General 2013 1.2 pop towbar advise

[Leroypanda]

Im looking to get a towbar fitted, ive checked the vin plate and the first figure is 2020 the 2nd figure is 1420 so i think im ok to tow.

Question is whats the best towbar kit for a 1.2 and what electrics kit do i need? i believe i also need a bypass ?relay

Any links to what i need? im getting an adult (professional)) to fit it.

 

[varesecrazy]

What do you plan to tow.. and how often?

Fixed or demountable..?

7 or 13 pin wiring..??

the list goes on..

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Im looking to get a towbar fitted, ive checked the vin plate and the first figure is 2020 the 2nd figure is 1420 so i think im ok to tow.

Question is whats the best towbar kit for a 1.2 and what electrics kit do i need? i believe i also need a bypass ?relay

Any links to what i need? im getting an adult (professional)) to fit it.

Yes, you need a bypass relay. If you are buying a new trailer, or planning to use a fairly new one, it will have a 13 pin trailer wiring plug - not the older 7 pin type.

As to type of towbar, three choices - one that is always there (so you'll bang your shin on it every time you go to the boot), one that detaches 'horizontally' (so it comes off but you can still see the 'gubbins' under the car when its not fitted), or one which detaches vertically which is invisible when detached. These are in order of cost, from cheapest to most expensive!

Take a look here - https://towequipe.co.uk/towbars/fiat/panda - seem to be about the best price and these are made in Italy so conform to the right EU standard but without the cost of the German-made ones. The UK-made Witter bars seem 'cluncky' by comparison and are more expensive. (Looks like a huge choice - basically they list the three options above, for the 'regular' Panda, or the 4x4/Cross model (because the Cross/4x4 are higher off the groudn, the tow bar bracket is different for this model so the towball is at the right height)

For wiring, you can use a 'universal kit' (cheaper), or a 'dedicated' one for the car (better fit and no cutting into the existing wires using 'quick fit' or 'Scothlok' connectors -- these are not great on the thin wires of modern cars). There are wiring kits listed on the Towequipe website, but the dedicated kit from this site https://www.pfjones.co.uk/towbar-wi...at-panda-2012-onwards-towbar-wiring-kits.html is better still as it wires into the fuse box inside the car, rather than direct to the battery via the front wing, which I would say is a safer route. The 13 pin wiring cost more as it connects to more things (including providing a power supply to a towed caravan).


Your 'professional' should be able to advise best from all these options If it were me, I'd chose vertical detach (so not there when not needed, and less left when detached to 'catch' on rough ground with my 4x4) and dedicated 13 pins wiring (as neatest and most versatile/future-proof option) - but that does come in as the most expensive choice!)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Im looking to get a towbar fitted, ive checked the vin plate and the first figure is 2020 the 2nd figure is 1420 so i think im ok to tow.

Question is whats the best towbar kit for a 1.2 and what electrics kit do i need? i believe i also need a bypass ?relay

Any links to what i need? im getting an adult (professional)) to fit it.

Many years ago I built a half ton two wheel unbraked trailer 5ftx3ft load space. Ideal project for someone who has learned to weld with a Manual Metal Arc welder. Ever since - probably 40 years now - I've fitted my car with a tow bar and "simple" electrics. The mechanical parts I've found quite simple to fit. But removing and, often making a neat job of modifying, the rear bumper can be a bit of a pain. The electrics are pretty simple as long as you are not a complete novice but I really do not like those (often blue coloured) "piggy back" connectors. I've had a couple of poor connections which have developed later on with these and were not that easy to find. Now I know this can be a problem it's one of the first things I look for. However on my own cars I always go with soldered connections.

Now that I no longer have Felicity (1992 Panda) or Tony (1999 SEAT Cordoba vario) I don't have a car with a tow bar on it so can't use the trailer. I have the choice of either Becky (our "new" 2010 Panda 1.2) or Twinkle (my SEAT Ibiza ST 1.0). I'm veering towards Becky because the Ibiza, with it's small turbo petrol engine and, maybe "fragile" gearbox, has LED rear lights which might give me problems whereas Becky has bulbs. I also feel that the way the turbo engine delivers it's power makes it less suitable. (lag at low rpm in particular).

I'm greatly in favour of using relays because then the current to drive the bulbs in the trailer will not be flowing through any of the car's systems - in the "old days" this was often a cause of brake light switch failure where the current would often be doubled! Of course with LEDs you must isolate and may experience problems even then with dashboard warning lights.

The last thing that's running through my mind is that you should check with your insurer. Most will automatically give cover - only 3rd party though - for small trailers. I've insured with a specialist insurer for many years and they insured me on the above basis very happily. BUT I did tell them that it was a home built trailer and that I'd fitted my own tow bar. They wanted to know more about my skill level - luckily I am a qualified motor mechanic with welding certificates - whereupon they were happy. I believe that a home fitted tow bar done on a DIY basis might cause you problems if it came to making a claim? So be just a little careful on that one.

Where smaller cars and trailers are concerned, payload becomes a significant factor. We know from the plate on the car what the max weight allowed is but that includes the trailer itself doesn't it? So how much can we actually put in the trailer and still stay legal? Our local weighbridge would weigh the trailer for me at a price. Or sometimes if you take some scrap to a scrap metal dealer they will weigh the car + trailer when loaded and then the car + trailer empty so they can calculate the weight of scrap for value to pay you. If you can get the print out and know the kerbside weight of your car, you can work out the trailer's weight and so how much is left over for the pay load. Phew! far too complicate for a simpleton like me! Instead of all this just weigh the trailer on a good quality set of bathroom scales!

Ok, but how? Jack up one wheel and slide the scale under, let it down on it and record the value. Repeat for the other wheel and then the draw bar. Add the three values together. You're done! I thought about this for quite a while and couldn't think of any reason it wouldn't be accurate as long as the scales were accurate. Then the Police had a blitz on trailers and I saw quite a few being stopped which spooked me a bit as I'd been running around with engines, gearboxes, suspension components and all my gardening equipment in it (not all at the same time of course) but I thought the engines and the gardening machinery etc might be pushing it a bit, so I made up a simple support to balance the trailer at it's centre of gravity on top of the scales. Guess what? when I subtracted the (nominal) weight of the support the figure obtained was as near as damn it, the same as the sum of the three I'd previously taken. Quite a few years later I had the chance of weighing it for free on a professional weighbridge which confirmed that my DIY efforts years before were within a "smidgeon" of being correct.

However I wish you well with your project. I hate knowing my trailer can't be used "at the drop of a hat" just now and I'm thinking of getting professional quotes for fitment just to keep my insurer really happy - cost will probably be the decider at the end of the day though. Once you are up and running you'll wonder how you ever did without one.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

By the way folks, why can't I "like" any but the original post in this thread? I've noticed previously that in some threads the buttons are available and in others not but, for the life of me, can't figure out why?

 

[varesecrazy]

Back in the day when I towed caravans

We went for our 1st TurboDiesel..
A tipo.. nearly new with a digital dash

The manual stated.. the wiring for a towbar NEEDED to go to the dashboard

I fitted my own bar.. then took it to an auto electricians for the wiring

8.5hrs later they were done

But it worked beatifully.. the icon of a trailer on the dash flashed.. :cool

Years later I was gifted a 1.4 tipo ..the towing kit was 'scotchlocked' ( like all my old bike trailer towing vehicles..)
Apart from the annoying buzzer in the boot.. it worked faultlessly

So the extra 7 hours of work seemed a little pointless..


Does the panda dash have a towing Icon?

Legal requirement was:
Audible/ Visual repeater confirmation
(Indicators on 'trailer'.)

Hence the naff buzzers : 'Exterminate'..!!

But a smart LED is probably easy nowadays

 

[varesecrazy]

By the way folks, why can't I "like" any but the original post in this thread? I've noticed previously that in some threads the buttons are available and in others not but, for the life of me, can't figure out why?

No thumb..or smiley icons?

I sometimes see its just a thumb...

Only a smiley for something youve commented on..??

 

[chris3234]

Back in the day when I towed caravans

We went for our 1st TurboDiesel..
A tipo.. nearly new with a digital dash

The manual stated.. the wiring for a towbar NEEDED to go to the dashboard

I fitted my own bar.. then took it to an auto electricians for the wiring

8.5hrs later they were done

But it worked beatifully.. the icon of a trailer on the dash flashed.. :cool

Years later I was gifted a 1.4 tipo ..the towing kit was 'scotchlocked' ( like all my old bike trailer towing vehicles..)
Apart from the annoying buzzer in the boot.. it worked faultlessly

So the extra 7 hours of work seemed a little pointless..


Does the panda dash have a towing Icon?

Legal requirement was:
Audible/ Visual repeater confirmation
(Indicators on 'trailer'.)

Hence the naff buzzers : 'Exterminate'..!!

But a smart LED is probably easy nowadays

Towing indicator?
Can't say I've ever seen them in a car I've been in that's has towed

 

[Leroypanda]

thanks guys, id only be towing an erde 122 small metal trailer for a little extra boot space on tip runs ,diy trips etc.

The only thing bothering me is the wiring, i think id like the dedicated kit.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

No thumb..or smiley icons?

I sometimes see its just a thumb...

Only a smiley for something youve commented on..??

Now that's really weird. The icons have just suddenly become available!?

 

[The Panda Nut]

thanks guys, id only be towing an erde 122 small metal trailer for a little extra boot space on tip runs ,diy trips etc.

The only thing bothering me is the wiring, i think id like the dedicated kit.

I used a dedicated kit for my Panda and I can confirm its significantly neater that doing the job from scratch. My reason was to ensure there are no warranty issues. I still had to tap into the RFL and the reversing light wires. and run the power from front to back, but the instructions were very clear and easy.

The kit was from a firm in Scarborough and was the cheapest I saw in the net. Help line staff also very helpful.

My bar was sourced from ebay supplier and was very cheap but I had to wait and watch to get the right deal. Will try and find the web address.

 

[The Panda Nut]

No it does not have dash repeater. The turn signal buzzer works on bulb failure not on operation on the wiring kit which is nice too.

 

[varesecrazy]

Its funny ..
as I finished towing.. late 90's

All the talk was of 'type approval' etc where only Witter and Brink were going to do all the FEA to meet the stringent new regs.. and towbars would start at £500

I dont think it ever happened..

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Its funny ..
as I finished towing.. late 90's

All the talk was of 'type approval' etc where only Witter and Brink were going to do all the FEA to meet the stringent new regs.. and towbars would start at £500

I dont think it ever happened..

It did happen but in a different way. EU rules were introduced to stop car makers insisting that only their own parts (and oils etc!) could be used to retain warranty. All car manufacturers have to either not permit a vehicle to tow, or, include during manufacture the necessary anchor points to allow a towbar from any manufacturer to be fitted using those fitting points. And the towbar had to show it conformed to the fixing points by being approved too. The Panda makes this easy by using the rear crash bar mounting as the main fixing and being provided with the necessary cut-outs and holes in the rear 'chassis legs' at teh factory. This means (1) that the towbar is very easy to fit and (2) that it cannot really be fitted incorrectly. See here for a partial description of this https://www.towsure.com/towbars-ec-type-approval

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Towing indicator?
Can't say I've ever seen them in a car I've been in that's has towed

My old Vauxhall Omega had a towing indicator tell tale in amongst the warning lights (symbol shaped like a towbar, usefully). And the LandRover Defender does too - see photo (suspect other LRs might have as well)... but admit not seen on dash of most cars.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

thanks guys, id only be towing an erde 122 small metal trailer for a little extra boot space on tip runs ,diy trips etc.

The only thing bothering me is the wiring, i think id like the dedicated kit.

That trailer will be fine, it weighs 65kg unladen, and is limited to the same max weight that the Panda is allowed to tow in an un-braked trailer - 400kg - so you can load 335kg into it.

http://www.erdetrailer.co.uk/erde-122-trailer-specification/

 

[Leroypanda]

Blimey that dedicated wiring is a LOT more than a universal kit , If i get a pro in to do it is it REALLY that much better to have the dedicated kit?

 

[varesecrazy]

The Panda makes this easy by using the rear crash bar mounting as the main fixing and being provided with the necessary cut-outs and holes in the rear 'chassis legs' at the factory. This means (1) that the towbar is very easy to fit and (2) that it cannot really be fitted incorrectly

Thanks for the full explanation..

Pretty sure the 1980's tipo had pilot holes in all the right places too
Which was a 1st for me.. older cars needed lots of planning..'offering up'..etc

But I suppose the dash icon ( twin wheel flat bed) was another part of its 'readiness'

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Blimey that dedicated wiring is a LOT more than a universal kit , If i get a pro in to do it is it REALLY that much better to have the dedicated kit?

I don’t like Scotcklok connectors - very good and very quick, but with 6 or more close together it all becomes very bulky (leading to rattles behind the trim), and with wires as thin as they are in the Panda (and all modern cars) there’s a greater risk of the wire breaking or the voltage/current being affected which can lead to warning messages or error codes. The dedicated kit uses the original plug connectors for the critical circuits (although does still use Sotchlok for reverse and fog light wires) - so should be more reliable. If car less than three years old, using a universal kit gives Fiat a ‘get out’ if any warranty claims arise too.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Do a search for ESC wiring kits - there’s a few out there from towing companies and on eBay for around £110-120 for the dedicated 13pin kit, less than half price.