Technical Body Control or ECU or Stalk

[bluejohn125]

I'm still not sure if you are replacing the wiper assembly as a matter of course... you said you'd ordered something from Eurocarparts?

You could try your luck at the scrapyard and see if you could cut off a length of wiring from their Panda's wiper so that you have a second supply connector, open the loom up and connect the 4 wires separately to somewhere that supplies the voltages (car or test rig).

I'm still not sure if the system supplies a constant voltage (say 12V fast and 6V slow) to the motor all the time the wiper is selected, or of it just gives an initial kick to get things started until the "off" action activates the Park feature? I think most of the logic was almost explained earlier on in the thread?

It's odd that you said you had to manually "help" the wipers to complete their travel when it was acting dodgy. That suggests bad mechanics, bad motor or problems in the electrical supply.

 

[SB1500]

I'm still not sure if you are replacing the wiper assembly as a matter of course... you said you'd ordered something from Eurocarparts?

You could try your luck at the scrapyard and see if you could cut off a length of wiring from their Panda's wiper so that you have a second supply connector, open the loom up and connect the 4 wires separately to somewhere that supplies the voltages (car or test rig).

I'm still not sure if the system supplies a constant voltage (say 12V fast and 6V slow) to the motor all the time the wiper is selected, or of it just gives an initial kick to get things started until the "off" action activates the Park feature? I think most of the logic was almost explained earlier on in the thread?

It's odd that you said you had to manually "help" the wipers to complete their travel when it was acting dodgy. That suggests bad mechanics, bad motor or problems in the electrical supply.

I'll try to answer you, sorry that I have not been clear. I appreciate your help in the situation.

We ordered a new motor and linkage assembly, however, as the motor is now found to be working we cancelled this. Due to the linkage being broken, I am arranging to buy a used part from a fellow Panda owner in England next week. This will come with the motor, so of course, I'll try plugging it in like normal and maybe I'll get a Christmas miracle though I can't see it.

So you're saying to get the connector off of another Panda? Unfortunately, the only scrap yard here is literally run by monkeys. I was asking them if they had a part and they said yes, £50 and by the time I was able to reply I realised I was cut off. :bang:

Yes, portland_bill explained the 'expected' values of each pin, though from experimentation, we think he got the two speeds of the fast/slow pins mixed up - but we could be wrong on that. I've also got access to Fiat eLearn too, must cross check that. Unfortunately it assumes a basic understanding of electrics which I lack lol

Since the motor is now working powerfully with a homemade switch, we can't see it. It very much seems like a wiring/adapter issue as the motor is incredibly strong with how it works at the minute. Though as said, when I get my used unit from England I'll fit it and see, on the off chance it is something small inside the motor.

I'd love to know if there is an earth inside of it

 

[bluejohn125]

I was also suspicious when you said earlier that your leaf blockages had released a load of water through the dash area and onto the floor... if the relay module etc is in that area there could have been water damage. My Tipo had problems some years back when a leaking windscreen allowed the fusebox (by the driver's shins) to collect water and fail.

Anyway you've got some things to try out.

 

[SB1500]

I was also suspicious when you said earlier that your leaf blockages had released a load of water through the dash area and onto the floor... if the relay module etc is in that area there could have been water damage. My Tipo had problems some years back when a leaking windscreen allowed the fusebox (by the driver's shins) to collect water and fail.

Anyway you've got some things to try out.

Rightly enough, I never connected the water in the footwell to it.

However, had it reached the body control module, wouldn't there be likely more than one fault caused by this?

The man at Fiat seems to think it's highly unlikely the BCM as it'd cause more faults than the one. He thinks its a loose wire, but obviously wanted me to book it into them for 3 hours to find out.

 

[bluejohn125]

He may be right, you just have to methodically put the clues together and it will eventually make sense. One of the other threads mentioned earlier led to a guy fixing his erratic motor operation by cleaning and adjusting the contact fingers of the motor circuit.

 

[SB1500]

He may be right, you just have to methodically put the clues together and it will eventually make sense. One of the other threads mentioned earlier led to a guy fixing his erratic motor operation by cleaning and adjusting the contact fingers of the motor circuit.

We had the motor opened, no signs of water damage there. All the electronics were pristine, shiny and a big clump of grease in it.

It does seem like we will have to remove the loom and check for signs of 'butchering' though how one would go about this, I don't know :/

 

[TobiasBB]

Just exactly how do I rule out the stalk?


Someone said, if I set the stalk to a set wiper speed, and put the car into reverse and the rear wiper comes on then the stalk is fine? It does this. What is does not do, is adjust the rear wipers speed. I can't remember if the rear wiper has variable speeds, could someone check this for me on their Panda?

My one panda does at least have variable speed on the rear-wiper, she's '10. the '05 4x4 I can check tomorrow

 

[SB1500]

Okay, so in effort to test the stalk unit, I'll share the following:

Twist to activate rear = rear wiper on, standard speed, once every few seconds
THEN changing front speed = no difference, rear on at standard speed as above

Engage ANY front wiper speed + REVERSE gear = Rear wiper comes on continuously, fast. Regardless of

Regardless of the speed (slow/medium/fast) of the front wipers, that is how the rear one behaves.

------

What could this signify in regard to the STALK UNIT?

 

[irc]

That seems to be exactly what an 04 Eleganza, an 05 Sporting and a 10 Active Eco all seem to do.
Can't check an 04 Active at the moment as it is out & about.
So, I think your rear wiper is fine, and the stalk seems to be working ok.

 

[varesecrazy]

That seems to be exactly what an 04 Eleganza, an 05 Sporting and a 10 Active Eco all seem to do.
Can't check an 04 Active at the moment as it is out & about.
So, I think your rear wiper is fine, and the stalk seems to be working ok.

same here,

SB1500 - I think you'd be best to either attempt to trace the wiper wiring back into the dash area ( where it's possibly got a green + furry connector)

or get an auto electrician out to the car,
FIAT will either do this - charging commission , or play parts roulette

neither of which are justifiable on a £1000 panda

:idea: open the windows a tad,
to let air circulate.. set-up a fan heater pointing up under the drivers side dash for a couple of hours - supervised..

drying it out may just get things going again.

 

[portland_bill]

All the controls for the wiper come from the BCM.
You showed the wiring connections in your post 41. page 3 of this thread, refer to this as well as the pics from Haynes, attached.

Apart from the earth connection, you will see that the other wires come from the BCM, all from the connector you highlighted in your pic from eLearn.

The wiper motor, item 47, shows a schematic of how it is wired. The motor has two feed wires, one offset. If my memory serves, it is the offset one that gives the lower speed, the in-line one (connection 5 on the motor) gives the faster speed, which is the 'normal' speed for the motor. Whichever way it works, these should be fed with battery volts when requested to operate.

As the rear wiper works as it should, the column switch appears to be sending the correct request to the BCM. The BCM output to the front motor is either not coming out of the BCM, or just not arriving at the motor.

The plug at the BCM will be difficult to access, but it is here that you need to check for voltages for each speed. As each speed is requested by the switch, you should get battery voltage at the output pin at the BCM. If there the voltages are OK, the fault is in the wiring between there and the motor, or the connectors. If the voltages are not correct, the fault lies within the BCM. As said somewhere in this thread, looking inside, if possible without breaking it, may show an easy fix, with burnt contacts, or a duff relay, whatever that might look like within.

Good luck.

 

[g8rpi]

All the controls for the wiper come from the BCM.
You showed the wiring connections in your post 41. page 3 of this thread, refer to this as well as the pics from Haynes, attached.

Apart from the earth connection, you will see that the other wires come from the BCM, all from the connector you highlighted in your pic from eLearn.

The wiper motor, item 47, shows a schematic of how it is wired. The motor has two feed wires, one offset. If my memory serves, it is the offset one that gives the lower speed, the in-line one (connection 5 on the motor) gives the faster speed, which is the 'normal' speed for the motor. Whichever way it works, these should be fed with battery volts when requested to operate.

As the rear wiper works as it should, the column switch appears to be sending the correct request to the BCM. The BCM output to the front motor is either not coming out of the BCM, or just not arriving at the motor.

The plug at the BCM will be difficult to access, but it is here that you need to check for voltages for each speed. As each speed is requested by the switch, you should get battery voltage at the output pin at the BCM. If there the voltages are OK, the fault is in the wiring between there and the motor, or the connectors. If the voltages are not correct, the fault lies within the BCM. As said somewhere in this thread, looking inside, if possible without breaking it, may show an easy fix, with burnt contacts, or a duff relay, whatever that might look like within.

Good luck.

A fairly common fault with ECUs that have relays in them is bad solder joints between the relay and the circuit board. The copper tracks can also crack Inspecttracks and joints carefully with a strong light and magnifiying glass. Even tiny cracks (caused by the mass of the relay and vibration) can cause failure.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[portland_bill]

A fairly common fault with ECUs that have relays in them is bad solder joints between the relay and the circuit board. The copper tracks can also crack Inspecttracks and joints carefully with a strong light and magnifiying glass. Even tiny cracks (caused by the mass of the relay and vibration) can cause failure.

Robert G8RPI.

As there seems to be a small voltage initially, that then fades away, a poor joint seems likely. If the relay was not working, I'd expect no voltage at all. There is hope.

 

[varesecrazy]

As there seems to be a small voltage initially, that then fades away, a poor joint seems likely. If the relay was not working, I'd expect no voltage at all. There is hope.

and it's "half-worked" for 2 weeks - since drowning it..

 

[SB1500]

Where about on the BCM would I be finding the other end of the wires from that connector?

And what's a fan heater to see if I can find one

 

[SB1500]

My uncle reckons if I keep the car, we'll get to the bottom of it eventually.

He also says he's seen 'bad condition' wiring looms, and they're much worse than mines, so it's unlikely to be a wiring problem he thinks.

I'm meeting a guy in England this weekend whose going to sell me a motor/linkage unit and I'm enquiring about his stalk unit too. As fitting these may well work, if I get them at a good price I'll try them.

In regards to the flooding, though yes it did come out at my feet, surely it came through the little vents (which are much lower and out of the way of the BCM) so I can't see that causing an issue :-/

 

[portland_bill]

Where about on the BCM would I be finding the other end of the wires from that connector?

See page 3 of this thread, your post, number 41, you posted a pdf file of the eLearn description of the BCM.
Connector B is the one that supplies the front wiper. Your own post therefore shows you which connector pin does what. With the connector removed, identify the output pins on the BCM and test their output voltage with the wiper switch in each position.

And what's a fan heater to see if I can find one

http://www.tesco.com/direct/dimplex-dxff30tsn-fan-heater-3kw-white/678-8807.prd?skuId=678-8807

In regards to the flooding, though yes it did come out at my feet, surely it came through the little vents (which are much lower and out of the way of the BCM) so I can't see that causing an issue :-/

The damp will do more damage than just wet, as the water will be a finer mist, so more penetrating.

 

[SB1500]

portland_bill I will take a look into that now.

We will try that this week I hope. What do you advise about basically cutting the wires at the BCM couldn't that mess up more stuff?


Would a dehumidifier help solve the issue?

 

[SB1500]

Oh yes, and a nice guy in England is going to provide me with the following:

- Linkage and Motor Assembly
- Steering Wiper/Indicator Column Switch Unit

For about £40 all in.

I'm sort of hoping now that it's a switch unit problem and replacing that will miraculously cure this nightmare of an issue!

Tonight I'm feeling determined and confident that we WILL get to the bottom of it. We have to. It's a finite system with finite parts. It was designed and built so there's no reason I can't understand every aspect of it. God dammit! lol (hope this determination lasts into the morning!)

 

[SB1500]

And Portland_Bill,

What exactly should the two pins on the connector be showing on the Multimeter?

The two I refer to are not the live feed, or the earth, but the other two.

Should they give a 'brief' voltage in time with the click from the relay?
Or a constant voltage?

This confused us, and in fact, if we can understand what they should be showing then maybe it was a matter of mis-diagnosis on my part, which would be a blessing now.

I know it's probably difficult to explain this to someone whose not experienced but I honour every reply you guys send :worship: