Technical 2004 Panda 1.1 active - Whining issue?

[Gman88667733]

The steps in the post above will be next weekend’s job I think!
Just been out to it to go for a quick drive and from cold I noticed a few things. The engine took a couple of seconds longer to start than it did this morning/the first time I cold started it. There was a slight squeal as the engine first started and then the same noise again carried on when driving for the quick 5 minute drive I took it on. I assume it will always be worse when cold.

 

[Jockcl500]

How much would it cost for a garage to do such a repair? It has 10 months MOT left and previous MOTs have been reasonably issue free.
I chose this car over a car that was about £500 more, so I have some money leftover that I have set aside for repairs.

Going to do some testing today, but the sound always goes away when you press the clutch pedal in. It sometimes does it faintly when you press the clutch pedal in and then tap the accelerator pedal.

I can do basic maintenance and bits, but I don’t have the tools to do something like a gearbox bearing I wouldn’t think.

I would bet the clutch release/thrust bearing is dry causing the noise, but I would change the clutch kit (3 parts), which consists of friction plate, pressure plate and thrust bearing as the gearbox needs to come out anyway to do the job it makes sense to do it all.

 

[Gman88667733]

I would bet the clutch release/thrust bearing is dry causing the noise, but I would change the clutch kit (3 parts), which consists of friction plate, pressure plate and thrust bearing as the gearbox needs to come out anyway to do the job it makes sense to do it all.

The noise definitely sounds like it’s coming from the alternator.

 

[Jockcl500]

The noise definitely sounds like it’s coming from the alternator.

Sorry I hadn't looked at all the posts, the clutch bearing has a distinctive noise if you press the clutch up and down repeatedly you would hear it alternate.
if the alternator is noisy a completely different noise, it is possible to rule it out by removing the belt, if no noise then alternator bearing is probably the fault.

 

[Gman88667733]

No worries. I’m planning on whipping it off next weekend to tell for sure

 

[koalar]

spray belt with water. Should go quite if its slipping.


is that your car in the video ? I should say that's a constant screech rather than a whine on acceleration.

Although it shouldn't make any difference whether the clutch is up or down but whether the engine is speeding up or down.


example in neutral a slipping belt is normally worse as you blip the throttle and better as it slows down again. A belt would be the same regardless of the clutch pedal

 

[Gman88667733]

It did get louder as I finished the video. At idle when cold it goes quieter and louder on its own without any input from me.

Silicone lubricant spray didn’t quieten the noise really, but I’ll try plain water from a spray bottle when I start it up this morning.

 

[DaveMcT]

A screech from none drive end of engine is likely to be the water pump seals or bearings.

 

[Gman88667733]

Well the first plan is to test the alternator at the weekend and see how it feels.
The noise mostly stops when the car has warmed up after between 5-10 minutes.
On cold start, the engine makes a loudish squeak as it starts for a split second and then before the squealing starts, you can hear what sounds like a dry brush noise, if that makes sense.
Either way, I need to give the car a service at the weekend anyway, so I’ll check the alternator then.

 

[Gman88667733]

Another question, I haven’t got any servicing records for my panda, just repairs and bits.
I am doing a service on it this weekend. Do the spark plugs need to be gapped? I tend to use NGK and they are mostly pre-gapped I believe? I’m also seeing various different sizes. Does anyone have the exact spec needed for the 1.1 active?
Planning on doing, oil + filter and spark plugs + alternator belt at least.
Anything else worth doing? It’s at 37,500 miles and has done mostly short trips all it’s life. The oil is black and fairly thick.
I’ve ordered 5L of 5W40 fully synthetic Triple QX.
Hopefully this is the correct spec. I’ve read a few uncertainties online, but most use it with no issues

Edit - after doing some digging, it seems C3 spec is the one to go for, not A3. So I’ve changed my order to the correct Castro’s Magnatec oil.

 

[rmjbn1]

I've put together my own maintenance checklist for my 1.2 here, hope it's of some help

There's detailed advice on the correct spark plugs for the 1.1 in this recent thread.

 

[rmjbn1]

Oh, and with such a low milage, I'd be surprised if the timing belt has been changed.

If there's no history with the car, then it's safe to assume it hasn't. At 15+ years old it's well overdue.

You should budget £200+ for this, and it's worth replacing the water pump at the same time.

If the belt is old you'll be able to see cracks in the rubber. You'd need to remove the plastic cover on the left hand side of the engine to gain access.

It's a non-interference engine, so if the timing belt does let go, it shouldn't do any internal damage (but will leave you stranded and a flailing belt can do some damage of its own).

 

[Gman88667733]

I am planning a cambelt and water pump change.
I want to get the service out of the way first and see if I can sort this squeal from the alternator. Oil and spark plugs have arrived, all new wipers on their way. Alternator belt on its way too as I may as well change it for the sake of £7.99 for a belt.
Just need to work out which oil filter I need to get.

I’m hoping after the full service the Mpg will go up a bit, currently sat at half a tank at 150 miles with mixed driving conditions. I think it should be a tad more than that. But given I have no record of a service and the oil is so dark and thick, I think it hasn’t actually had a service for a very long time. So hoping a service and a good blast will get me a few extra mpg?

 

[Gman88667733]

Just been and checked the oil again. Under the filler cap is thick brownish sludge and the oil is dark brown, like mud essentially.
Well, well, well overdue a change. I fear it hasn’t had one since the last documented one in 2006, 28k miles ago..... that’ll be the top priority later this week

I expect this is all caused by the old lady using it for 2k miles a year, so build up of condensation in there

 

[rmjbn1]

Well, it's not a very big fuel tank 150 miles on half a tank sounds about right.

First thing I did when I got my car was cleaned throttle body & MAP sensor along with new plugs and air filter (as part of a full service), plus a bottle of injector cleaner in a full tank of fuel and a decent amount of welly.

I know there are mixed views on the old 'Italian tune-up', but if I suspect a car's been pootled about in then I like to clear its throat a bit, even if modern cars don't soot up like they used to.

If the induction side is clean and spark is good, then yes I'd agree it helps to keep the engine running efficiently. Correct tyre pressures and avoiding carrying excess weight probably has a bigger impact on mpg. The biggest improvement I've had in mpg (about 5%) is down to fitting a rear spoiler to my Panda.

 

[irc]

You might want to hold off with the "full" Italian tune-up until you've changed the cam belt... Not an interference engine, but if it's been pootling around for years and is 7 or 8 years overdue, you may end up on a recovery truck!
Might be worth an oil/filter change, few hundred "slightly harder" miles, and then another oil change.
Should get rid of the mayo and sludge.
Filters are cheap as chips, and oil can be got pretty cheap too.

 

[Gman88667733]

Oil is already here, filter is arriving on Wednesday.
Got a new sump plug coming too, plus air filter (the current one looks a bit nasty). To go along with the spark plugs and whilst I am at it, i'll clean the throttle body as it can't hurt really.

Do I need to panic and really rush to get the oil changed before driving it more? The engine sounds like it runs great, I just can't believe how old the oil is in it...

Will new fresh Castrol Magnatec oil give it a new lease of life and I can stop worrying about the state of the old oil?

Only had it for a couple of days, but already really fond of it. It's such a characterful little car. I just want to get it into tip top mechanical shape, or at least as much as I can myself.

Also forgot to add, I’ve got a new steel wire brush coming as well to give the rear axle + cups a good brushing as they are looking a little worse for wear. No advisories on any of the MOTs though, a fair few for the rear springs being slightly corroded, but not sure this means the cups they set in as well? Hoping that brushing the worst off and coating it with some old engine oil will protect it a bit more.


Edit - also had a closer look at the alternator belt and it is very worn and has lots of little cracks in it. So will change that first and you never know... may cure the noise? I somewhat doubt it, but worth a try as a first attempt..!!

 

[koalar]

 

[Gman88667733]

Fuel economy is definitely a bit off I think. But as I say, I expect the spark plugs haven’t been changed since the 2006 service. Plus the oil and air filter. So I expect that’s got to get a bit of an increase!
Probably doesn’t help to drive home is very, very uphill and it does that twice a day. I expect it’ll average at 35ish for this first tank with us.

 

[DaveMcT]

The alternator belt will be the same age as the cam belt. If it's cracked across the ribs you can be sure the cam belt will be cracking at the base of the timing teeth.

Personally I would do the belts and water pump then fill with cheap oil and thrash it for 1000 miles. Then change the oil and filter for some good stuff. Cheap oils stop doing the job more quickly than expensive oils. 1000 miles should make no difference to the oil's ability so why spend the extra money?