Technical 1.3 white smoke (only when COLD)

[Cochyn]

Hiya guys, looking for some 1.3 Multijet gurus. Newbie here, bought a bit of a banger Doblo van with 103k miles to turn into a camper and I have an issue….which seems to have been covered loads! So just wondering if injectors need checking?? Symptoms below:

- 1.3 Multijet 90bhp engine, smokes white/grey when cold but no issues of any kind when up to temp.

- Fluid/oil levels unaffected and nothing mixing.

- glow plugs checked and all fine.

- no overheating or dash lights etc runs perfect from the turn of the key.

- turbo is very noticeable in whine in low gears, but boosts fine and no oil on either side of the compressor housing.

Apart from the fact it’s an old business van and restricted to 70mph it’s running really smoothly.

Any advice would be great! Cheers, Al

 

[bugsymike]

White smoke and possible slow starting in cold weather on a diesel is usually down to unburnt fuel. The colder the weather gets the more the problem will be, also putting extra strain on the starter and battery.
The slower the starter spins the lower the compression it can build up so aggravating the problem.
This can be proved by smelling the white smoke to see if it smells strongly of diesel.
The other name for a diesel engine is Compression Ignition Engine, the heat provided by high compression ignites the fuel when injected into the engine, aided by the heater plugs on a cold day, so if compression is not as good as it should be then the problem you describe occurs.
A compression test can prove also.
Worn injectors generally chuck out more fuel which would result in black smoke not white.
One of my daughters had a Fiat Grande Punto with that engine and mileage and was starting to display those symptoms, timing chain rattle/failure is not unheard around then either, although in her case I had replaced that, she did run the car for around four years and hers always started, but if that is the problem on your vehicle it will not cure it's self so eventually involves an expensive engine job, sorry.

 

[varesecrazy]

On a side note..

The speed restriction is often just Software.. which MES can clear


Have you plugged in any diagnostic kit..

The rail pressures MIGHT point towards dribbly injectors.. did you remove the glowplugs..or just check for power and resistance?

 

[bugsymike]

did you remove the glowplugs..or just check for power and resistance?

Good point , I forgot to ask.
Also when it starts, does it rev cleanly or lumpy until it clears as though one cylinder hasn't started firing due to a suspect heater plug etc.?

 

[Cochyn]

Thanks for the replies boys.

She fires up without any issues and idles without a problem. It’s really as it should be in all areas except for the white/grey smoke. Which also smells of diesel.

I didn’t remove the plugs, just voltmeter tested. All within range.

I’ve not had a chance to plug for diagnostic as of yet.

 

[portland_bill]

Thanks for the replies boys.

She fires up without any issues and idles without a problem. It’s really as it should be in all areas except for the white/grey smoke. Which also smells of diesel.

I didn’t remove the plugs, just voltmeter tested. All within range.

I’ve not had a chance to plug for diagnostic as of yet.

The plugs may be OK, but not being heated, if the control system is not working. Or the plugs may be tired and whilst heating, not getting as hot as they should.
White smoke is usually a sign of the combustion chamber being cold, which is usually a heater plug issue, but could be caused by coolant in a cylinder. (Not heard of that being an issue with this engine.) Compressions should be checked if possible, but low compression will more likely produce black or blue smoke as unburnt fuel. White smoke is poorly atomised fuel.
A test. When starting, the glowplug light extinguishes very quickly, so you need to focus on this.
Turn key to illuminate glowplug light. As soon as it goes off, turn key back, and on again, to reheat the glowplugs. As soon as light goes out again, start the engine and note the results. If no, or less white smoke, glowplugs are weak.
This is an old trick that gives tired glowplugs a chance to get hotter, but is not a cure.

When the ignition is turned on, is there a current supply to each glowplug?

 

[Cochyn]

Ok mate I’ll have a go at that. Yes, tested the leads too

 

[Cochyn]

So a slight update, van has sat for the past 10 days. So went to start it with the advice of allowing plugs to heat up with a few turns of the key before firing. Fired perfectly as usual, but no difference with the smoke unfortunately

So I’ve booked it in to a diesel specialist locally to test the injectors and fault find. Cross fingers!

 

[Cochyn]

Well, nothing to report. I mean absolutely nothing, the garage can’t find the cause of the smoke short of dismantling the engine. I build cosworth engines and have done for a number of years but this has got me stumped. Injectors have been tested and all fine, so all I can think of is a piston ring issue that expands with heat and no longer causes blow by. But then the smoke isn’t oil related. So I’m just gonna run it until it deteriorates lol

 

[bugsymike]

Whilst I generally agree with @portland_bill, after working on a variety of diesel vehicles since 1969 I am firmly of the belief that white pungent smoke, smelling of unburnt diesel when started from cold, often combined with long cranking and worse in cold winter weather, is a common indicator of low compression on a diesel engine. Especially if heater plugs have been ruled out.
Did the garage do a physical diesel compression test using either a injector or heater plug adaptor and what were those figures, personally I would like to see a compression reading above 260psi.
The two other times I have seen pungent white smoke was one, a car unsuccessfully trying to do a Regen and the other was an Alfa Giulietta in 1971 that was leaking brake fluid from the master cylinder into the brake servo unit and then "sucked" into the inlet manifold.

 

[Cochyn]

Yes, compression test showing equal adequate values. So need to look elsewhere for the issue.

 

[bugsymike]

Yes, compression test showing equal adequate values. So need to look elsewhere for the issue.

Good,but what were the readings?
So white smoke , smelling of unburnt fuel, only does it when cold, not heater plugs, good compressions and not trying to do a Regen?
Is that correct?

 

[Cochyn]

Not sure, trusted diesel specialists around here so happy with what they’ve found, so not looking at that area. Was hoping to be a faulty injector considering the symptoms and typical known fault with these engines, but all removed and tested. Yes that’s right.

 

[jrkitching]

Could this be something as simple as an injector leaking slightly, so that there's some unburnt fuel in one or more of the cylinders when starting from cold? Or is it that the fuel isn't properly combusting for some reason when the engine first starts?

 

[bugsymike]

Not sure, trusted diesel specialists around here so happy with what they’ve found, so not looking at that area. Was hoping to be a faulty injector considering the symptoms and typical known fault with these engines, but all removed and tested. Yes that’s right.

Be interesting to hear what the final conclusion is.
I recently spent ages chasing error codes suggesting muliple sensors, wiring faults etc. on a 2010 1.6 diesel Doblo van, In the end it was a poor seal on a pipe to the inlet manifold.
I had tried pressure testing the intercooler and pipes etc. and a friend offered the use of a smoke detector, which I didn't take up and in hindsight may well have pinpointed it.
I always used to say , if the job was easy the customer would do it themselves and I would have been out of a job.

 

[Cochyn]

Could this be something as simple as an injector leaking slightly, so that there's some unburnt fuel in one or more of the cylinders when starting from cold? Or is it that the fuel isn't properly combusting for some reason when the engine first starts?

No, was my first thought but all flow tested and fine. Gutted really though

 

[Cochyn]

Be interesting to hear what the final conclusion is.
I recently spent ages chasing error codes suggesting muliple sensors, wiring faults etc. on a 2010 1.6 diesel Doblo van, In the end it was a poor seal on a pipe to the inlet manifold.
I had tried pressure testing the intercooler and pipes etc. and a friend offered the use of a smoke detector, which I didn't take up and in hindsight may well have pinpointed it.
I always used to say , if the job was easy the customer would do it themselves and I would have been out of a job.

I agree, which is what annoys me. Been building engines for years and I naively thought someone else might be able to do something I can’t and locate the issue, but no chance. So I’ll leave it to develop and see what happens. Never really dealt with such an equally good and crap engine like this lol

 

[portland_bill]

I go back to my original thoughts.
White smoke is usually unburnt, partially atomised fuel, being too cold to burn properly. Once warm, unburnt fuel comes out blue/black.
White smoke can be the result of too much fuel, not enough heat, or sometimes coolant in the cylinder taking the heat.
Too much fuel: Although the injectors have been tested, how long have they been left under pressure to see if they leak, even a little? If it takes some time for one drop to form, might escape diagnosis. Might need pressurising, then leaving under pressure overnight, to see if any escapes.
Not enough heat: Heater plugs should energise to start, then remain energised for a short period after initial start. Is this second heating operating properly.
Coolant in the cylinder: Is the coolant level dropping? Might take a long time to be noticeable, as it only needs a tiny amount. If absolutely certain the external causes are not at fault, this could be a sign of potential head gasket failure. It might be a long time before it gets significantly worse.

If the vehicle is currently all together, could chekc the potential injector leakage by releasing the pressure once stopped. Care is needed as it is very high pressure, but if the rail pressure can be released, there should be no leakage. Next morning, retighten the union/plug, whatever, and see if it starts without smoke. No smoke means an injector definitely leaking, even if it is good at hiding.

 

[Cochyn]

Going round in circles here boys lol

I’ve sourced a spare low mile engine for pennies off a mate, so will have a weekend of swapping them over when this one finally gives up its secrets.

 

[varesecrazy]

Going round in circles here boys lol

I’ve sourced a spare low mile engine for pennies off a mate, so will have a weekend of swapping them over when this one finally gives up its secrets.

I will ask..
Have you confirmed it is timed correctly?