General Cost of swapping engines?

[ChrisSMJ]

Hello, happy owner of a 2010 1.1 Active Eco here, have been driving her for the last couple of years as only passed my driving test in 2021 (late 50s, late starter )

Aside from a couple of quirks (temperamental L indicator; power steering occasionally fails to kick in from a standing start) she's in surprisingly good nick and has done less than 80,000 miles.

Overtaking lorries etc on motorways can take a few seconds longer than I'd like; I realise she's maybe more of a city car, but... I was wondering how much it would cost me to have a new/bigger engine fitted?
Apologies if there are already threads about this, I've searched, and found people talking about their projects, putting a Punto 1.2 (or even 1.4?) engine into a Panda Mk.3, and I can see s/h engines are available under a grand. But does anyone have a rough idea of what the labour costs might be?
i.e. is it worth it, or would I be better off doing a part-ex and buying a bigger car?

When I was younger I would happily tinker with small motorbikes and scooters but (as may be obvious!) I know naff all about cars, so as much as I'd like to undertake an engine swap project myself it's not realistic.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[koalar]

The difference on the flat isn't huge between the panda 1.1 and 1.2 I have had both here in Cheshire

Can it be done yes, would I do it, no

Can you fine someone to do it for you
Probably not

Can you do it yourself
We don't know your skill level, two computers have to be spliced together, you need, you need to be able to read and understand circuit diagrames, the 1.1 eco has different sensors, coil pack, wiring and engine computer to the 1.2 eco

How much
A lot, even if doing it yourself. Engine, diagnostic equipment and so on, being modified the insurance will be higher than just going out and buying a 1.2

Far better to start with a faster car, if you love the panda there is the rare 1.4 100hp

Or a multijet which is very tunable

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi

We had 14 years in a 1.1

Replaced with a twinair turbo panda

60 bhp to 85 bhp..

Moving to something a bit more powerful..

The £0 / £30 tax bracket is worth sticking with

My 2018 500 is still poor compared to a twinair but is £170 VED.. the twinair is FREE


Not worth meddling with yours !!

 

[koalar]

The £0 / £30 tax bracket is worth sticking with

Good point, well made, which I forgot about


That's exactly why I don’t fix the 05 and 06 Pandas but swapped for two £30 cars a couple of years ago

It soon Adds up over the years

 

[jrkitching]

The £0 / £30 tax bracket is worth sticking with

As is the ability to use it in an ultra low emissions zones without paying the daily charge.

I'd say that any low tax band car that's ULEZ compliant is going to retain quite a high residual value, providing it's still roadworthy and has no major mechanical faults. As long as you can keep it running, it's also unlikely to depreciate further, at least until the rules change.

 

[jrkitching]

I've searched, and found people talking about their projects, putting a Punto 1.2 (or even 1.4?) engine into a Panda Mk.3, and I can see s/h engines are available under a grand. But does anyone have a rough idea of what the labour costs might be?
i.e. is it worth it, or would I be better off doing a part-ex and buying a bigger car?

This is a project which should only be considered by someone with the skills, tools and facilities to do all of the work themselves, and even they would be well advised to forget it.

As has already been said, it would be both cheaper and easier to just buy another car. ULEZ compliance and £35 tax mean that a 1.1 Active will likely command a reasonable price if sold privately.

Just be aware that practically any other car is going to cost you more to run; the £35 RFL 1.1/1.2 Pandas have just about the lowest per mile costs of any car you can buy.

 

[jrkitching]

The difference on the flat isn't huge between the panda 1.1 and 1.2

I'd agree with this.

I've driven them both back to back when they were new. The biggest difference is that the extra torque of the 1.2 makes it more flexible; you can drive it in 5th at a lower speed than the 1.1. This makes it more comfortable to drive in traffic and in 30mph restricted areas; most of the time, you can just put it into top gear and leave it there. On paper, fuel economy is much the same, and if you drive it hard, that's likely what you'll see. Driven gently, the greater flexibility gives the 1.2 the edge on economy; with the 1.1, you'll be making more gear changes to compensate for the reduced torque. At higher speeds, you likely won't notice much difference.

Today, any 1.1 will be 13+ years old (the 1.1 was discontinued in 2010). I'd sum up the difference thus: If you haven't already bought one, try to get a 1.2 if you can; if you've already purchased a 1.1, the extra power/torque isn't enough of a difference to justify the cost/risk of changing.

 

[ChrisSMJ]

Thank you to everyone who's replied, this is all helpful advice and has helped me to conclude I'm best off leaving well alone.

What I might gain in speed / power (which is rarely a problem anyway) I'd lose out in tax (currently just £35) and fuel consumption. Currently I'm ULEZ compliant (north London) so that would be another factor, a could a 1.4 Punto engine transplant put me into the ULEZ payment category (think it needs to be EU rating 4 or higher to avoid it?)

As for an engine swap-out project for me to do myself, sadly no way, my skills in this area are non-existent. Vespa and Kawasaki two-stroke bikes more my skillset

So a car mechanic's labour costs would push the price up... there is a good guy nearby who wold charge a fair price so I could speculatively ask him, but I think it's a no go.

Alternatively, there's a chance I could legitimately access two parking spaces in the off-road car park where I live, and I'll have to research whether this counts as exempt road tax) but I'm tempted to buy a cheapie s/hand 1.4 Punto just to try it out. Pay the tax, a week's insurance, see the difference!

Suspect I'd still prefer my dear old Panda, all that room in the back when I put the seats down, ideal for a visit to the garden centre...and its big old boulders
oo

 

[AndyRKett]

Any petrol or car registered after 2005 is going to be Euro 4 compliant so as long as any replacement car is newer than this then you should have no problems with ULEZ as long as you steer clear of diesel's as they need to be Euro 6 compliant (post september 2015.

Really given the costs involved in swapping an engine, the headaches involved and the possible insurance complications. It would be far easier (if you really like your current panda) to look for a similar aged 100hp Panda.

I would not really recomened going up to something like a Punto either as many of them have the same 1.2 or 1.4 litre engines of the panda, and really it is only the later model that had an option of the 1.4 multiair engine with more than 100hp. The sporting with 135bhp ? and the Abarth with 160hp ? something along those lines, otherwise they were much the same in power as the panda but with more weight.

Small cheap fiats are loved for there small cheapness but are rarely famed for their speed.

 

[varesecrazy]

A punto requires a fair power to drag its heavy body around..

1.2 is slow..1.4 is thirsty

Diesels are ok.. but Mr Khan isn't a fan..

Twinair.. probably not in London


Stick with your
Good Cheap car

 

[ChrisSMJ]

A punto requires a fair power to drag its heavy body around..

1.2 is slow..1.4 is thirsty

Diesels are ok.. but Mr Khan isn't a fan..

Twinair.. probably not in London


Stick with your
Good Cheap car

Thanks - yes, I've decided I'll stick with my Panda. The advantages of its £35 a year tax and its surprisingly low (to me, anyway) fuel consumption outweigh any disadvantages. Anyway, it's not as it's unable to overtake lorries on a motorway, it's just that my poor little Panda struggles to do so. But as I understand it, this model in particular was intended as a city car, so I can't complain. I love her really!

 

[ChrisSMJ]

Any petrol or car registered after 2005 is going to be Euro 4 compliant so as long as any replacement car is newer than this then you should have no problems with ULEZ as long as you steer clear of diesel's as they need to be Euro 6 compliant (post september 2015.

Really given the costs involved in swapping an engine, the headaches involved and the possible insurance complications. It would be far easier (if you really like your current panda) to look for a similar aged 100hp Panda.

I would not really recomened going up to something like a Punto either as many of them have the same 1.2 or 1.4 litre engines of the panda, and really it is only the later model that had an option of the 1.4 multiair engine with more than 100hp. The sporting with 135bhp ? and the Abarth with 160hp ? something along those lines, otherwise they were much the same in power as the panda but with more weight.

Small cheap fiats are loved for there small cheapness but are rarely famed for their speed.

Agreed - I've come round to understanding this (your last sentence in particular) thanks to yours and others' helpful posts on here.
£35 a year tax is a big advantage, as is the fuel consumption, been to the Norfolk coast and back from North London without having to refuel - and still having a few litres remaining in the tank, superb. I love my Panda!