Technical Clutch replacement

[blu73]

yeah sorry confusion is prob my fault for calling the inner boots CV boots, but yeah as Ziggy says you can leave the outer boot and hubnut and everything in situ, just take the two bolts that hold the hub to the bottom of the shock and then pull the top of the hub outward and the shaft will fall out the cup on the diff. And on the other side just remove the clip that holds the boot on and when you drop the box off the shaft will come out the cup on the other side...

 

[varesecrazy]

yeah sorry confusion is prob my fault for calling the inner boots CV boots, but yeah as Ziggy says you can leave the outer boot and hubnut and everything in situ, just take the two bolts that hold the hub to the bottom of the shock and then pull the top of the hub outward and the shaft will fall out the cup on the diff. And on the other side just remove the clip that holds the boot on and when you drop the box off the shaft will come out the cup on the other side...

that's the method I've always used on Little FIAT's,

biggest tip is undoing the front strut bolts (x2) then you can swing the hub around for disconnecting the driveshafts


Manifold.. not sure that's necessary.., IF you need to move the Motor THAT much,
I would break the joint at rear of sump,
and pivot whole engine as an assembly,

Charlie

 

[Ziggy122]

that's the method I've always used on Little FIAT's,

biggest tip is undoing the front strut bolts (x2) then you can swing the hub around for disconnecting the driveshafts


Manifold.. not sure that's necessary.., IF you need to move the Motor THAT much,
I would break the joint at rear of sump,
and pivot whole engine as an assembly,

Charlie

I had my exhaust mani off on my last one because I knew itd come off easy
But theb I could get a good purchase on sump for holidng it up


Ziggy

 

[judderbar]

I have been thru the thread a few times now. I am assuming that when the gear box is pulled from the engine there is sufficient movement to get the engine drive shaft to drop off the cup without undoing the engine side strut bolts and pulling that outwards?

What about reassembly though? Does the gear box have to begin going back on the engine before you begin putting the engine drive shaft on? I would want the gear box to be in a safe position before I begin putting the drive shaft back in to avoid injury or contamination. Will it be easier for me to undo the bolts on both struts and get both drive shafts out before working on the gear box?

By the way, I noticed Haynes is talking about an outer and an inner CV joint, and making it clear they are referring to the tripod and three bearings as the inner CV.

 

[AndyRKett]

Definitely don't try to wressle the gearbox back on the engine at the same time as pushing the drive shaft back into the gear box, you can damage the oil seals in the gearbox and make your life a whole lot harder.

As I said earlier in the thread a friend of mine and specialist mechanic, undid the hub nuts dropped both drive shafts out of the hubs and left the drive shafts attached to the gearbox throughout the clutch change, no splitting CV joints no risk of contamination in the gearbox and the hub nuts were replaced very inexpensively.

 

[judderbar]

Definitely don't try to wressle the gearbox back on the engine at the same time as pushing the drive shaft back into the gear box, you can damage the oil seals in the gearbox and make your life a whole lot harder.

As I said earlier in the thread a friend of mine and specialist mechanic, undid the hub nuts dropped both drive shafts out of the hubs and left the drive shafts attached to the gearbox throughout the clutch change, no splitting CV joints no risk of contamination in the gearbox and the hub nuts were replaced very inexpensively.

Thanks AndyRKett, I am very interested in how your friend did that job. Given that everybody else here is not doing it that way i need some more information as to how to do it.

The alternative way leaves part of each drive shaft on the gearbox so the seals are left alone - there is still the risk of contamination of the inner CV joints.

 

[Twotoncarman]

from Left to right
There is the hub nut attached to the outer joint Aka CV joint
Then there is the driveshaft
The driveshaft goes into the Differential cup / output cup / drive cup
The rubber gaitor on that is what people are simply unclipping and pulling off
Inside is whats called a tripod bearing 3 bearings on a triangular setup basically

Ziggy

The inner joint is also a CV joint. It is simply referred to as the inner CV Joint.
It is not known as a 'cup', just for your future reference.
As others have said, it is extremely bad practice to separate them for a clutch replacement.
A back street bodger type of job.

 

[judderbar]

The inner joint is also a CV joint. It is simply referred to as the inner CV Joint.
It is not known as a 'cup', just for your future reference.
As others have said, it is extremely bad practice to separate them for a clutch replacement.
A back street bodger type of job.

Had i known that a bearing cup or cup is a commonly used term by engineers I might not have got so muddled up earlier.

The tripod bearing is a roller bearing that needs an outer race to work. The outer race of a ball bearing is also known as the cup.

The post did not say the inner joint was a cup.

However the entire assembly must be a drive shaft so it does not seem right to say the drive shaft fits into the differential cup

 

[AndyRKett]

Unbolt lower arms from subframe
Unbolt hub nuts - pull suspension struts out sideways to allow the drive shafts out of the hubs and let them hang

Unbolt slave cylinder and disconnect selector cables (may need to remove battery and tray for access
Unbolt and earth wires etc from gearbox

Unbolt gearbox and slide away from engine

I believe that's most of what's required, I've never done it on a petrol only a diesel

And be sure to use lots of plus gas on all the bolts several times leading up to doing the work especially the roll bar bushes as these really really like to sheer off

 

[judderbar]

Unbolt lower arms from subframe
Unbolt hub nuts - pull suspension struts out sideways to allow the drive shafts out of the hubs and let them hang

Unbolt slave cylinder and disconnect selector cables (may need to remove battery and tray for access
Unbolt and earth wires etc from gearbox

Unbolt gearbox and slide away from engine

I believe that's most of what's required, I've never done it on a petrol only a diesel

And be sure to use lots of plus gas on all the bolts several times leading up to doing the work especially the roll bar bushes as these really really like to sheer off

Sounds a bit risky just to try and save a few hours work.

 

[AndyRKett]

It is already beginning to sound like it could get very depressing if something breaks and I am only up on axel stands using a drill while eating metal.

A lot of the bolts are stainless steal so make sure you have some colbat drill bits on hand just in case something sheers, normal drill bits won't touch them

 

[judderbar]

A lot of the bolts are stainless steal so make sure you have some colbat drill bits on hand just in case something sheers, normal drill bits won't touch them

Thanks for letting me know. If they are stainless steel I might just have a go at plus gasing mine and seeing if they will turn

My car does not have the kind of corrosion that seems common in the UK.

 

[Twotoncarman]

A lot of the bolts are stainless steal so make sure you have some colbat drill bits on hand just in case something sheers, normal drill bits won't touch them

Just out of interest, you can drill stainless of most grades with no problem without cobalt bits.
Simply use a very slow speed and lots of pressure !..
I am very surprised they are using Inox (Stainless) at all. Doesnt seem to be of value here.

I must add, your videos and guides are a credit to you. ! well done.:worship:

 

[AndyRKett]

Just out of interest, you can drill stainless of most grades with no problem without cobalt bits.
Simply use a very slow speed and lots of pressure !..
I am very surprised they are using Inox (Stainless) at all. Doesnt seem to be of value here.

I must add, your videos and guides are a credit to you. ! well done.:worship:

Am speaking from experiance. You get a start but the heat quickly builds and the stainless hardens you then will drill no further

 

[Twotoncarman]

Am speaking from experiance. You get a start but the heat quickly builds and the stainless hardens you then will drill no further

Me two, lots of experience, but I never had an issue. When I say slow speed, I mean slow. 60 to 120 rpm. I have drilled 10mm plate 304 (A2) with no issues at all on standard bits. Most is the technique.

 

[AndyRKett]

Me two, lots of experience, but I never had an issue. When I say slow speed, I mean slow. 60 to 120 rpm. I have drilled 10mm plate 304 (A2) with no issues at all on standard bits. Most is the technique.

You're being somewhat pedantic, most domestic drills do not offer any level of control, its all or nothing, In addition try laying on your back and drilling upward into the bottom of a car supported on axel stands, with very limited space, swaff falling in your face and no way to add coolant to the drill bit.

This is guerrilla engineering not precision, no room for careful considered technique, having proper tools to do the job will make life so much easier, and quicker and mean you have a car to drive to work the next day.

 

[Twotoncarman]

You're being somewhat pedantic, most domestic drills do not offer any level of control, its all or nothing, In addition try laying on your back and drilling upward into the bottom of a car supported on axel stands, with very limited space, swaff falling in your face and no way to add coolant to the drill bit.

This is guerrilla engineering not precision, no room for careful considered technique, having proper tools to do the job will make life so much easier, and quicker and mean you have a car to drive to work the next day.

It is very difficult to buy a drill with no speed control. - I have no idea where you buy yours...
There is no issue drilling stainless. Unless you also use a windy gun - which might explain why you snap bolts in the first place.
Proper tools includes a 'proper' drill. (AND the knowledge to use it correctly).

 

[judderbar]

It is very difficult to buy a drill with no speed control. - I have no idea where you buy yours...
There is no issue drilling stainless. Unless you also use a windy gun - which might explain why you snap bolts in the first place.
Proper tools includes a 'proper' drill. (AND the knowledge to use it correctly).

I have a fairly fancy 'professional' Bosche drill that i got for drilling a great many holes in granite. Naturally it has a speed control. There is no way I can use this drill at one to two revolutions per second while i am pressing enormously hard against the drill while holding the trigger. I would need a foot operated speed controller or something or other that I do not have yet..

Alternatively I can buy a cheap set of drills suitable for stainless and be done with it.

 

[AndyRKett]

It is very difficult to buy a drill with no speed control. - I have no idea where you buy yours...
There is no issue drilling stainless. Unless you also use a windy gun - which might explain why you snap bolts in the first place.
Proper tools includes a 'proper' drill. (AND the knowledge to use it correctly).

It's very easy to buy a drill with only trigger control which is for the most part about as accurate as knocking out a dent with a rock.

Why you really feel the need to kick off an argument about something so unimportant I'm not sure, if you like spending hours drilling a bolt out extra slowly then super duper you have fun with that. A colbalt bit will rip through that bolt In seconds and I don't have time to waste, neither do most people so that's the path I'll take and the one I would recomend.

Please post a video about how to drill holes with a "windy" gun

 

[Twotoncarman]

It's very easy to buy a drill with only trigger control which is for the most part about as accurate as knocking out a dent with a rock.

Why you really feel the need to kick off an argument about something so unimportant I'm not sure, if you like spending hours drilling a bolt out extra slowly then super duper you have fun with that. A colbalt bit will rip through that bolt In seconds and I don't have time to waste, neither do most people so that's the path I'll take and the one I would recomend.

Please post a video about how to drill holes with a "windy" gun

It seems to be you who is 'kicking off' . I am simply explaining something you are obviously not aware off. I also seriously doubt that ANY of the bolts are stainless steel, HT yes, but not stainless. It would appear your bolt shearing experiences are more the result of your brute force tactics.
In the unlikely event of a bolt shearing, then normal drill bits can be used perfectly well. Cobalt are better, yes, depending on the metal, but not using a windy gun like a Kwik Fit bodger is better too. Each to their own.