Technical Battery Light On & Power Steering Failure on First Start Up

[SpudGunner]

Battery Light On & Power Steering Failure on First Start Up

OK, I have this problem and have seen posts on forums etc about the Battery Light being on & Power Steering Failure on first start up.

I have never really seen a resolution, just suggestions, but to be clear I have replaced earth cables, alternator and battery and the issue is still current! (pardon the pun!!)

There are no codes recorded and it always occurs on first start up, if you start the car the battery symbol is on and the power steering is stiff. However, by then turning off the car and starting again it clears the issue. In fact you can put the ignition on so all the lights on the dash are illuminated (but not start the engine), then go back one click with the key before actually starting the car and it will start normally.

I have investigated and the only suggestion has been that it could be the BCM and allegedly there is an update for the BCM for the Punto but nobody has any details.

Has anyone actually fixed this fault and can point me (and others) in the right direction?

 

[bugsymike]

Some time ago I passed on information from a PMM Professional Motor piece regarding Fiat starting issues and a software update.
Sorry I can't remember exactly when, but you may be able to trawl through my past comments or try and find it Online at PMM.

 

[SpudGunner]

Some time ago I passed on information from a PMM Professional Motor piece regarding Fiat starting issues and a software update.
Sorry I can't remember exactly when, but you may be able to trawl through my past comments or try and find it Online at PMM.

Thanks... not many posts to go through!

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks... not many posts to go through!

Try PMM.

 

[varesecrazy]

https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/i...rd-battery-varta-battery.497352/#post-4659929

 

[bugsymike]

Not sure if it is relevant. But does relate to a software update for starting.
It took me a little longer to find it.

 

[varesecrazy]

It took me a little longer to find it.

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[GrandePunto PL]

Who swapped the alternator and battery? You or some "grease monkey"?

About 99% cases of battery light on + power steering off is a result of:
- bad ground,
- bad positive lead,
- bad connections somewhere else (ECU, "excitation" line D+),
- bad alternator (or cheapest one or "refurbished" with cheapest parts, especially regulator),
- therefore bad battery (replacing alternator is not enough - charge the battery outside the car with proper charger and/or check with a battery tester).

Brand new battery can be discharged/worn a bit too (because it was probably sitting on the shelf for couple months, without maintenance).

Aftermarket alternators (unlike original, Denso) can be "incompatible" with the ECU, so it does not recognize D+ line correctly (therefore batt. light - note this is digital, ECU processes the D+ "signal" and sends it via CAN to the gages/dash, this is not a classic "excitation" circuit).
When the batt. ligh is on and steering is out, check the voltage - alternator is probably working (charging) fine, so it's "just" a (ECU <-> D+) "communication" problem (but the battery condition plays big role here).

 

[SpudGunner]

Who swapped the alternator and battery? You or some "grease monkey"?

About 99% cases of battery light on + power steering off is a result of:
- bad ground,
- bad positive lead,
- bad connections somewhere else (ECU, "excitation" line D+),
- bad alternator (or cheapest one or "refurbished" with cheapest parts, especially regulator),
- therefore bad battery (replacing alternator is not enough - charge the battery outside the car with proper charger and/or check with a battery tester).

Brand new battery can be discharged/worn a bit too (because it was probably sitting on the shelf for couple months, without maintenance).

Aftermarket alternators (unlike original, Denso) can be "incompatible" with the ECU, so it does not recognize D+ line correctly (therefore batt. light - note this is digital, ECU processes the D+ "signal" and sends it via CAN to the gages/dash, this is not a classic "excitation" circuit).
When the batt. ligh is on and steering is out, check the voltage - alternator is probably working (charging) fine, so it's "just" a (ECU <-> D+) "communication" problem (but the battery condition plays big role here).

Thanks very much for taking the time to answer, much appreciated.

I have been restoring this car and the cables and alternator were replaced with original parts by a non-grease monkey but still gave the same fault. The battery was condition tested and fully charged before putting on the car.

Looking more like BCM/ECU and D+ issue!

 

[GrandePunto PL]

ECU and Body Computer are "diagnosing" the power condition, but too fast. One of the solutions is replacing the Body and/or re-programming.
https://aftersales.fiat.com/elearns...Service News&validityName=1.4 16v&isExaminer=

 

[SpudGunner]

ECU and Body Computer are "diagnosing" the power condition, but too fast. One of the solutions is replacing the Body and/or re-programming.
https://aftersales.fiat.com/elearnsections/main.aspx?nodeID=199929192&languageID=2&markID=1&modelID=199000000&valID=199000004&prodID=199000000&modelName=Fiat - 199 - Grande Punto&langDesc=English&sectionName=Service News&validityName=1.4 16v&isExaminer=

Thanks GrandePunto PL, that makes perfect sense based on what I've found during my investigations, but it is the first time someone has pointed me in the direction of a solution!

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks GrandePunto PL, that makes perfect sense based on what I've found during my investigations, but it is the first time someone has pointed me in the direction of a solution!

Is that roughly the same information I wrote in answer to your original post after reading a bit in PMM magagazine.
Not being funny, it is just I have never had to sort that issue on any Fiats and curious if my information was correct.
"Oct 26, 2023

• Some time ago I passed on information from a PMM Professional Motor piece regarding Fiat starting issues and a software update.
  Sorry I can't remember exactly when, but you may be able to trawl through my past comments or try and find it Online at PMM."
  

 

[SpudGunner]

Is that roughly the same information I wrote in answer to your original post after reading a bit in PMM magagazine.
Not being funny, it is just I have never had to sort that issue on any Fiats and curious if my information was correct.
"Oct 26, 2023

• Some time ago I passed on information from a PMM Professional Motor piece regarding Fiat starting issues and a software update.
  Sorry I can't remember exactly when, but you may be able to trawl through my past comments or try and find it Online at PMM."

Hi, yes it is the same as what you had suggested but this time there was a link to the actual update.
I have just put up with the on-off-on key movement as a work around as was unable to identify the possible fix searching in the forum or online and neither was the local dealer.
Will let you know if it works.

 

[Leroypanda]

Hi, yes it is the same as what you had suggested but this time there was a link to the actual update.
I have just put up with the on-off-on key movement as a work around as was unable to identify the possible fix searching in the forum or online and neither was the local dealer.
Will let you know if it works.

Did it?

 

[SpudGunner]

Did it?

Unfortunately my Mother is poorly at the moment and taking priority, when I get round to doing this I'll let you know!

 

[Wilsonwilson11]

Some time ago I passed on information from a PMM Professional Motor piece regarding Fiat starting issues and a software update.
Sorry I can't remember exactly when, but you may be able to trawl through my past comments or try and find it Online at PMM.

Hi
Does this software update work? I have exactly the same problem on my Fiat 500 and literally booked it in for this to be done tomorrow

 

[bugsymike]

Hi
Does this software update work? I have exactly the same problem on my Fiat 500 and literally booked it in for this to be done tomorrow

I believe it did according to that PMM trade piece as they are a well respected Trade Magazine. Sorry I no longer have the details.

 

[Wilsonwilson11]

I believe it did according to that PMM trade piece as they are a well respected Trade Magazine. Sorry I no longer have the details.

I’ve got the link you shared that shows the guide on what the dealerships do to reprogram so I’ve bit the bullet and booked it in with them tomorrow
The car has had an engine replacement and this fault wasn’t there prior to the engine being replaced. All I can think is that there’s a communication error somewhere

 

[GrandePunto PL]

This is not "communication error", but software error.
Some modules (it can be Body, ECU, power steering) are overreacting while diagnosing the supply voltages during the engine startup (alternator needs some time and RPM to start charging). Power delivery is checked while starter is still cranking!
Maybe hardware is contributing too (for example old dried capacitors somewhere on the PCB boards, so the natural voltage drop is even bigger).

 

[SpudGunner]

I’ve got the link you shared that shows the guide on what the dealerships do to reprogram so I’ve bit the bullet and booked it in with them tomorrow
The car has had an engine replacement and this fault wasn’t there prior to the engine being replaced. All I can think is that there’s a communication error somewhere

That's brilliant.... Fingers crossed that it works for you.... Let us know how you get on please ... Plus how much they charge!