Technical Body Control or ECU or Stalk

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Technical Body Control or ECU or Stalk

Just discovered this on eLearn, I don't understand half of it, but you guys certainly will.

It's a description of the BCM on the Fiat Panda as well as what it does / pins / connectors etc:
 

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  • Panda BCM eLearn.pdf
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Looks like you can check for positive volts at the 10 way brown connector and the negative control voltage from the stalk at the blue 9-18-9 looks like there is another fuse F43 as well as those internally built into the body computer.


That's all I can make out.
 
I'm never going to get this working normally again. And although it's cool we made a switch, I feel sh*t using it. I just want it to work the way it should to be honest :-(

Make it an overhead safety/bomberswitch and wire in a small sirene when hou use it... then from being silly its fun..
 
Here's one needing an ABS sensor or at worst a wheel bearing.

And you could almost certainly drive that away for £300 or so.

But - it's an end of life car. The Panda is designed to last 10-12 years or so; beyond that, if you're dependent on garages for everything, it'll likely cost your more to keep it on the road than the monthly payment on a new one, with all the hassle of an unreliable car. So it's possible for this to turn into a moneypit if someone buys it and then pays a third party to fix the faults as they occur. As SB1500 knows, the running cost of a 12yr old car is largely determined by what goes wrong with it, not what is good about it. Most of why the current owner is selling it is probably in this paragraph.

As a rule of thumb, once it's >10yrs old, a small family car with a year's MOT and all the major bits working will fetch about 10% of its cost when new if sold privately, and will hold that value as long as it stays working and roadworthy. Once you're spending more that that each year to keep it roadworthy (about £700pa for a Panda), then it's time to think about letting it go.

Another rule of thumb when valuing an old car with a short MOT is £100 + £50 for each month's MOT remaining. Most private owners in this situation are more concerned with getting the thing off the drive and being shot of the ownership responsibility than getting the best possible price for it.

It could be a good opportunity for the DIY motorist, especially if you have the space to buy two similar cars and use one as a parts pack.

Pandas make great cheap cars, providing you avoid the trap of paying dealer prices, both when buying and when fixing them when they break. A few years back I saw what was at the time a one owner 3yr old 1.2 dynamic eco with less than 6k on the clock go through a general house clearance auction for under £1900. You just have to be in the right place at the right time, and have the cash in your pocket.
 
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And you could almost certainly drive that away for £300 or so.

But - it's an end of life car. The Panda is designed to last 10-12 years or so; beyond that, if you're dependent on garages for everything, it'll likely cost your more to keep it on the road than the monthly payment on a new one, with all the hassle of an unreliable car. So it's possible for this to turn into a moneypit if someone buys it and then pays a third party to fix the faults as they occur.

It could be a good opportunity for the DIY motorist, especially if you have the space to buy two similar cars and use one as a parts pack.

Pandas make great cheap cars, providing you avoid the trap of paying dealer prices, both when buying and when fixing them when they break. A few years back I saw what was at the time a one owner 3yr old 1.2 dynamic eco with less than 6k on the clock go through a general house clearance auction for under £1900.

Surely if 12 is the best I can get out of it, the wise thing to do now is to move on?

I mean the car drives brilliantly, the engine is so far bone dry with the new seals, shocks / clutch / etc all less than a year old. I don't exactly want to get rid of it, I'm feeling like I'll have to as at the minute I'm on student loan money and to be honest I've budgeted it well other than the fact the Panda has costed about £500 since September. From that perspective, I worry that going on the way I am will lead me to having probably no money, I certainly have no 'fun money' from week to week any more due to the unforeseen MOT costs etc.

That's the only dimension where moving on, despite the big investments I've made, seems to make sense.

Because if I get a 2012 car now, and continue the investment style that I have enjoyed with the Panda, surely it'll go farther. Problem is, all there seems to be that young, with low miles is a Suzuki Alto and I should already know better than that from a previous thread, but right now it seems like it'd work :-/
 
I mean the car drives brilliantly, the engine is so far bone dry with the new seals, shocks / clutch / etc all less than a year old.

Your future running costs will be determined by what else goes wrong with it, not what is right about it now.

Because if I get a 2012 car now, and continue the investment style that I have enjoyed with the Panda, surely it'll go farther. Problem is, all there seems to be that young, with low miles is a Suzuki Alto and I should already know better than that from a previous thread, but right now it seems like it'd work :-/

Probably the best way I know to lose the most money on a car in the shortest possible time is to buy a relatively new used one on finance from a dealer. Choosing a Suzuki Alto would be a good way to maximise this loss.
 
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Probably the best way I know to lose the most money on a car in the shortest possible time is to buy a relatively new used one on finance from a dealer.

I really don't know what to do at the minute :-(

Part of me says that in the new year I should pay my Fiat dealer to investigate the problems for us, tell them I want 2 hours (2x£50) for labour for them to come up with an answer to it..

What would you do personally?
 
What would you do personally?

I've been there, many years ago now, but essentially the same situation.

What I did at the time was to buy a second car as a parts pack; it cost me the equivalent of about £100 today. If you'd had that, how much of what you've spent over the past six months would you have saved?

But in fairness cars were much simpler than, and practically anything was easily interchangeable; that's no longer the case and your wiper problem might leave you head scratching even if you had a second donor car.

What I'd do now (and you don't want to hear this) is to get rid of it and use public transport. Put your money and time into getting the best degree you can, and in the future, you'll be earning enough to buy what you really want. I managed to run some sort of private transport for approximately half the time I spent at Uni.

Six months after I'd graduated, I was earning enough to get into a nice bright shiny new car, and a nice bright shiny new house.
 
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I've been there, many years ago now, but essentially the same situation.

What I did at the time was to buy a second car as a parts pack; it cost me the equivalent of about £100 today. If you'd had that, how much of what you've spent over the past six months would you have saved?

But in fairness cars were much simpler than, and practically anything was easily interchangeable; that's no longer the case and your wiper problem might leave you head scratching even if you had a second donor car.

What I'd do now (and you don't want to hear this) is to get rid of it and use public transport. Put your money and time into getting the best degree you can, and in the future, you'll be earning enough to buy what you really want. I managed to run some sort of private transport for approximately half the time I spent at Uni.

Six months after I'd graduated, I was earning enough to get into a nice bright shiny new car, and a nice bright shiny new house.

You're right, I didn't want to hear it. But I also never considered that until now.

I'm giving it some serious thought. And I'll talk it over with close family/friends.

Getting the bus to uni three days a week shouldn't be a problem. Possibly cycling in between. Something I've always wanted to do but am too lazy half the time.

I know too, that all of you people who are reading this latest problem are quite possibly the best people in the world to be advising me because unlike other parties, you each have the experience technically and the sort that comes with age I guess! And you're also not financially interested like a dealer who will tell me it's worth throwing more money into the pit, or selling my soul for finance. Or a mechanic who can't be bothered and says to scrap the car etc. When you're telling me that it's a worthy time to make the jump then I value that a lot.
 
And you could almost certainly drive that away for £300 or so.

But - it's an end of life car. The Panda is designed to last 10-12 years or so; beyond that, if you're dependent on garages for everything, it'll likely cost your more to keep it on the road than the monthly payment on a new one, with all the hassle of an unreliable car. So it's possible for this to turn into a moneypit if someone buys it and then pays a third party to fix the faults as they occur. As SB1500 knows, the running cost of a 12yr old car is largely determined by what goes wrong with it, not what is good about it. Most of why the current owner is selling it is probably in this paragraph.

As a rule of thumb, once it's >10yrs old, a small family car with a year's MOT and all the major bits working will fetch about 10% of its cost when new if sold privately, and will hold that value as long as it stays working and roadworthy. Once you're spending more that that each year to keep it roadworthy (about £700pa for a Panda), then it's time to think about letting it go.

Another rule of thumb when valuing an old car with a short MOT is £100 + £50 for each month's MOT remaining. Most private owners in this situation are more concerned with getting the thing off the drive and being shot of the ownership responsibility than getting the best possible price for it.

It could be a good opportunity for the DIY motorist, especially if you have the space to buy two similar cars and use one as a parts pack.

Pandas make great cheap cars, providing you avoid the trap of paying dealer prices, both when buying and when fixing them when they break. A few years back I saw what was at the time a one owner 3yr old 1.2 dynamic eco with less than 6k on the clock go through a general house clearance auction for under £1900. You just have to be in the right place at the right time, and have the cash in your pocket.

SB already has a car with new radiator, new clutch, brakes, tyres except the wipers have gone titsup. There's loads of stuff to keep the either one going. The cost of course time trouble space, etc, etc.

On the other side, motor insurance costs for young people are insane so if a car isn't actually needed now could be the time to walk away.

Degrees these days cost a fortune and there is no such thing as an easy degree in any subject.

I chose Chiropractic which is uber tough worked like hell and scraped a pass but that was all I needed. Medicine you wont get very far without a 1:1 or 2:1 - so much competition. Any of the Arts have to be a first or people will say you were on a doss. My daughter worked hard for her History degree and got a 2nd so she wasn't overly happy.
 
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I hardly think this is a reason to dump the car. These threads have gone on and on so it's difficult to understand what has been tested and deduced up to this point.

Do I have this right?

It seems that maybe the wiper mechanism is OK, even though it is worn and should be replaced or fixed. Also the motor seems to be working ok if all its circuits are energised externally - correct?

So it seems that maybe 2 wiper functions do not work when energised on the car, and the stalk switch is believed to be OK. This leaves either the ECU, relay unit or a wiring fault. It seems odd that it would only work up to 20% of travel, and then quit. A relay should be on or off depending on the command signal, and it seems that some of the other circuitry is self-regulating (e.g. parking).

I would have to have suspicions about the original faults reported initially, there is wear to the mechanism and water problems around the wiper wiring. It is possible that if something was shorting or not connecting properly that an electrical component could have been stressed. It's odd that it had a predictable fault that fixed itself, then came back, and it has now failed completely.

I would take it to a proper auto-electrician or the dealer, often they have a diagnostic program that steps through the symptoms and isolates even the trickiest fault. An AA guy at the roadside found a really obscure wire break in the injection of my 20 year old Tipo earlier this year.

Obviously if it is one of these coded units that is dodgy then you have a big decision to make.
 
SB already has a car with new radiator, new clutch, brakes, tyres except the wipers have gone titsup. There's loads of stuff to keep the either one going. The cost of course time trouble space, etc, etc.

On the other side, motor insurance costs for young people are insane so if a car isn't actually needed now could be the time to walk away.

Degrees these days cost a fortune and there is no such thing as an easy degree in any subject.

I chose Chiropractic which is uber tough worked like hell and scraped a pass but that was all I needed. Medicine you wont get very far without a 1:1 or 2:1 - so much competition. Any of the Arts have to be a first or people will say you were on a doss. My daughter worked hard for her History degree and got a 2nd so she wasn't overly happy.

I'm studying accountancy, I think I'd need a 2:1 or a 1:1 too. The difficulty with no car is getting to placements. Especially in Northern Ireland where busses are severely lacking (n)


I hardly think this is a reason to dump the car. These threads have gone on and on so it's difficult to understand what has been tested and deduced up to this point.

Do I have this right?

It seems that maybe the wiper mechanism is OK, even though it is worn and should be replaced or fixed. Also the motor seems to be working ok if all its circuits are energised externally - correct?

So it seems that maybe 2 wiper functions do not work when energised on the car, and the stalk switch is believed to be OK. This leaves either the ECU, relay unit or a wiring fault. It seems odd that it would only work up to 20% of travel, and then quit. A relay should be on or off depending on the command signal, and it seems that some of the other circuitry is self-regulating (e.g. parking).

I would have to have suspicions about the original faults reported initially, there is wear to the mechanism and water problems around the wiper wiring. It is possible that if something was shorting or not connecting properly that an electrical component could have been stressed. It's odd that it had a predictable fault that fixed itself, then came back, and it has now failed completely.

I would take it to a proper auto-electrician or the dealer, often they have a diagnostic program that steps through the symptoms and isolates even the trickiest fault. An AA guy at the roadside found a really obscure wire break in the injection of my 20 year old Tipo earlier this year.

Obviously if it is one of these coded units that is dodgy then you have a big decision to make.

You have it right, only the wipers (just before they seized altogether) would only lift 2cm and stop.

Many people think it's a wiring issue. If I had a definite way to check this then I could get it working right.

Can anyone confirm the following?

There are 4 working pins on the motor's electrical connector. If I find out where these four wire go, I could put another wire from them to the connector (four individual wires) to test if the wires are the problem. Only problem being having to splice the wires on the loom at the BCM end.

Worth a shot or?

Paying for other peoples time such as the Fiat dealer or an auto electrician is the problem to be honest.

My uncle says that I should keep the car because 'sooner or later', even months down the line, he is confident we WILL find the cause, because as he says, if a mechanic is able to do it then with a bit of background knowledge we can too. I want to have faith in that but am unsure of the reality
 
Just exactly how do I rule out the stalk?


Someone said, if I set the stalk to a set wiper speed, and put the car into reverse and the rear wiper comes on then the stalk is fine? It does this. What is does not do, is adjust the rear wipers speed. I can't remember if the rear wiper has variable speeds, could someone check this for me on their Panda?
 
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