Technical Electrical problems!!!

[bozno85]

Hi im new to the forum and to fiat's, I know some of these questions have been asked before within the forum but none seem to fit my problems exactly so id like to explain in more details to see if i can get any advice/help.

Yesterday I bought a fiat punto, active, 1.2, 16 valve on an 03 plate, when i first viewed the car i noticed that the red steering light was on, but the steering still felt very light, when i pushed the "city" button the city light came on but made no difference to the feel of steering but i thought nothing of it as i was warned they suffer this problem but they are usually easy to fix by soldering or new motor etc...
When i went to pick the car up and started to drive after a few turns of the steering wheel the steering became much more tough, i then tried to press the city button but this time the city light on the dash did not show up and again made no difference to the feel of steering. At one point the steering went light again but the city button still didnt work then after a few turns it went stiff again.

As i continued to drive i also noticed that the speedo doesnt work at all it stays stuck on 0, and also the engine warning light is on as well, at some points its solid but over the short distance i drove i did notice while i was moving it started to "blink" then would go solid once i stopped, my house wasnt far so just got home and parked up and have not really had the time to look at it or to see if other warning lights are on due to weather and having a child to look after. I will of course update if i gain any other information when i get to have a look.
For now though i was just wondering if anyone had any ideas how to sort my problems, if they may be connected problems or seperate issues etc... The engine does seem to run fine no noises or anything doesnt seem like it was under powered or struggling though i cant be 100% sure if its under powered as i never drove it before the problems but personally i would say it was fine in that respect.

 

[Brendan W]

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/342594-help-my-power-steering-light-start-here.html

Have a read of this for starters.
Welcome to the Forum btw.

 

[Ziggy122]

An active setup with the 16v engine? Thats odd as the actives are 8v iirc


The symptoms you describe arr a vss (vehicle speed sensor) failure
Because the power steering cant see how fast your going it doesn't know how to assist / how much to assist

it needs code readimg to confirm my seat diagnosis

Ziggy

 

[bozno85]

Have a read of this for starters.
Welcome to the Forum btw.

I have already read this but as my problems were not solely the steering fault i wanted to make a post just in case the few problems i have were some how connected, thanks for pointing it out though obviously you wasnt to know i had read it

 

[bozno85]

An active setup with the 16v engine? Thats odd as the actives are 8v iirc


The symptoms you describe arr a vss (vehicle speed sensor) failure
Because the power steering cant see how fast your going it doesn't know how to assist / how much to assist

it needs code reading to confirm my seat diagnosis

Ziggy

What you are saying does in a way make sense BUT if it were only the speed sensor causing the steering fault then wouldn't the "city" indication light still come on when i pressed the button? I thought the fact the light didn't come on may point to a more serious problem.
I of course intend to check the speed sensor wiring and plugs etc.. tomorrow when my daughter is at school and will likely replace it if i cant get it to work but i have the itching feeling that it wont solve the steering problem as well though i could of course be wrong.
I do also have an OBD2 reader on its way so i can do the diagnostics myself as i have the program for it obviously till thats delivered i cant gain any fault codes i will update once i have them.

As for the part about the 16 valve, my insurance shows it up as a 16 valve. the engine says its a 16 valve too, the body and the V5 have "active" on it so thats all im going by.

 

[Ziggy122]

8v engine looks like this

The 16v looks like this

----------------

Ignore the City light - this is a red herring, when ever the red light comes on from experience, the city light activating the light doesn't give you any enhancement
Why? the red lights saying there is a system failure somewhere

Why would it let you boost performance if there is a fault?

Also please note
The ABS / Airbag / Powersteering units need adaptor cables to work with the corrosponding above

Unless its a super clever setup - it wont work on anything except the engine management

The reason why i say you need a code read - as there are some mk2 punto's need a modification loom to make the VSS work again

Ziggy

 

[PuntoHowTo]

An active setup with the 16v engine? Thats odd as the actives are 8v iirc

You recall incorrectly there are plenty of 16v actives



Anyway it does sound like its speed sensor related, speed sensor as Ziggy pointed out feeds in to the steering to alter the rate of assistance depending on speed, obviously this also feeds into the dash for the speedo etc

Your diagnostic machine might be able to read the engine ecu which may have picked up a fault with the vehicle speed sensor. But to read the steering ecu or more you need something a bit more advanced than a hand held unit

 

[Ziggy122]

active sports come as 16v's
but not the actives, unless OP did mean the Active sport

Ziggy

 

[bozno85]

i was outside today having a fiddle and a look around checked lots of fuses all seem fine, i checked the speed sensor and could see nothing visible wrong so its either completely gone inside or is a wiring problem elsewhere, I gave the power steering motor wires some wriggles and knocked it a few times the power steering seems to of come back as its gone light again and so far seems to of stayed that way "so far" the red light has stayed on but when i push the city button the light now comes back on but makes no change to the feel of the steering.
I popped in to a fiat dealer to ask how much it would be for a diagnostics on the steering and to change the speed sensor which they wanted silly money for so back to doing it by myself.

I have noticed another warning light that keeps coming up and going off again, it looks like an yellow/orange lightbulb with an ! in the middle of it i assumed it meant i have a bulb out but i have checked all lights including the brakes and all seem fine so i dont know why the warning light comes and goes, I have also noticed my handbrake warning light comes on now and again but i think that may just be because my front pads are pretty low.

The car does run fine no engine problems at all as drove around a little today.

 

[bozno85]

it will not let me post any links but i have found other punto active, 1.2 16v's, also my insurance and the fiat dealer told me mine was an active 16v and not an active sport, the sports are usually 3 doors mine is 5.

I have also found a site with a list ill try and break up the link to see if it will post it, if you look in the active list (2nd lot down) you will see there is both an active 8V and 16V.

parkers .co. uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/fiat/punto/hatchback-2003/

 

[bozno85]

The other day i got my ECU reader, as expected i had the p0500 VSS error, i cleared them it made no difference and after a short time the error came back, Today i have been out there again i have replaced the VSS and i checked its plug and as much of the wiring i could trace with as far as i could see no problems so i took her for a quick test spin and still no speedo at all.

Any other ideas as to what can cause my speedo not to work? this is very important of course the speedo is the first thing i want to get fixed. ANYONE PLEASE HELP

 

[oXRUSSXo]

The other day i got my ECU reader, as expected i had the p0500 VSS error, i cleared them it made no difference and after a short time the error came back, Today i have been out there again i have replaced the VSS and i checked its plug and as much of the wiring i could trace with as far as i could see no problems so i took her for a quick test spin and still no speedo at all.

Any other ideas as to what can cause my speedo not to work? this is very important of course the speedo is the first thing i want to get fixed. ANYONE PLEASE HELP

Are all your speedo needles at 0 fuel included?

 

[oXRUSSXo]

i was outside today having a fiddle and a look around checked lots of fuses all seem fine, i checked the speed sensor and could see nothing visible wrong so its either completely gone inside or is a wiring problem elsewhere, I gave the power steering motor wires some wriggles and knocked it a few times the power steering seems to of come back as its gone light again and so far seems to of stayed that way "so far" the red light has stayed on but when i push the city button the light now comes back on but makes no change to the feel of the steering.
I popped in to a fiat dealer to ask how much it would be for a diagnostics on the steering and to change the speed sensor which they wanted silly money for so back to doing it by myself.

I have noticed another warning light that keeps coming up and going off again, it looks like an yellow/orange lightbulb with an ! in the middle of it i assumed it meant i have a bulb out but i have checked all lights including the brakes and all seem fine so i dont know why the warning light comes and goes, I have also noticed my handbrake warning light comes on now and again but i think that may just be because my front pads are pretty low.

The car does run fine no engine problems at all as drove around a little today.

Could the warning light be the bulb malfunction warning. But I suppose if there was an earth problem then it wouldn't cause an issue with the speed sensor would it ?

 

[bozno85]

Are all your speedo needles at 0 fuel included?

No mate all other needles seem to work fine, temperature and fuel gauge both work fine. I dont know if its just my eyes but when i turn the ignition on it does seem like the speedo needle moves like 1mm upwards just so it sits on the 0 more flush but other than that it still perfectly still

 

[oXRUSSXo]

If this was me personally I would take the car back to who you purchased it from and try to get a refund because you've had the car 5/6 days and nobody expects these problems in that amount of time. Unless did you purchase it knowing all these faults existed?

If it was a garage who you purchased it from and they refuse to have it back I would be straight on the phone to citizens advice.

It will be a pain to sort out but by the looks of how these faults are developing your going to fall down a big hole and the only way to get out of it is to throw alot of money at it.

 

[bozno85]

Could the warning light be the bulb malfunction warning. But I suppose if there was an earth problem then it wouldn't cause an issue with the speed sensor would it ?

I have been told that the little lightbulb warning light is supposed to tell you when you have a bulb out but apparently it can also be cause by a slightly loose bulb or a bad earth but no this part of the system i doubt would mess with the speedo although i could be wrong.

 

[Ziggy122]

I have been told that the little lightbulb warning light is supposed to tell you when you have a bulb out but apparently it can also be cause by a slightly loose bulb or a bad earth but no this part of the system i doubt would mess with the speedo although i could be wrong.

If bulb is slightly loose - it'll
A - not work correctly (dim)
B - Not work at all

which the system will pick up as there been tooo little of a draw been made!

So the bulb malfunction warning is telling you have a bulb malfunction
If your unsure - check out the basic guide i've made for you / these instances


These should not affect the dash clocks at all tho - unless there is some serious BSI issues

Ziggy

 

[oXRUSSXo]

If bulb is slightly loose - it'll
A - not work correctly (dim)
B - Not work at all

which the system will pick up as there been tooo little of a draw been made!

So the bulb malfunction warning is telling you have a bulb malfunction
If your unsure - check out the basic guide i've made for you / these instances


These should not affect the dash clocks at all tho - unless there is some serious BSI issues

Ziggy

I personally think its alot more than the speed sensor. Because the speedo isn't working, handbrake light flickers, power steering and the bulb malfunction light

Maybe you could take it to a Fiat specialist or even a Punto specialist.

I know of one in Doncaster www.puntospares.com and one in Staffordshire www.puntoman.com

Perhaps they can diagnose and sort it for you. Or even if you phone them and explain what's wrong they may be able to help

 

[bozno85]

I personally think its alot more than the speed sensor. Because the speedo isn't working, handbrake light flickers, power steering and the bulb malfunction light

Maybe you could take it to a Fiat specialist or even a Punto specialist.

I know of one in Doncaster www.puntospares.com and one in Staffordshire www.puntoman.com

Perhaps they can diagnose and sort it for you. Or even if you phone them and explain what's wrong they may be able to help

the handbrake warning light has been solved that was just my brake fluid getting low, The bulb warning light i do believe is just a loose connection some where as i was going over all the wires and now the warning light only flicks on for a few seconds now and again and no longer stays on for minutes at a time so i think its just a case of tracking down exactly which wire is loose.

i have tried a few things to get my speed sensor working but to no avail though i have now also got an error code saying p0300 which is an apparent misfire it certainly doesnt feel as though thats happening and i have been told that it all may actually be due to an ECU failure rather than anything else not working, but i was not told which of the many ECU's it could actually be correct me if im wrong but its my understanding there is and engine ECU, a body ECU, An airbag ECU and a power steering ECU?

 

[Ziggy122]

the handbrake warning light has been solved that was just my brake fluid getting low, The bulb warning light i do believe is just a loose connection some where as i was going over all the wires and now the warning light only flicks on for a few seconds now and again and no longer stays on for minutes at a time so i think its just a case of tracking down exactly which wire is loose.

i have tried a few things to get my speed sensor working but to no avail though i have now also got an error code saying p0300 which is an apparent misfire it certainly doesnt feel as though thats happening and i have been told that it all may actually be due to an ECU failure rather than anything else not working, but i was not told which of the many ECU's it could actually be correct me if im wrong but its my understanding there is and engine ECU, a body ECU, An airbag ECU and a power steering ECU?

Yea there are several ecus over the car

The engine ecu does speed if you dont have abs
If you have abs, the abs ecu provides the info and passes it onto the body computer via canbus


Ziggy