Technical Car pulling to one side when cornering

[Cinq999]

Last week I hit a pothole in my Panda. Going down a country lane, a car came flying round the bend in front, and so I had nowhere to go but right up to the hedge.....where a rather large pothole deflated my tyre.

I had 4 brand new tyres fitted at the garage, they needed changing anyway fortunately.

Tracking done, all good, or so I thought.

I now have an issue when going around left hand bends.

Say I'm doing 50mph round a left hand bend. I turn the steering wheel left, and it's fine.

However, if the bend gets slightly tighter, I turn the steering wheel a little more, all of a sudden, the front of the car will "hook" into the bend.

I can only describe it as feeling like its suddenly on rails. The front suddenly hooks up into the corner, and really feels like it's turning under its own influence. Then when i straighten up out of the bend, every now and again theres a little wobble, like you'd feel when towing and the trailer has a wobble.....whereas when I go round a right hand bend, it was as before......you can take bends and it feels solid, and you can "feel" the bend as you steer.

Like I say, if the left bend is not too sharp, it feels fine......just when it gets that little bit sharper, it suddenly hooks into the bend.

Has anyone got any ideas?

 

[irc]

Depends on how much of an effect you are feeling when it happens.
Firstly, I would check for a broken spring, or a damaged top mount. Both of these can give a notchy feeling to the steering, which could be enough to give the effect you describe.
Many more possibilities, but those two are the usual favourites for pothole damage that I come across.

 

[portland_bill]

Look carefully at the bottom arm mountings. Likely the rear one took the shock and may have detached its rubber, allowing it to flex under high stress. Check the front mounting as well.
Also check the steering track rod. If it is bent, the change in steering angles as you turn may not be linear.

 

[koalar]

How does the wheels look like in the wheel arches, do they look the same both sides.

 

[DaveMcT]

Worn or damaged bottom arm bushes will use the wheel to follow road grooves (tram-lining). Take in on a dual carriageway and see if the lane markings and over-banding affect the steering on either side.

(1) Look very closely at the track rod(s). Both inner and outer can be changed for minimal cost, though you do need a special tool to unscrew the inner.
(2) Check the subframe left to right where the bottom arms bolt into place.
(3) Check the rear subframe is straight. It's likely both wheels on the affected side took a hit.

 

[Cinq999]

Thanks all.

I took the wheels off and gave it a good look over this afternoon.

There was nothing obvious.....nothing looked different to the other side. Got a pry bar in and all the bushes and joints seemed solid enough....nothing moved that shouldn't.

So I thought I'd just run it over my Gunson Trackmate........the N/S front went off the scale on toe out, and the O/S went off the scale toe in.....so obviously severely biased to the left.......no idea what happened, as the garage were supposed to have done the tracking.

I adjusted it as best I could using the Trackmate......its around 1 degree toe out both sides now......and it feels much better. I'll be taking it back to the garage tomorrow to complain and get it done again!!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Sounds to me that whoever did the tracking at the garage had little idea what he/she was doing. Especially in a case like this we would have done a very thorough check over of all the steering and suspension components before even thinking of carrying out any adjustments. If nothing was found then checking the angles and adjusting as necessary. If it's then found that large adjustments are needed (sounds to be the case in this instance) it should be setting off all the alarm bells in the fitters head, and further investigations should be undertaken - could be not just bushes/track rod ends/etc but might be displaced (damaged) mounting points on the chassis. In situations like this where the vehicle was submitted with a ruined tyre/wheel and a "story", like your's, suggesting a heavy impact, our foreman would always extensively road test the car before handing it back to the owner.

 

[irc]

Agreed. Any obvious damage SHOULD have been found as part of the tracking adjustment.
(As should any spring or top mount damage.)
Trouble is, nowadays I think many of the people doing tracking are just machine operators, and they totally believe what that machine tells them, even if it makes no sense.
The days of a grease-stained mechanic inspecting all of the suspension components BEFORE starting seem be a distant memory.

 

[A3jeroen]

Maybe tracking was done without setting the steeringwheel straight?

gr J

 

[koalar]

not sure how a toe setting can cause a fault only on sharp left corners

it can cause a pull to the left or right and would feel different left to right.

I must be missing something obvious

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The thing is this car was, presumably, driving well before the pot hole incident? Quite possibly some damage was done then which may not have been identified by the person who did the toe. Subsequently the owner has found the toe setting to be wildly out of spec. This could be easily as a result of a suspension part being damaged (but not identified and renewed before the toe adjustment was made) Could be as simple as a slightly bent wheel (but not just the rim - give it a spin). The toe could have been set correctly on the machine but as soon as the car is driven the damaged/worn part - for instance a torn bush, especially if it's a voided type, or ball joint - allows movement and makes a nonsense of the toe just set. I've seen this so often. You just can't achieve a meaningful toe setting with worn/damaged components. In fact it's an interesting way to check. After setting/checking the toe drive the vehicle round the block a couple of times and back onto the same bit of floor - or ramp - where you previously checked it. If the setting has changed you've got wear/damage somewhere that you've failed to identify. (I'm deliberately mentioning toe only as we are not, I presume, talking about a full alignment check here?)

At the end of the day we can go on guessing at this one endlessly - The car needs a thorough check over by someone who knows what to look for.

 

[rmjbn1]

I'd agree, I'm not sure tracking misalignment alone would cause the symptoms you've described. I would suspect a damaged suspension or steering component that has possibly sent the tracking out again.

The only similar symptoms I've experienced are (i) a shock absorber smashed by a pot-hole - it would really lurch into corners as the un-dampened spring loaded up; and (ii) a damaged steering rack - I could see the track rod jump as lock was wound on.

 

[Cinq999]

I had another good look today, and again, couldn't see anything out of the ordinary.

Took it back to the garage and they did the tracking again.

Its much better than it was, but its still wrong.

Turning left, it will turn fine, but when turning a little sharper, it will then suddenly pull left. Makes me think something is moving that shouldn't.

Jacked the front end up and with the wheels off, turned full lock to lock. Track rods move smooth and even, and no play in the steering rack.

Fitted a set of steel wheels, still does it, so definitely the car itself.

When it hit the pothole, it was just the front n/s wheel that hit it, so fairly certain the rear is okay.

Gap between tyre and arch is equal both sides.

Subframe appears straight, and has same measurements both sides.

It's also not particularly noticeable under 30mph, but gets worse the faster the car goes. No vibrations or noises, just the sudden pulling.

Im guessing when the wheels reach a certain angle, something somewhere must give, just enough to allow one/both wheels to turn another few degrees when under load.

I want to get it sorted properly, so I'm going to replace all the front end

I've ordered new lower arms, inner tie rods and track rod ends, droplinks, arb bushes, top mounts.

Shocks and springs are only a year old, and both springs are seated properly, no damage, and shocks seem to work as they should.

Hopefully I'll rebuild it next week, and get a garage next door to work to do the tracking.

 

[koalar]

Shocks and springs are only a year old, and both springs are seated properly, no damage, and shocks seem to work

Is it Bent ?

There’s a few YouTube videos on testing them

Normally I can see a difference with the wheel front to aft in the wheel arch, but I guess it will depend how bad

Fits the symptoms. And is one of the weakest parts of the Fiat suspension. Along with the rear suspension bush which is pretty easy to test. Jack up the car and push and pull on the tyre at the 3 and 9 O’clock position. If the rear bush has gone you will movement.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I had another good look today, and again, couldn't see anything out of the ordinary.

Took it back to the garage and they did the tracking again.

Its much better than it was, but its still wrong.

Turning left, it will turn fine, but when turning a little sharper, it will then suddenly pull left. Makes me think something is moving that shouldn't.

Jacked the front end up and with the wheels off, turned full lock to lock. Track rods move smooth and even, and no play in the steering rack.

Fitted a set of steel wheels, still does it, so definitely the car itself.

When it hit the pothole, it was just the front n/s wheel that hit it, so fairly certain the rear is okay.

Gap between tyre and arch is equal both sides.

Subframe appears straight, and has same measurements both sides.

It's also not particularly noticeable under 30mph, but gets worse the faster the car goes. No vibrations or noises, just the sudden pulling.

Im guessing when the wheels reach a certain angle, something somewhere must give, just enough to allow one/both wheels to turn another few degrees when under load.

I want to get it sorted properly, so I'm going to replace all the front end

I've ordered new lower arms, inner tie rods and track rod ends, droplinks, arb bushes, top mounts.

Shocks and springs are only a year old, and both springs are seated properly, no damage, and shocks seem to work as they should.

Hopefully I'll rebuild it next week, and get a garage next door to work to do the tracking.

First thing I must say cinq is that my heart bleeds for you. I've been in similar situations my self - something's wrong but I can't readily identify the reason. The course of action you are embarking on (which some might describe as "scattergun") may or may not "sort" this problem and you're almost certainly going to be replacing parts which are perfectly serviceable? Faced with this problem - i.e. following extensive checks done myself but still being unable to identify the problem - I'd be seeking out a crash repair specialist who has a chassis bench, or at minimum a "Hunter" type wheel geometry bench, and getting them to check it over. There will be such a business within reasonable distance of you I'm sure - ask around some of the bigger garages around you, they'll know - What's "worrying" me is that, as you don't actually know what the problem is, you may end up replacing all these parts - with the cost that involves - and still not have eliminated the problem. I'm also wondering, does the "garage next door to work" have a decent set up for carrying out toe adjustments?

So sorry if this all sounds very negative. I'm just concerned you may end up spending quite a bit of money and your time to no good effect. You really need to positively identify the root cause first.

 

[koalar]

lift both wheels off the ground

keys in the ignition take the steering lock off

push and pull on the tyre to move the steering from lock to lock

is it smooth in both directions

turn the steering wheel while someone watches the wheels are the smooth no jumping

 

[DaveMcT]

You can spot a lot with a cheap spirit level angle finder. Check the wheels for camber against a level surface. Check the steering lock angles (both side) with respect to the sills and check toe angles against the sills. You wont get accurate setting numbers but any discrepancy (left to right) gives clues as to where to start looking for structural damage.
That sudden shift in the steering could be as simple as the front strut top bearing breaking up. We already know it's had an impact. They cost about £20 each side (silly money for what they are) but at least you don't need a spring compressor to fit new top mounts.
Pull off the LHS mount. Grease it up (if possible) and refit. Buy new parts if necessary.

 

[koalar]

front strut top bearing breaking up.
least you don't need a spring compressor to fit new top mounts.

are you sure ?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

at least you don't need a spring compressor to fit new top mounts.

? Look Mum, no teeth!

 

[koalar]

I had another good look today, and again, couldn't see anything out of the ordinary.

Took it back to the garage and they did the tracking again.

Its much better than it was, but its still wrong.

Turning left, it will turn fine, but when turning a little sharper, it will then suddenly pull left. Makes me think something is moving that shouldn't.

Jacked the front end up and with the wheels off, turned full lock to lock. Track rods move smooth and even, and no play in the steering rack.

Fitted a set of steel wheels, still does it, so definitely the car itself.

When it hit the pothole, it was just the front n/s wheel that hit it, so fairly certain the rear is okay.

Gap between tyre and arch is equal both sides.

Subframe appears straight, and has same measurements both sides.

It's also not particularly noticeable under 30mph, but gets worse the faster the car goes. No vibrations or noises, just the sudden pulling.

Im guessing when the wheels reach a certain angle, something somewhere must give, just enough to allow one/both wheels to turn another few degrees when under load.

I want to get it sorted properly, so I'm going to replace all the front end

I've ordered new lower arms, inner tie rods and track rod ends, droplinks, arb bushes, top mounts.

Shocks and springs are only a year old, and both springs are seated properly, no damage, and shocks seem to work as they should.

Hopefully I'll rebuild it next week, and get a garage next door to work to do the tracking.

I feel your frustration

but if you can feel a difference, you can find the offending part

You can get lucky with guessing. But just suppose you change all the suspension and steering and it turns out to be a faulty differential, yes I know its unlikely. But it would be annoying

I tend to start with the easy stuff first. The First thing I try when steering is uneven left to right is to check the tyre pressures and then swap the front wheels over, yes I know they are new