Hi... My daughter's 2010 1.1 engine is finished... Bad oil leak and now head gasket. I've seen a 1.2 engine local to me. Please let me know if this is a direct swap... Are there going to be ECU issues or anything else I need to know.

I really appreciate any help on this.

To add the engine I've seen is a 56 1.2

Different ECU
Different wiring
different coil pack

Not a straight swap

For a straight swap you need the same generation of engine

head gasket is a fairly easy repair ?

davidmann8 said:

anything else I need to know

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Your daughter's car will have the Euro4 1.1 engine; these were only produced between 2009-2010. Probably cheap enough from a breakers if you can find one; there's precious little demand for these and most are probably just scrapped, even if in good order.

@koalar, do you know if there are any hardware differences between the Euro4 and the earlier 1.1 units?

Unless this is the sort of thing you enjoy doing, I'd give serious thought to scrapping it. It's hard to imagine there's enough value left in the car to justify the amount of labour involved in swapping an engine. Back in 2010, you could have driven a brand new one off the forecourt for aroud £5500; an 11 yr old one can't be worth a great deal now.

If you decide to replace the engine, make sure you diagnose the cause of the failure. Head gaskets do not often fail on their own, but are caused by overheating, either a loss of coolant, or a failure of thermostat or cooling fan. Thermostats usually fail open, making it run cool, and fan failures are rare. Coolant loss is the usual reason. Radiators leak when they get old, the heater matrix may leak, water pumps can leak if not changed with the cambelt at specified intervals, and the coolant pipe below the exhaust manifold rusts through, but that one is usually sudden and apparent. Most of the above occur slowly, but cause head gasket failure if not addressed.

Here's one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114510251734?hash=item1aa957c6d6:g:Yl4AAOSwjGxfql0p

jrkitching said:

Your daughter's car will have the Euro4 1.1 engine; these were only produced between 2009-2010. Probably cheap enough from a breakers if you can find one; there's precious little demand for these and most are probably just scrapped, even if in good order.

@koalar, do you know if there are any hardware differences between the Euro4 and the earlier 1.1 units?

Unless this is the sort of thing you enjoy doing, I'd give serious thought to scrapping it. It's hard to imagine there's enough value left in the car to justify the amount of labour involved in swapping an engine. Back in 2010, you could have driven a brand new one off the forecourt for aroud £5500; an 11 yr old one can't be worth a great deal now.

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from 2009 the coil pack sits under the airbox and the 05 on the right hand side of the block

wiring and cam cover are different. That's definite

Whether it can be converted by swapping covers and splicing connector I dont know.

Someone on here tried and failed to get it started. Although the threads were a mess.

from at least March 2010 it will have a cam sensor.

05 will not

koalar said:

from at least March 2010 it will have a cam sensor.

05 will not

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Are you sure?

I thought the cam sensor came in with the Euro5 engines; the 1.1 was never produced in Euro5 form, hence the last of the 169 Actives having the 1.2 engine.

portland_bill said:

If you decide to replace the engine, make sure you diagnose the cause of the failure. Head gaskets do not often fail on their own, but are caused by overheating, either a loss of coolant, or a failure of thermostat or cooling fan. Thermostats usually fail open, making it run cool, and fan failures are rare. Coolant loss is the usual reason. Radiators leak when they get old, the heater matrix may leak, water pumps can leak if not changed with the cambelt at specified intervals, and the coolant pipe below the exhaust manifold rusts through, but that one is usually sudden and apparent. Most of the above occur slowly, but cause head gasket failure if not addressed.

Here's one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114510251734?hash=item1aa957c6d6:g:Yl4AAOSwjGxfql0p

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thats not a FIAT PANDA MK2 1.1 04-11 engine

maybe an early 09 ?

koalar said:

thats not a FIAT PANDA MK2 1.1 04-11 engine

maybe an early 09 ?

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That's what it says. 2009.

Listing title is 04-11, which is the Panda 169 range.
In the listing it states actual age and mileage of engine.
"REMOVED FROM A 2009 PANDA WITH 71K MILES ON THE CLOCK"
Pictures show cam cover with 2009 written on it.

jrkitching said:

Are you sure?

I thought the cam sensor came in with the Euro5 engines; the 1.1 was never produced in Euro5 form, hence the last of the 169 Actives having the 1.2 engine.

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yes


not sure when they first used


but it before the date I quoted. Which is how its listed in a parts catalogue. look at the last image of the eBay listing above. Its even on a early 09 1.1L


although I wouldn't take it as gospel as things keep getting chopped and changed.


I thought 09 all had the coil pack under the airbox but this one is still on the end of the block.

portland_bill said:

That's what it says. 2009.

Listing title is 04-11, which is the Panda 169 range.
In the listing it states actual age and mileage of engine.
"REMOVED FROM A 2009 PANDA WITH 71K MILES ON THE CLOCK"
Pictures show cam cover with 2009 written on it.

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ha ha

I read it as April 2011 :bang:

koalar said:

yes not sure when they first used but it before the date I quoted.

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Sorry, was having a senior moment and confusing it with the VVT actuator (which definitely didn't appear before Euro5 and was never used on the 1.1).

My 2010 1.2 (Euro 4) also has a cam sensor. It also has coil packs on the end of the block.

I'm not sure the later 1.1 is interchangeable with the earlier one, so if they want a reasonably easy life, the OP may need to look for one from 2009 onwards, which will rule out most of the ones on eBay.

Some of those engines look pretty tatty; if you replace the parts that probably should be replaced whilst you're in there (sump, cambelt, water pump, clutch), it's going to start costing significant money. I've said it before, but putting a scrap engine of unknown pedigree into a near end of life car isn't what I'd want to be doing with my life.

jrkitching said:

Sorry, was having a senior moment and confusing it with the VVT actuator (which definitely didn't appear before Euro5 and was never used on the 1.1).

My 2010 1.2 (Euro 4) also has a cam sensor. It also has coil packs on the end of the block.

I'm not sure the later 1.1 is interchangeable with the earlier one, so if they want a reasonably easy life, the OP may need to look for one from 2009 onwards, which will rule out most of the ones on eBay.

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The original poster wanted to put in a 1.2 from a 05. In to a 2010 1.1 Although they look similar virtually every component is different

the question

"Please let me know if this is a direct swap"

the answer is

no

The earlier engine has less going on (e.g. no cam sensor). A later 1.2 my well fit and it may well run as long as the old 1.1 ECU gets the correct signals. The issues are will the gearbox fit and will the sensors on the 1.2 send suitable signals to keep the 1.1 ECU happy.
If you have nothing better to do then its interesting to try but TBH I would fix the old head gasket. AT the same time, replace the radiator, water pump, cam belt and that steel coolant pipe. DOnt try to separate the radiator QD couplings. Snip the "one shot" clamps and fit worm drive hose clamps.

davidmann8 said:

Hi... My daughter's 2010 1.1 engine is finished

.

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davidmann8 said:

To add the engine I've seen is a 56 1.2

Click to expand...

DaveMcT said:

The earlier engine has less going on (e.g. no cam sensor). A later 1.2 my well fit and it may well run as long as the old 1.1 ECU gets the correct signals.

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Its the other way around

a 2006 1.2L into a 2010 1.1L

You need to confirm the existing ECU will get all the inputs it needs to work properly. It wont care about the extra 100cc but it will complain if things like cam sensor are not there.

Before doing anything so drastic, pull the cylinder head and see what it's like inside. Serious overheating can damage (melt) the intake manifold. If it is affected, there will be other damaged components which could warrant a replacement engine.