Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[Serrow225]

Hi all, quick update as it's been a few days. I'm still without a dongle, have given up on the first one I ordered (over a week ago) and bought from a different supplier today. I would avoid this seller on ebay: cwautodiagnostics - absolutely useless, no tracking information and they don't respond to messages.

In the meantime, I fitted a new MAP on Saturday and took the van for a quick drive. Still the same, turbo not working. Turned round after a few hundred metres and came back. Scanned with my cheapo OBD reader - no codes, but the van hadn't gone into limp mode as I was out for such a short time.

Turbo Electro Valve / Solenoid has arrived today so I will fit that shortly and try another quick test drive for what it's worth.

I've got some Miller's additive ready to go and will be filling up with premium fuel as per Fred's recommendations, once I have enough confidence in the van to get me a few miles to a petrol station that is.

As the ECU has obviously decided to shut off the turbo, will I need to clear / activate something with the MultiEcuScan to tell it to work again? In it's current state I would struggle to perform the tests required once I have the dongle / software.

I am currently in same situation, had all the obvious little bits changed, we went away in van this weekend, and the final straw was getting limp mode on A12 on a fast section, van was flat out at 20mph with no hard shoulder .. at that point we went home with just a ignition reset , will sort out multiecuscan tonight and have a garage visit booked.. as I just don't trust it now , hopefully we both get to the bottom of issue,

 

[Fredastaire]

@Serrow225 , we went out yesterday visiting NT and EH country houses; on the way did a 20 minute live data capture and at tea time emailed the csv file to @theoneandonly. In the evening I received back various graphs and brief notes. I can see the correct actions of various devices including the LP EGR and it's cooler, it's still working fine giving high temperatures and clearly to be seen doing it's blend of mixing clean airfilter air with recycled exhaust gas. I had my cooler changed circa 18 months back. This is the beauty of using Multiecuscan because it shows much more than a plain fault code reader. I do hope you can get on with data capture and trust we can help you get to the root of your problems.

 

[ben360]

@ben360 relative to changing parts, they need to be OEM and not aftermarket. The map needs to be official Bosch AND you may need to speak with Bosch UK , quoting your engine number to establish the exact part number. There are a quantity of known cases whereby a wrong Bosch part number was factory fitted. Also for the turbo solenoid it needs to be genuine and not aftermarket, real ones have a tiny air filter on a pipe that clips high up towards the screen to avoid sucking water drips. Reference the cable adapter I would recommend buying direct from Gendan, many people buy the package from Gendan inc software and license noting that Gendan supply two cables in their kit, one allows you to read the other Ducato modules other than the engine. I've just helped two other people with different problems to this 0401 post; they had mysterious multiple faults, it turned out to be vibration scuffed sensor cables where the copper wires were showing and being able to intermittently short out - might be worth an overall visual investigation.

Thanks Fred, all noted, I've sourced the correct Bosch MAP with help from @theoneandonly, my van had the wrong one from new! Solenoid is also OEM and has the air filter. I've done the best visual inspection I can, I was thinking that a mouse might have chewed something as there was some disintegrated rubber sleeving near the bonnet catch but all the wires that I can see look ok and there's no other signs of animal activity. I've already gone for another ebay dongle but this one has multiple connectors so should be able to do everything I need. Fingers crossed it turns up promptly as I am running out of time to sort this before our first trip away on 7th May!

 

[Serrow225]

@Serrow225 , we went out yesterday visiting NT and EH country houses; on the way did a 20 minute live data capture and at tea time emailed the csv file to @theoneandonly. In the evening I received back various graphs and brief notes. I can see the correct actions of various devices including the LP EGR and it's cooler, it's still working fine giving high temperatures and clearly to be seen doing it's blend of mixing clean airfilter air with recycled exhaust gas. I had my cooler changed circa 18 months back. This is the beauty of using Multiecuscan because it shows much more than a plain fault code reader. I do hope you can get on with data capture and trust we can help you get to the root of your problems.

Yep now the system has been explained to me , I totally get what's going on .
I got under van to see what how it works ( in theory ) and how the system gradually gets worse as soot is feed through 2 nd EGR loop.my biggest fear now is the DPF is not capturing particle, due to the original software over fueling and has it cracked the matrix inside DPF ...
Hindsight is a wonderful thing if only I knew then when I bought van , a finger in exhaust pipe and sooty powder... I'd walk away

 

[Fredastaire]

@Serrow225 , please take note that mine is also sooty. My data capture runs yesterday shows the cooler to be working fine still. I guess it depends upon how cracked the DPF element is. You do need to note that I only buy the expensive diesel AND dose it with millers. HOWEVER I have no technical proof that what I'm doing on fuel is correct and, has any effect, im just wanting best combustion to delay repeat blocking. To exchange a cooler periodically is still cheaper than buying a new DPF. Noting that you can clean the removed cooler for re-use by the simple expedient of caustic.
If you are to use a non Fiat garage to change the cooler then you could consider to buy a second hand cooler from eBay. I can provide the correct part number if needed.
With Multiecuscan connected you do need to know that you have software 28 or 32. We think 32 is for comfortmatic models.

 

[Serrow225]

@Serrow225 , please take note that mine is also sooty. My data capture runs yesterday shows the cooler to be working fine still. I guess it depends upon how cracked the DPF element is. You do need to note that I only buy the expensive diesel AND dose it with millers. HOWEVER I have no technical proof that what I'm doing on fuel is correct and, has any effect, im just wanting best combustion to delay repeat blocking. To exchange a cooler periodically is still cheaper than buying a new DPF. Noting that you can clean the removed cooler for re-use by the simple expedient of caustic.
If you are to use a non Fiat garage to change the cooler then you could consider to buy a second hand cooler from eBay. I can provide the correct part number if needed.
With Multiecuscan connected you do need to know that you have software 28 or 32. We think 32 is for comfortmatic models.

Agree that switching to super diesel can only help in our situation, I'm stuck with FP garage for now ,as I've spent a lot of cash with no improvement,so want to keep on at them . They did update so I'm sure its v32 ,I noticed after update, van seems to hold gear a little longer and not short shift,I suppose to get temperature,gas flows up quicker during warm up etc ( when you got a clear EGR cooler)I'm fortunately in a position to replace DPF if I have to ,as my company allocated some shares during a buy out which I can cash in and use to get van sorted admittedly through gritted teeth. I invested in motorhome as a long term thing so I just want it reliable and enjoy it , without looking at the dash every time it changes gear

 

[ben360]

So, solenoid now fitted, managed to limp to my local garage and filled up with Shell V-Power Diesel, there's a first time for everything!
Turbo still inoperative and went in to limp mode pretty quick as I was on a main road so had to go a bit faster than I have been on country lanes. Quick scan on return and the 236, 236P, 238 and 238P codes are still there.

Once I have Multiecuscan working will I be able to clear these codes and will that enable the turbo to work again (assuming the turbo itself is OK?)

 

[Fredastaire]

@Serrow225, as your garage are possibly working a little blind on the problem might I suggest you nudge them to investigate factory exchange DPF and cooler. I think from reading elsewhere that the service dept can get service exchange rebuilt items. I asked my FP parts guy however he didn't have any knowledge. If you can get service exchange it would help if you could get a detailed invoice with part numbers for us.

 

[Serrow225]

@Serrow225, as your garage are possibly working a little blind on the problem might I suggest you nudge them to investigate factory exchange DPF and cooler. I think from reading elsewhere that the service dept can get service exchange rebuilt items. I asked my FP parts guy however he didn't have any knowledge. If you can get service exchange it would help if you could get a detailed invoice with part numbers for us.

Ok I will find out, I got to wait till 15th may , till it's looked at , they seem to obviously prioritise there fleet lorry customers, bigger wallets!!!

 

[Fredastaire]

@ben360 yes you can clear codes. Then you need to do a data run to @theoneandonly template 4 and email it over. This should clarify the next step..

 

[ben360]

Brill, thanks Fred. As soon as the dongle arrives I will crack on.

 

[ben360]

Can I just check one other thing please, going back to my theory about a mouse getting into the engine compartment, does this look normal on the attached pic?? Should it be covered? Looks like it's been nibbled?

 

[theoneandonly]

Can I just check one other thing please, going back to my theory about a mouse getting into the engine compartment, does this look normal on the attached pic?? Should it be covered? Looks like it's been nibbled?

yep thats been nibbled should be closed/covered. have a search they may be symtoms and a thread covering it right now i suffering black death and cant think

 

[ben360]

Thought so, bloody critters!! I've sealed it now, could be an easy fix?? Have found another thread where a chap had the same issue and it threw up a P0238. I'll clear the codes once the dongle arrives and do the test run to get the data. Hope you feel better soon @Oneandonly.

 

[Fredastaire]

@ben360 if pipes are nibbled and/ or cracked you will have lost the vacuum. No vacuum = no turbo actuator operation.

 

[ben360]

@ben360 if pipes are nibbled and/ or cracked you will have lost the vacuum. No vacuum = no turbo actuator operation.

Thanks Fred, the pipes are fine, it's this that probably caused the issue:

Have sealed it now and looking forward to being able to clear the codes so I can see if it's back to normal now.

Assuming (and I'm getting ahead of myself here, I know) that was the problem all along I'm still glad I've changed the MAP and the solenoid. Will be good to let @theoneandonly loose with the data too in case there's any other problems lurking. The tip about premium diesel and additives is also very wise and I will be sticking with that from now on.

So clearly that's me jinxed now that I've said all that!! I'll call Fiat in the morning and reserve a pair of EGR systems

 

[ben360]

Evening all, quick update, original dongle finally arrived today, got talking to the ECU, cleared the codes and hey presto! the turbo blows again!!

I captured enough info I hope for the more learned amongst us to advise if I need to get my software updated? Screenshots attached.

I'm going to tax the van as of 1st May so I will go for a proper drive and gather the full data then.

Thank you to @Fredastaire and @theoneandonly for your help thus far, to have a van that runs normally again is very reassuring.

 

[Fredastaire]

I rather think you are in need of software update, if it's manual expect V28; if comfortmatic then V32. ( That's what we Believe are up to date).The question is how to persuade your dealer to do it. I've heard of a case where the dealer only updated if Fiat allow / instruct it.
Let's see what @theoneandonly finds from the csv file.

 

[theoneandonly]

I rather think you are in need of software update, if it's manual expect V28; if comfortmatic then V32. ( That's what we Believe are up to date).The question is how to persuade your dealer to do it. I've heard of a case where the dealer only updated if Fiat allow / instruct it.
Let's see what @theoneandonly finds from the csv file.

at v23 It definitely needs an update. As to Fiat not wanting to do it without a error code, we now have a way of creating a P2036,0238 at will. Trouble is there is a feeling there are scroupelous and not so out there (i think one group may not be fiat pro any more). Is there a known easy way to create a P0401 (not blocking a lpegr cooler).
ps i cant see any csv files. the other thing id like to see is number of programmings was 23 your original or one earlier.
this is my orig template 9 to copy a number of the slow moving variables eg injector codes

 

[Fredastaire]

401 is set when the LP EGR opens to 4.7(ish), in this position it has closed off the fresh air from the air filter, at this point the software gives a stupidly impossible demand for airflow from the HP EGR, then it triggers 401, (meaning the engine is strangled)
.
With this in mind I wonder if, with van stationary, foot on throttle to make the LP EGR work, then get an assistant to blocking off the inlet pipe of the air filter thus strangling the engine. Just a guess......(You couldn't do it with foot off as the LP EGR would be switched inactive).