Here's the wiring diagram
It will do nothing with a bad connection C011
It will do nothing with a bad connection C011
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Technical Body Control or ECU or Stalk
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Technical Body Control or ECU or Stalk
portland_bill duff BCM's the most likely scenario, but the loom is cheaper and easier to fix, so probably worth trying.
I was going to have a dig in the spares car to see if I could come up with some instructions, but I can't get to it until the weekend.
Was thinking along the lines of doing a resistance or continuity test on each wiper wire to see if they are OK. Brain is too fried to risk making suggestions on simplest method (long day!). The horn wire problem I found made it click, grunt or work properly, depending on how wet the wires were, so some similarities.
I was going to have a dig in the spares car to see if I could come up with some instructions, but I can't get to it until the weekend.
Was thinking along the lines of doing a resistance or continuity test on each wiper wire to see if they are OK. Brain is too fried to risk making suggestions on simplest method (long day!). The horn wire problem I found made it click, grunt or work properly, depending on how wet the wires were, so some similarities.
OP
OP
Well guys we took jrkitchings idea of making a basic switch. The car has an on off switch inside now that puts the wipers ON , and fast. And I have to stop it manually too. It has a live feed.
We now need the following to improve it:
- A 12V dimmer style switch to vary the power
- An in line fuse to stop it from fire
- small rubber seal / bush / grommit for plugging a hole in the bulkhead to the cabin for the wire
koalar thanks for your info. We were looking at all the same stuff on elearn. Where is this BCM fuse? We found it hard trying to locate he earths on the Panda diagram on that elearn.
We're going to redo the switch more 'professionally' just need all your help finding a suitable variable switch
We now need the following to improve it:
- A 12V dimmer style switch to vary the power
- An in line fuse to stop it from fire
- small rubber seal / bush / grommit for plugging a hole in the bulkhead to the cabin for the wire
koalar thanks for your info. We were looking at all the same stuff on elearn. Where is this BCM fuse? We found it hard trying to locate he earths on the Panda diagram on that elearn.
We're going to redo the switch more 'professionally' just need all your help finding a suitable variable switch
OP
OP
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Yes. But not it will adjust the power as well as the speed. It looks like a 555 timer based unit so connecting a much bigger capacitor across C5 could make it an intermittent control instead. This works by slowing the PWM speed from thousaands per second to seconds between pulses.
Robert G8RPI.
Did you connect the auto-park function?
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OP
OP
We did not, how do we do this?
And could you recommend us a power variable switch? I thought a restriction in power (via the switch) would have a direct impact on the speed of the motor?
Hi,
The module you linked to will vary the speed OK but at low speed it may be a bit juddery.
I've got to go out but wiil respond to autopark later.
Robert G8RPI.
The module you linked to will vary the speed OK but at low speed it may be a bit juddery.
I've got to go out but wiil respond to autopark later.
Robert G8RPI.
Way to go! Now you're thinking like a real engineer.
I started out doing stuff like this too; it was the only way I could have afforded personal transport at the time. After a while, I found that I liked it, and went on to do an engineering degree.
In the 1950's, those cars sufficiently advanced to have electrically operated wipers were just like this. Self parking, variable speed and intermittent wipe all came later.
Then manufacturers fitted a relay into the circuit, so the switch had much less current to handle, could be made smaller and be integrated into the stalk. My 1980's Renault had a boxful of relays; they were prone to fail, but easy to get at, test and change individually for pennies.
Later they found they could save money at manufacturing time by miniaturising all the relays and putting them into the body computer. They still fail (as you know already), but now the smallest part you can buy from Fiat is a complete body computer which costs £££££. This is called progress
.My 1950's Lanchester (and that is an upmarket car) has single speed, non-parking wipers controlled by a heavy duty switch. You'll soon find you get very good at parking them; it'll become instinctive after awhile. You also already have a variable delay intermittent wipe function - just turn the switch on and off as required
.Keep it simple.
Your first priority is to get a fuse in the line. Otherwise if it does short out, it could start a fire.
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The wiper motor should auto park. Just find the right power connector when removed the motor will continue until it meets the park position. Intermittent is delivered with a shy pulse enough to move the motor off park. Self park does the rest.
Ive just remembered a symptom an old car had. The wipers were a bit slow but not too bad, but when powered off they moved really slowly to the park and sometimes popped the fuse. The carbon brush and track were worn. Normal running was fine because the track was bypassed. Parking was slow because the motor got insufficient power from the parking track.
Word of warning with wiper motors -
They are powerful and will keep going until they park. If your fingers get trapped - they will get minced. Be careful.
Ive just remembered a symptom an old car had. The wipers were a bit slow but not too bad, but when powered off they moved really slowly to the park and sometimes popped the fuse. The carbon brush and track were worn. Normal running was fine because the track was bypassed. Parking was slow because the motor got insufficient power from the parking track.
Word of warning with wiper motors -
They are powerful and will keep going until they park. If your fingers get trapped - they will get minced. Be careful.
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If you've hardwired a switched live feed, when you flip the switch, you've removed all power to the motor and it will stop. It can't run without power. It's possible to wire it so it will self park (the mechanism is in the motor housing), but that's more complicated and requires power to the wiper motor connections at all times.
This is how the self parking mechanism works.
Excellent words of caution.
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OP
OP
So could you recommend me an in line fuse I could order from Maplin or eBay?
And a power controlling switch if possible.
And how do I add this park facility? It that the always live feed pin connector on the motor?
And a power controlling switch if possible.
And how do I add this park facility? It that the always live feed pin connector on the motor?
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Any inline fuse or fuse box will do. From Halford to Maplin to eBay. Get one with easy to buy fuses as fault finding can pop a few.
Some car have a spare fuse space in the fuse box for a sunroof. That might do the job you need - if the car has the contacts.
Look inside the motor gearbox. If it self parks as I described there will be wiping contacts and tracks on the output side. You then just have to find the right leads to do the job.
Some car have a spare fuse space in the fuse box for a sunroof. That might do the job you need - if the car has the contacts.
Look inside the motor gearbox. If it self parks as I described there will be wiping contacts and tracks on the output side. You then just have to find the right leads to do the job.
OP
OP
Okay I'll get the fuse today I hope.
Nobody able to advise on a possible controllable switch?
And we had that apart Dave and cleaned contacts. Looked good to us. We couldn't take it apart any further by the looks of it
Nobody able to advise on a possible controllable switch?
And we had that apart Dave and cleaned contacts. Looked good to us. We couldn't take it apart any further by the looks of it
Hi,
To get the autopark to work you need to provide a fused 12V feed to the motor. The schematic posted is hard to read but assuming pin 3 is ground 1 & 3 are fast slow, 12V on pin 2 will park it This should not need to be switched.
The speed controller you found on ebay WILL work with the wiper motor. If you want intermittent operation one of these will work
http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/12v-universal-intermittent-wiper-timer-relay-5-sec-delay.html
HTH,
Robert G8RPI.
To get the autopark to work you need to provide a fused 12V feed to the motor. The schematic posted is hard to read but assuming pin 3 is ground 1 & 3 are fast slow, 12V on pin 2 will park it This should not need to be switched.
The speed controller you found on ebay WILL work with the wiper motor. If you want intermittent operation one of these will work
http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/12v-universal-intermittent-wiper-timer-relay-5-sec-delay.html
HTH,
Robert G8RPI.
OP
OP
Spoke to the Service Advisor at my local Fiat dealership today. For once, he was chatting away about it!
I explained everything to him, and he says "the BCM is incredibly well made", he hasn't seen one with a fault on any of the 169 Panda's yet. He think that if it was at fault, then a whole collection of subsystems would be faulty or working spontaneously including the wipers, washer jets, indicators etc. Though he did say there is a small chance that yes, it could be this technically, he said his bets were on a loose / broken wire somewhere along the board. He said Fiat themselves will take it in and about 2-3 hours of labour would return a clear answer on whether or not it is a wire or the BCM, but I can't afford £150 of labour time! Still. His opinions is quite valuable, and has given me hope that taking out the wires and inspecting them may get it all working 'as normal'. This may be one for after the England trip.
That leaves the questions:
1, how to remove the BCM.
2, how to stand a chance in removing and refitting the wiring loom that includes the BCM<->wiper motor connector.
I got an in-line fuse to stop my Panda from turning into a bonfire, fitting this in an hour or two hopefully.
Still wondering if any of you could suggest a motor speed control switch to replace my 'on/off' style one which currently controls the wipers? I'm thinking along the lines of this.
Going to also read through all of your replies with my uncle to see if we can do any more tests / come to some sort of revelation!
I explained everything to him, and he says "the BCM is incredibly well made", he hasn't seen one with a fault on any of the 169 Panda's yet. He think that if it was at fault, then a whole collection of subsystems would be faulty or working spontaneously including the wipers, washer jets, indicators etc. Though he did say there is a small chance that yes, it could be this technically, he said his bets were on a loose / broken wire somewhere along the board. He said Fiat themselves will take it in and about 2-3 hours of labour would return a clear answer on whether or not it is a wire or the BCM, but I can't afford £150 of labour time! Still. His opinions is quite valuable, and has given me hope that taking out the wires and inspecting them may get it all working 'as normal'. This may be one for after the England trip.
That leaves the questions:
1, how to remove the BCM.
2, how to stand a chance in removing and refitting the wiring loom that includes the BCM<->wiper motor connector.
I got an in-line fuse to stop my Panda from turning into a bonfire, fitting this in an hour or two hopefully.
Still wondering if any of you could suggest a motor speed control switch to replace my 'on/off' style one which currently controls the wipers? I'm thinking along the lines of this.
Going to also read through all of your replies with my uncle to see if we can do any more tests / come to some sort of revelation!
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It could be as simple as a stuck relay in the BCM. If it is, and you can dismantle the BCM, identify the faulty relay, source the right replacement (this may be easier than you think), and are good enough at soldering to replace it, then it's fixable cheaply.
I've seen something very similar on a Renault; the solder connection between relay and circuit board was poor, and vibration did the rest; there was quite a bit of localised burning but the relay itself was actually still OK and all that was necessary was to resolder it to the board.
Modern electronics, with customised IC's and encapsulated modules, remove even these sort of options
:bang:
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OP
OP
jrkitching How do I remove the BCM or is this something you've never had to do? Are there implications to simply removing and refitting it?
We have a newly found soldering iron. A relay that matches whatever is printed on the potential failed-looking relay?
Not something I've done on a Fiat, but someone else may be along in a minute. If you do manage to idenify a faulty relay in the BCM, then a search of the Farnell and RS components websites should get you a replacement at reasonable cost.
If it's just the relay, replacing it should fix the BCM without further issues.
You can work similar magic with stuff like microswitches in tailgate handles that would otherwise cost you a fortune to replace from Fiat.
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I still think it could be a loom problem. If you are intending to bypass the BCM anyway, why not run some additional wires from the wiper connector to the BCM connector and splice the wires. If it works you won't have to bother with any non standard bits, and if it doesn't it will only cost you a few feet of wire and some connectors.
If it was me, I would trace the wires and just replace the sections across the bulkhead and the wiper connector , as they are the most likely failure points.
I too have never seen a Panda BCM fail without screwing up everything else, and then only one, probably caused by some muppet zorching it while wiring in an insane bass box in the boot.
If it was me, I would trace the wires and just replace the sections across the bulkhead and the wiper connector , as they are the most likely failure points.
I too have never seen a Panda BCM fail without screwing up everything else, and then only one, probably caused by some muppet zorching it while wiring in an insane bass box in the boot.
