General Built in obsolescence RUST

[The Panda Nut]

I have identified the reason our 2011 has such a rusty chassis. If you remove a front road wheel, and put your hand in behind the spring pan there is a very neatly designed silt trap. The whole car is supposedly well protected from rust so this surely cannot be an oversight! They even put a rubber grommet in the only place water could drain out! I will hopefully find out if the rust has gone too far to be retrievable in a few days. Checking on both our newer cars they are exactly the same full of wet silt. I think they have not yet got a rust issue and I shall eliminate the water trap within the next few days once I have decided how. Initial thoughts are 1.5 to 2 tubes of unibond 30 year mastic (each side) to completely fill this hole after a comprehensive rust preventatve treatment. 2nd thought is to get a filler panel made - per wheel arch liners 3D printed and slot this in and seal the edges with mastic and stone chip it.

In the meantime I shall start washing this area weekly with my chassis nozle on the power washer. The rubber grommets can go too!!!
One car down and two to go!

Anyone with 3D printing capabilities that can help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Steve126]

There should be a little drainage hole at the front of that area where the mud collects, but you need to clean all the dirt away properly to be able to see it.

 

[porta]

I don’t like filling cavities with foams or gels as, if the peel or are the open cell types, they just end up holding more water, remember the regattas (regrettables) bloody spray foam filled…the dyna/waxoil etc generally fair better if you can get to all surfaces but, as with fiats of old, if the drains get blocked or not poked through on PDI they end up being pools.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Im now leaning towardsmaking a cover from stainless sheet and then attaching it using tiger seal across the top with a slope so water mud, silt,sand and salt can all run off and not collect. Im not looking forward to trying to de rust this area or to having to apy for the repair if its gone too far... I think this is cool calculated buiding in of obsolesence and a deliberate move to ensuring these cars all die early. 169 and 319 both the same!

 

[DaveMcT]

I believe it a 169 design fault that's carried forward to 500 and later Pandas. The front crush beam box sections could easily have been fitted flange inward or flange outward. They goofed the design until it was too late to change the tooling. At least it's easy to weld (if needed) and doing that can remove the rust trap. Otherwise, chip off the rust and soak it with water dispersing anti rust wax. The back will have to be really well treated then resealed with mastic. Failure to do that will let salty water into the sills.

 

[Steve126]

When I bought my car this area was filled with mud which turned out to be hiding a fair bit of rust. I removed the front strut so I could get better access to it and then spent ages scraping flakes of rusty metal away and using various wire brushes in a drill and die grinder. Some areas are very difficult to get to so I also used Bilt Hamber Deox-Gel which removes rust and will get to the parts a wire brush can't reach. Still a horrible job though.

 

[chris3234]

I have identified the reason our 2011 has such a rusty chassis. If you remove a front road wheel, and put your hand in behind the spring pan there is a very neatly designed silt trap. The whole car is supposedly well protected from rust so this surely cannot be an oversight! They even put a rubber grommet in the only place water could drain out! I will hopefully find out if the rust has gone too far to be retrievable in a few days. Checking on both our newer cars they are exactly the same full of wet silt. I think they have not yet got a rust issue and I shall eliminate the water trap within the next few days once I have decided how. Initial thoughts are 1.5 to 2 tubes of unibond 30 year mastic (each side) to completely fill this hole after a comprehensive rust preventatve treatment. 2nd thought is to get a filler panel made - per wheel arch liners 3D printed and slot this in and seal the edges with mastic and stone chip it.

In the meantime I shall start washing this area weekly with my chassis nozle on the power washer. The rubber grommets can go too!!!
One car down and two to go!

Anyone with 3D printing capabilities that can help would be greatly appreciated.

The 500and probably old has the same little ledge in the front wheel arch but yours is one of the worst I've seen there for rust


That being said it doesn't come up very often unless of cause I've missed the thread's

 

[The Panda Nut]

The 500and probably old has the same little ledge in the front wheel arch but yours is one of the worst I've seen there for rust


That being said it doesn't come up very often unless of cause I've missed the thread's

Im hoping to get it shot blasted and sorted if its still reasonably sound. If not I shall have to let it go fairly soon which will be very annoying. Our 2014 car has these troughs half full of wet muck and I have to check the newest too. Whatever idiot thought this was good design should be shot. Th eundoimg of an otherwise great car. Daughter likes her 169 and will not be as happy with the 319. At least she wont be paying for it!

 

[DaveMcT]

Grit blasting will clean the back wall and most of the floor. The back side of the flange is almost impossible to clean. Scrape it off and soak in a good quality searching corrosion treatment like ACF-50 LanoGuard or even Waxoyl. Keep it clean and the treatment topped up.

The shock absorber strut takes a few minutes to remove and the metal is thicker than body panels (easier to weld). The offending flange could be cut off and new metal welded in. This can repair the damage and remove the dirt trap. Costs should be reasonable.

 

[Yolanda]

This is what I do. Once a year when servicing, or when other work is being undertaken in the area, I clean out the said area finishing with a few blasts of compressed air, then a good coating of old engine oil by brush.

 

[The Panda Nut]

2019 car was nearly totally clear and dry, 2014 was 50% full of dry dust. Both now spotless! No visible rust.

 

[The Panda Nut]

There should be a little drainage hole at the front of that area where the mud collects, but you need to clean all the dirt away properly to be able to see it.

Found the hole unde all the crap and rust, I think the 2019 4x4 has more draininge. If it warms up again I shall habve a closer look.

 

[DaveMcT]

The firewall end of that channel has holes at the corners - probably to avoid cracking at the welds. The front end has a slot across the full width of the channel. the back end is fully sealed with jointing mastic. The front end is open for drainage. But mere drainage cannot remove mud build-up and that's the real problem here.

To do a proper job of delisting this area you will have to dig out ALL mastic and use a mirror to ensure all flaking rust gets chipped off. You will also need to look inside the front structural "crash" beams to make sure rust has not crept inside. If welding is needed, take the opportunity to cut the flange away and weld in a new Z shape section that removes the dirt trap entirely.

 

[The Panda Nut]

The firewall end of that channel has holes at the corners - probably to avoid cracking at the welds. The front end has a slot across the full width of the channel. the back end is fully sealed with jointing mastic. The front end is open for drainage. But mere drainage cannot remove mud build-up and that's the real problem here.

To do a proper job of delisting this area you will have to dig out ALL mastic and use a mirror to ensure all flaking rust gets chipped off. You will also need to look inside the front structural "crash" beams to make sure rust has not crept inside. If welding is needed, take the opportunity to cut the flange away and weld in a new Z shape section that removes the dirt trap entirely.

Regrettably I am pretty sure the front leg is now compromised. I shall try my locar car bodywork restorer and see if he will give a price but I think it going to be sold on pretty soon as I cant seeing it being viable and my welding is not good enough for a structural repair.

 

[chris3234]

Found the pics this is what my 2009 500 was like around 3 years ago when it was cleaned nowhere near as bad as your panda

 

[DaveMcT]

The box sections that trap the rust support the front crash beam. They stiffen the inner wings which carry the engine mounts but are not structural like subframe mounts or front suspension strut top mounts.

When I had my diesel stripped down, I seriously considered welding in a new box at that point as a pre-emptive measure. The crash collapse divots are ahead of that part of the box section so would remain as built and would not be compromised. I don't have metal folding tools so decided it was more work than I want to undertake right now, but it looks entirely "do-able".

It all depends on whether your bodywork guy wants the job.