Technical 2004 Panda 1.1 active - Whining issue?

[timmycm850]

This car is very inconsistent!!!
This current tank, the level started to drop after a few miles, it normally takes 20-30 to move off of full.
Also at 3/4 of a tank with only 60 miles on the trip so far.
I am fairly certain I can smell fuel when the car is running too.
Any ideas?


Edit - I'd say I'm on track to get 220 miles before the fuel light comes on which is about 36-38 mpg I believe. I haven't done most of the driving so far though, my partner has.
It'll be going on a longer 150 mile round trip at the weekend, which will be very interesting!


Thinking out loud here, but a slightly loose alternator belt wouldn't reduce mpg would it?
Just trying to think of all options here.
It starts up fine, sometimes when warm it'll crank for a couple of seconds longer than when it's cold for some reason, but not very often.

I have found that a different petrol station pump can click off at a different level and once it clicks off the first time i can normally get another 3 or 4 more litres in the tank until it is actually visible, would part of the inconsistency be the actual quantity of fill differences.

Tim

 

[Gman88667733]

I have found that a different petrol station pump can click off at a different level and once it clicks off the first time i can normally get another 3 or 4 more litres in the tank until it is actually visible, would part of the inconsistency be the actual quantity of fill differences.

Tim

Interesting thought there. I did consider that actually as the level dropped far sooner than usual. However, the fill up amount was spot on with what I'd expect for the type of driving it had done.
I'll change this pipe over when it turns up on Monday and keep an eye on it. I'm at 102 miles at 2 small chunks over half a tank.

 

[DaveMcT]

My Pandas fills smoothly when the pump is kept at a low angle to the filler neck. Tip it to what feels aligned and it clicks all the time. BUT if yours always struggles to fill at normal speed, you need to check the fuel tank air vent. If it's clogged, the car's fuel pump has to work harder and it can cause strange ECU errors.

 

[Gman88667733]

The new hose is arriving tomorrow with some fresh jubilee clips.
The fuel economy of this tank seems pretty poor. I have noticed quite a hot smell over the past day or so of driving it, are the brakes known for binding on these?
Alternator belt is squealing a bit more on cold starts now, so I'll have to get the spanners out tomorrow to sort that I think!

 

[Gman88667733]

Also, something else I've noticed. Not a major issue, just an observation really. More noticeable when cold, but when you come off the accelerator at lower speeds at higher rpms, the car bucks a little bit. Is this normal? I've had it happen in other cars before, never really thought about it. It feels like the sudden drop of rpm?

 

[rmjbn1]

I have noticed quite a hot smell over the past day or so of driving it, are the brakes known for binding on these?

The rear drums are prone to rusting which, if excessive can cause them to bind.

The handbrake adjusters, also inside the rear drums, can cause binding. As can corrosion in the rear wheel cylinders.

A binding brake will of course cause an increase in fuel consumption.

Touch the brakes after a journey, if one of them is warmer than the others then it's binding. Be careful, though, if it's really binding it can get very hot!

If it does turn out to be an issue, Pugglt Auld Jock did a good write-up on a rear brake overhaul here.

 

[Gman88667733]

Wonderful.
I'll pay attention to the temperature of them over the new few days.

Hoping to fit the new breather pipe this evening and adjust the alternator belt again.

 

[Gman88667733]

I know our journeys aren't ideal for economy, especially on a small engined car, but it's done 225 miles with a chunk under 1/4 of a tank left. Which is a bit poor really. I expect this tank will be mid 30s.
Definitely a hot smell every now and then after getting out of the car too.

My biggest worry with the car is the rear axle. I'll take some good photos tonight, but the cups look quite rusty, I'd like an opinion on it all later if possible, I'm going to attack it with a wire brush (at least what I can without dropping the axle) tonight and see what the underneath is like.

I really like the car, I think it's a cracking car, so I'd like to keep it going for a good few years

 

[Gman88667733]

UPDATE:

Changed the breather pipe. The old one was past it, a lot of crud built up where the pipe goes into the engine though. Still a faint fuel smell though. Not quite as much I think, the test will be if I smell it in the cabin in the morning.(I'll add photos of everything to this post, in order that it's mentioned)
Adjusted the alternator again, so hopefully it doesn't squeak on cold start tomorrow.
Had a good look at the rear axle and cups, gave what I could a brush with the wire brush with the car on the ground. Not sure how bad they look, anyone?

 

[Jockcl500]

UPDATE:

Changed the breather pipe. The old one was past it, a lot of crud built up where the pipe goes into the engine though. Still a faint fuel smell though. Not quite as much I think, the test will be if I smell it in the cabin in the morning.(I'll add photos of everything to this post, in order that it's mentioned)
Adjusted the alternator again, so hopefully it doesn't squeak on cold start tomorrow.
Had a good look at the rear axle and cups, gave what I could a brush with the wire brush with the car on the ground. Not sure how bad they look, anyone?View attachment 206189View attachment 206190View attachment 206191View attachment 206192View attachment 206193View attachment 206194View attachment 206195

The springs and shocks look a right mess and will probably need replacing, everything else could be fine with a wire brush on a electric drill and then rush treatment.
I recommend aquasteel rust treatment by bayerwood
https://www.aquamarinechemicals.com/our-products/rust-converters/
excellent product you can also buy through ebay etc

 

[Gman88667733]

The springs and shocks look a right mess and will probably need replacing, everything else could be fine with a wire brush on a electric drill and then rush treatment.
I recommend aquasteel rust treatment by bayerwood
https://www.aquamarinechemicals.com/our-products/rust-converters/
excellent product you can also buy through ebay etc

Thanks for having a look.
So the cups and axle look okay?

Are the rear springs and shock absorbers fairly easy to do?

Thanks

 

[Jockcl500]

Thanks for having a look.
So the cups and axle look okay?

Are the rear springs and shock absorbers fairly easy to do?

Thanks

Difficult to tell from the photo, but axel looks ok to me, clean and rust treatment should sort it out.
Very easy - remove bolt each end of shockers, should allow the axel to drop enough to remove and replace the springs then jack the axel up a bit and fit new shockers.

 

[Gman88667733]

Difficult to tell from the photo, but axel looks ok to me, clean and rust treatment should sort it out.
Very easy - remove bolt each end of shockers, should allow the axel to drop enough to remove and replace the springs then jack the axel up a bit and fit new shockers.

What needs to be supported/jacked up before I undo the bolts on the shocks?

 

[Jockcl500]

What needs to be supported/jacked up before I undo the bolts on the shocks?

Jack up high and put axel stands under the chassis legs, then support the axel with a jack while removing the shocker bolts, lower the jack, the axel should drop enough to get the springs out replace with new ones and lift the jack again to fit the new shockers. - easy

 

[Gman88667733]

Jack up high and put axel stands under the chassis legs, then support the axel with a jack while removing the shocker bolts, lower the jack, the axel should drop enough to get the springs out replace with new ones and lift the jack again to fit the new shockers. - easy

Thanks for that, I appreciate it.
I'll get everything ordered this weekend I think

 

[Gman88667733]

Still a faint smell of petrol at idle in the cabin.
I put a jubilee clip around the larger pipe as there is a groove for one. The much smaller hose is smooth and hasn't got an area for one. Do I just put on on anyway?

I see in a forum post on here, someone put jubilee clips on all 3 of the connections. I'll give that a go tonight and hope it helps

Annoyingly, the alternator belt still chirped on start up too. I don't want to tighten it too much, so I'm only adjusting it in slight amounts.


This last tank ended up being 40.1 mpg, so not too bad really

 

[09 johno]

while you have the springs and dampers off, treat the axle to some rust killer and a couple of coats of underseal, especially the spring pans.

if you look at an original photo, the hose has clamps on the small pipe as well as both ends of the larger bore. so yes fit a small bore pipe clamp.
That sludge inside the pipe is just more evidence of lack of oil changes makes me wonder what is in the small bore oilways of the rest of the engine..did I mention flushing the engine...…….

 

[Gman88667733]

while you have the springs and dampers off, treat the axle to some rust killer and a couple of coats of underseal, especially the spring pans.

if you look at an original photo, the hose has clamps on the small pipe as well as both ends of the larger bore. so yes fit a small bore pipe clamp.
That sludge inside the pipe is just more evidence of lack of oil changes makes me wonder what is in the small bore oilways of the rest of the engine..did I mention flushing the engine...…….

You did mention. My only concern is that I read horror stories of engines starting to knock or have issues after moving any sludge or build up crap around...
Or do I just risk it? I'd imagine it would free the engine up a lot if it was successful? What brand was it to use?

Edit - don't worry, found the product.

I've covered about 600 miles since the oil change, so I'll give it another tank of fuel and then I'll add the flush, run for 30 mins at idle and then change oil and filter.
Will it be an immediate difference? I assume it would help my fuel economy too?

 

[Gman88667733]

I've ordered the motor flush. I'll order the oil and filter later on.
I'm hoping this will free everything up a bit more and hopefully improve my MPG too...

 

[09 johno]

you may not notice a difference but your engine will thank you. those horror stories are engines that are already beyond hope and the flush has moved some of the metallic debris into bearing shells etc.
the flush will help remove any sludge anything left will be suspended in the new oil and trapped by the oil filter.
If the new oil stays golden then all is good, if it goes black quickly then I would do yet another oil change at about 2-3000 miles.
with an internally cleaned engine there should be less friction and a possible increase in MPG.

I just had another thought, if the sludge is that bad it might be worth during a service dropping the sump pan and giving that a good clean as well, the oil pump pick up is probably sat in thick sludge, I've seen this on classic cars with low oil pressure. The flush should loosen most of this, I wonder if a camera would fit into the sump plug for a look...…..