General 2010 Fiat Panda - Parts recommendation

[koalar]

There's literally 100s of causes for lack of power,

What normally happen on forums is someone says what it was on their car, the original poster changes that part it either fixs it or doesn't, then the cycle repeats

Assuming it's a petrol

Anything to do with the

Ignition
Fuel
Air
Compression
Timing
Throttle pedal
Allong with associated sensors

It's better to try and diagnose the problem than taking the scatter gun approach

Read the code would be first, hopefully it will come back with something useful not a generic misfire code

Post a photo of all 4 spark plugs in order some times helps

I normally start by pulling the MAP sensor, they often get covered in oil, it's only one bolt and free

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

So first big trip recap in as few words possible - not great.

I was driving down to Lake District which seemed fine, the car was pulling back a bit though and had a distinct lack of power. At one point the light for Injection System Failure came on. It disappeared but of course the lack of power remained.

For those that are a dab hand, what should I be looking at to get it sorted?

edit: I’ve another trip on Wednesday so need the car for then. I’m going to get an OBD scanner via Prime today to check lights so if anyone can link what I need (plus cables or anything) that’d be amazing! Found a few places talking about what OBD scanner to get but I want to make sure it’s correct and gets here by tomorrow.

Really really honestly, if you've got a PC, don't waste your money on anything else, Buy Multiecuscan. http://www.multiecuscan.net/ I've read many posts on here about folk who've been misled by results obtained from cheap code readers/scanners.

Hanging back? Our Panda was doing this a little, improved a lot when I cleaned the MAP sensor. It's in the side of the throttle body, held in by just one screw. It's a really easy job to do. Here's a video on the subject. It's in Italian but you can easily see what he's doing:



He's got a couple of spray cans of "stuff", the reddish coloured one I'd guess is a "proper" sensor cleaner I do use this myself, this is what I've been using currently but there are many other brands available: https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/gb/air-flow-sensor-cleaner-p000537.html#4066 but I've heard brake cleaner works just as well? The other -WD40 can - is most probably a contact cleaner which you probably don't need to use unless the plug and socket contacts look dirty/contaminated. I also like to apply a wee bit of terminal protector before reassembling the plug. I use Contralube 770: https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p/contralube-770-the-terminal-connector

Edit. Koalar is obviously much quicker with his typing than me! As he says, Starting with a code read is what I'd do too. Cleaning the MAP sensor is so quick and easy it's worth doing anyway because, as he says, you'll often find it contaminated with oil from the breather system - I do mine at service time every year now.

 

[koalar]

This is known to work easy to use just plug in

C reader 30001

Engine only, but about as cheap as you can go with data logging of the sensors

Just plug it in and away you go

A £5 blue tooth dongle work if you have an Android smart phone, If you have an iPhone the Bluetooth isn't standard you have to make sure it's designed to work with an iPhone and cost is higher

They can be a faf to get the app/software to communicate, but sometime it just works

If you have a laptop this opens up a lot of other possibilities such as multiecuscan

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

This is known to work easy to use just plug in

C reader 30001

Engine only, but about as cheap as you can go with data logging of the sensors

I've seen reference to this before. Launch is a well thought of maker so I'm sure it'll be a good product. Been giving passing attention to it as I'm thinking of a tool with a wider makes application for looking after the growing range of makes owned in our family - not so long ago it was pretty much Fiat and VAG products, now we've got a couple of Fiats, a couple of VAGs. a Kia and a Mazda. I do like my laptop based stuff (VCDS and MES) but, as I'm "friendly" with Grant at Gendan I've been asking his advice and he's recommending I look at the Foxwell range of hand held devices. Early days yet, not sure what I'll end up with. Anyway, want a battery analyser first and he's quoted me a good price on the Foxwell BT 715: https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FXBT715.html Probably a bit of an overkill for what I need, Don't need to be able to do 24 volts for a start, but I'm very tempted. I'd love a PicoScope too, but I know that's never going to happen.

 

[JoleePando]

Really really honestly, if you've got a PC, don't waste your money on anything else, Buy Multiecuscan. http://www.multiecuscan.net/ I've read many posts on here about folk who've been misled by results obtained from cheap code readers/scanners.

Amazing! I’ll check it out. I’m assuming I’ll still need some sort of cable for the car, yeah? I knew the scan was the first thing to do so I’m not just going in blindly

Sitting in a pub with bad signal waiting to go home so searching around online for answers is taking a long time!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Amazing! I’ll check it out. I’m assuming I’ll still need some sort of cable for the car, yeah? I knew the scan was the first thing to do so I’m not just going in blindly

Sitting in a pub with bad signal waiting to go home so searching around online for answers is taking a long time!

You buy and download the program on line then you need the connector leads. Depending on what you want to do you may not need all the leads. I have the multiplex version, a bit expensive but I like it because I can do a whole vehicle scan without changing from one lead to another.

Gendan sell the connectors: https://www.gendan.co.uk/multiecusc...MfmKxcj51-5uB45Wf1FSl1mwBzNK43kEaAnGhEALw_wcB but other providers are available.

If you want you can download the software and run it in simulate mode for free - at least you could last time I checked? (There's also a small amount of functionality in the free version but you'll still need to buy connectors to use it. If you scroll down the link I gave you above there's video which shows you what the screen looks like in use.

 

[koalar]

Free version of multiecuscan works fine for most egine modules

I use a switched KKL vag com cable under ten pounds

Connects to ABS, EPS, airbag and engine without any adaptors

Will not connect to the body computer

The most reliable and versable cable would be an older ELM 327 v1.3+ and you will have less timing issues if it's a cable usb type not bluetooth

You will need extra adaptors to connect to different modules


I no longer use MES as I have a Delphi 150 multiplexer which allows me to connect to any module on any make or model vehicle, my main grip with MES is for some Panda models the short and long term trims are missing, this is the main diagnostic tool for determing whether to car is running correctly


I have a cheap Bluetooth elm permently fitted to my car, it really handy to be able to read and clear codes without any tools except for a phone,

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Free version of multiecuscan works fine for most egine modules

I use a switched KKL vag com cable under ten pounds

Connects to ABS, EPS, airbag and engine without any adaptors

Will not connect to the body computer

The most reliable and versable cable would be an older ELM 327 v1.3+ and you will have less timing issues if it's a cable usb type not bluetooth

You will need extra adaptors to connect to different modules


I no longer use MES as I have a Delphi 150 multiplexer which allows me to connect to any module on any make or model vehicle, my main grip with MES is for some Panda models the short and long term trims are missing, this is the main diagnostic tool for determing whether to car is running correctly


I have a cheap Bluetooth elm permently fitted to my car, it really handy to be able to read and clear codes without any tools except for a phone,

Oh I really like this post koalar. Most concise.

I use cables with both my VCDS and MES because I just don't trust blue tooth - also keep the laptop powered up with the mains lead. If you "loose" the computer on some of the VCDS functions it's catastrophic!

Absolutely agree about the frustration of not being able to access fuel trims with MES. "Learned Fuel Values" "Lamda Sensor Integrator" and Mixture Correction Learning Value" interest us a lot, especially as they are quoted in %ages, as you'd expect with fuel trims? Grant and I - Gendan - have had a few interesting exchanges about this but we've not reached any definite conclusions

So, in your experience, is this a MES problem. I can't get MES do do fuel trims on our Panda. Is this because MES just can't do it, or is it becasue the ECU doesn't output fuel trims? I'm hoping that when I eventually buy my "all make" scanner it will be able to extract fuel trims from these cars.

 

[koalar]

@Pugglt Auld Jock
A cheap scanner reads fuel trims fine on all fiats so it's just omitted from MES

I also have no problem with delphi or WoW

MES reads the fuel trim fine on some models fine it's called something else in italian and well hidden. From memory on the Panda it depends on year.


Because it uses a feedback loop from the O2 sensor cars can compensate quite well to ignition and fuel faults by adding or subtracting from the injector timings. But as soon as you look at the trims it jump out that its will be a large way from zero. Most car throw a code but the Panda can run maxed out at 100% without a code.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

@Pugglt Auld Jock
A cheap scanner reads fuel trims fine on all fiats so it's just omitted from MES

I also have no problem with delphi or WoW

MES reads the fuel trim fine on some models fine it's called something else in italian and well hidden. From memory on the Panda it depends on year.


Because it uses a feedback loop from the O2 sensor cars can compensate quite well to ignition and fuel faults by adding or subtracting from the injector timings. But as soon as you look at the trims it jump out that its will be a large way from zero. Most car throw a code but the Panda can run maxed out at 100% without a code.

Thanks.

 

[JoleePando]

Free version of multiecuscan works fine for most egine modules

I use a switched KKL vag com cable under ten pounds

Connects to ABS, EPS, airbag and engine without any adaptors

Will not connect to the body computer

The most reliable and versable cable would be an older ELM 327 v1.3+ and you will have less timing issues if it's a cable usb type not bluetooth

You will need extra adaptors to connect to different modules


I no longer use MES as I have a Delphi 150 multiplexer which allows me to connect to any module on any make or model vehicle, my main grip with MES is for some Panda models the short and long term trims are missing, this is the main diagnostic tool for determing whether to car is running correctly


I have a cheap Bluetooth elm permently fitted to my car, it really handy to be able to read and clear codes without any tools except for a phone,

Nice one! I’ve had a look on Amazon at what you’ve mentioned, anything there in particular you’d recommend? I did see this here

 

[koalar]

Nice one! I’ve had a look on Amazon at what you’ve mentioned, anything there in particular you’d recommend? I did see this here

Can't get the link to work on my phone

Struggling to search on Amazon and find anything useful with a phone

Here one on ebay they start around £8

This one has sold 75 so there's a bit of feedback 3 day delivery and free post


Never dealt with the sell so use at your own discretion

Diagnostic USB Cable ELM 327 Modified & Suitable For MultiEcuScan V5.1 | eBay UK

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Diagnostic USB Cable ELM 327 Modified & Suitable For MultiEcuScan V5.1 at the best online prices at eBay UK! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[koalar]

MES sometimes label/hide fuel tims as FRA and DTV

I have no trouble reading fuel trims by a cheap Bluetooth adaptor and phone or my multiplexer

2005 1.2
2006 1.1
2011 12

So it's not a limitations of the ECU

I really like the multiplexer and WOW you can just plug it in and let it cycle through testing all modules, it quite strange when it comes back and tell you which bulb is out even on the basic active models

 

[JoleePando]

Can't get the link to work on my phone

Struggling to search on Amazon and find anything useful with a phone

Here one on ebay they start around £8

This one has sold 75 so there's a bit of feedback 3 day delivery and free post


Never dealt with the sell so use at your own discretion

Diagnostic USB Cable ELM 327 Modified & Suitable For MultiEcuScan V5.1 | eBay UK

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Diagnostic USB Cable ELM 327 Modified & Suitable For MultiEcuScan V5.1 at the best online prices at eBay UK! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

I’m going to try get things sorted before my next trip, so this’ll turn up a little late, though I’ve found the same brand on Amazon so I’ll give it a shot with MES.

EDIT: here’s the link to the one I tried linking first time https://amzn.eu/d/g6aMA1K

Turns out trying to embed Amazon links doesn’t work well as they put text in front of them when sharing from the app.

 

[JoleePando]

Really really honestly, if you've got a PC, don't waste your money on anything else, Buy Multiecuscan. http://www.multiecuscan.net/ I've read many posts on here about folk who've been misled by results obtained from cheap code readers/scanners.

Hanging back? Our Panda was doing this a little, improved a lot when I cleaned the MAP sensor. It's in the side of the throttle body, held in by just one screw. It's a really easy job to do. Here's a video on the subject. It's in Italian but you can easily see what he's doing:

I think I've perhaps confused myself a little with what I'm looking for.

Is it just the scanner I need to use with Multi ECU Scan (like this one) or do I require a specific cable in order to work with the Panda? koalar mentioned a "KKL vag com cable", I'm assuming this is different from what I've linked above.

 

[koalar]

I think I've perhaps confused myself a little with what I'm looking for.

Is it just the scanner I need to use with Multi ECU Scan (like this one) or do I require a specific cable in order to work with the Panda? koalar mentioned a "KKL vag com cable", I'm assuming this is different from what I've linked above.

You only need one


KKL works to read engine codes and sensor, cheapest way,

Or

ELM327 USB also works to read engine codesu but adds some extra functions such as being able to connect to the dash and body computer

 

[JoleePando]

You only need one


KKL works to read engine codes and sensor, cheapest way,

Or

ELM327 USB also works to read engine codesu but adds some extra functions such as being able to connect to the dash and body computer

Brilliant! Cheers for that. I've went for one on Amazon as it'll arrive tomorrow morning so let's hope it works. Will the adapters be required too then in order to fit into the Panda or are these redundant?

 

[koalar]

Brilliant! Cheers for that. I've went for one on Amazon so let's hope it works. Will the adapters be required too then in order to fit into the Panda or are these redundant?

You will probably never need them

Adapters aren't need for connecting to the ECU (Engine codes)

Different modules such as abs, EPS and airbag require the adaptors. Only needed if you have a problem with the ABS or Airbag. Electric Power Steering EPS codes are in conclusive anyhow

 

[koalar]

You can do a bit of prep work

Download the software

Read the manual

Post 5 here by @portland_bill explains how to install the ELM327 USB cable

FiatECUscan | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

I use the FiatECUscan software on my Ducato 2002 without any problems. I tried it on a 1.3 diesel Panda recently and could not make any communication with the ECU. Should I be using the same interface cable as for Ducato? Any advice would be most welcome. Regards Mike

www.fiatforum.com

 

[JoleePando]

You can do a bit of prep work

Download the software

Read the manual

Post 5 here by @portland_bill explains how to install the ELM327 USB cable

FiatECUscan | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

I use the FiatECUscan software on my Ducato 2002 without any problems. I tried it on a 1.3 diesel Panda recently and could not make any communication with the ECU. Should I be using the same interface cable as for Ducato? Any advice would be most welcome. Regards Mike

www.fiatforum.com

So here we go, here's the outcome seen in these pictures:


Is it possible these are due to the new spark plugs being incorrectly fitted?

EDIT: Did those images work as on my browser they show an empty imgur frame.