Hi All

I am planning to flush the old coolant in my Panda, and fill with new one.

I got some de-ionised water from Tesco because they were 1£ per 2.5L.

I am wondering what would be the best anti freeze for new coolant.

I was thinking of mixing anti freeze with the de-ionised water 50:50, but what I found from local screwfix is ready to use anti freeze for 4.99£ per litre.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/prestone...t-_-automotive-_-antifreeze&_requestid=215739

It seems getting good reviews.

Would it mean that I don't need to mix, and put straight into the radiator?

Would it be better to get something to mix with the water? What would be better way to do it?

How many litre would it take in the radiator? cheers.

Theleman said:

Hi All

I am planning to flush the old coolant in my Panda, and fill with new one.

I got some de-ionised water from Tesco because they were 1£ per 2.5L.

I am wondering what would be the best anti freeze for new coolant.

I was thinking of mixing anti freeze with the de-ionised water 50:50, but what I found from local screwfix is ready to use anti freeze for 4.99£ per litre.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/prestone...t-_-automotive-_-antifreeze&_requestid=215739

It seems getting good reviews.

Would it mean that I don't need to mix, and put straight into the radiator?

Would it be better to get something to mix with the water? What would be better way to do it?

How many litre would it take in the radiator? cheers.

Click to expand...

First off is the good news that draining out the old antifreeze and flushing through means you don't have to worry about whether what you buy is going to react in some way with the stuff already in the system.

Next thing is to make sure it's an OAT (Organic Acid Technology) based antifreeze. - often/usually red in colour. The older antifreeze formulations - often blue in colour - were Silicate based and the two types DO NOT MIX! Don't rely on colour alone though, Honda use a blue coloured OAT antifreeze, just to fool us all! I've seen green and yellow too, so read the spec on the tin.

OAT antifreezes are usually recommended for about 5 years before change. Silicate types every 2, possibly 3, years. I guess that Prestone stuff would do the job fine and it says it can be added to any colour of antifreeze. ("ready to use" means just tip it straight in from the container - do not dilute) When I did the cam belts and water pumps on our Panda and my boy's Punto earlier in the year I bought a 5 litre container of concentrate (TradeTEC red) from my local factor. It's an OAT formulation and I've used that brand before and it seems fine - tends to be supplied by trade outlets, so not a brand you tend to see in the likes of Halfords or supermarkets. I also bought the Halfords battery water we were talking about earlier and mixed it up 50/50 So around 10 litres of mix did both cars (I think there was a small amount left for top ups - but I've lost track because a certain amount of topping up had to be done for a wee while after as the inevitable trapped air worked it's way out). So, as regards quantity, I guess it was just under 5 litres per car - maybe a little more in the Punto (bigger radiator?) a little less in the Panda. - 5 litres of your ready mixed Prestone looks like an expensive way to go?

One thing worth knowing is that there's nothing like filling a cooling system with nice new antifreeze mixture to find leaks! It's not at all unusual to find a car which has no obvious leaks at all before you drain it to spring little "weepy" leaks around hoses etc a couple of days after you've changed the coolant. As our engines don't like overheating (head gaskets) keep a close eye on coolant level for at least a week after your change.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

First off is the good news that draining out the old antifreeze and flushing through means you don't have to worry about whether what you buy is going to react in some way with the stuff already in the system.

Next thing is to make sure it's an OAT (Organic Acid Technology) based antifreeze. - often/usually red in colour. The older antifreeze formulations - often blue in colour - were Silicate based and the two types DO NOT MIX! Don't rely on colour alone though, Honda use a blue coloured OAT antifreeze, just to fool us all! I've seen green and yellow too, so read the spec on the tin.

OAT antifreezes are usually recommended for about 5 years before change. Silicate types every 2, possibly 3, years. I guess that Prestone stuff would do the job fine and it says it can be added to any colour of antifreeze. ("ready to use" means just tip it straight in from the container - do not dilute) When I did the cam belts and water pumps on our Panda and my boy's Punto earlier in the year I bought a 5 litre container of concentrate (TradeTEC red) from my local factor. It's an OAT formulation and I've used that brand before and it seems fine - tends to be supplied by trade outlets, so not a brand you tend to see in the likes of Halfords or supermarkets. I also bought the Halfords battery water we were talking about earlier and mixed it up 50/50 So around 10 litres of mix did both cars (I think there was a small amount left for top ups - but I've lost track because a certain amount of topping up had to be done for a wee while after as the inevitable trapped air worked it's way out). So, as regards quantity, I guess it was just under 5 litres per car - maybe a little more in the Punto (bigger radiator?) a little less in the Panda. - 5 litres of your ready mixed Prestone looks like an expensive way to go?

One thing worth knowing is that there's nothing like filling a cooling system with nice new antifreeze mixture to find leaks! It's not at all unusual to find a car which has no obvious leaks at all before you drain it to spring little "weepy" leaks around hoses etc a couple of days after you've changed the coolant. As our engines don't like overheating (head gaskets) keep a close eye on coolant level for at least a week after your change.

Click to expand...

Theleman. Have you had a look around locally for motor trade factors? When I was starting out you had to be "trade", complete with a trade order slip, for them to sell to you. Now-a-days all but one of my local factors will sell to the public and they are all "super aware" of online prices so I find I can often get things at the same price as on line but minus the shipping - so actually cheaper sometimes! and the quality is invariably good because these are the guys who are selling to all the local garages. They wouldn't stay in business for long if they sold sub standard stuff. Over hear in Edinburgh there are a number to choose from but I find SRS invariably do the best prices. I think I've picked up that you are through the west? They seem to have branches over your side of the country too.

Oh, by the way, many Factors, because they are "trade" will quote prices without VAT. So watch out for this. They are not trying to swindle you, it's just the way they do business. Not all do it this way so I always ask if VAT is included in the price when I'm doing comparisons.

Hi Jock

Thank you for your info & advice.

I have heard about SRS, but not have been there yet. I will see how are from me it is, and next time when I am near the place, will try to pop in.

In my locality, we have Euro car parts store, Screwfix, Halfords and there is a new huge store where Homebase used to be. Now HB shut down of course, and new store in there is called Range.

They sell everything for most home DIY stuff, and tools too. I have been there a couple of times, and bought some blinds for windows, and price was excellent.

I will try there too.

But I also tend to use eBay or Amazon a lot too, and shop around for best price for the same item.

But as you say, because I am going to drain the coolant, and refill with new. I dont have to worry about mixing with different coolant.

And another thing is that, even the hose pipe looks very rusty, I kept checking every morning, and there is no leak at all yet. And the Panda is running very sweet, albeit with the EML light on the dashboard.

So, I will just keep parts, and do all together on one day.

Coolant drain, flush.
Hose pipe replacement
Coolant refill
Replace oxygen sensors if found faulty (still to confirm)
And give oil and filter change

All will be done in one day, so I will be gathering parts, good coolant, engine oil and the sensors ready. I have already oil filter from the spark plug and air filter service pack.

Coolant wise, I am planing to use the de-ionised water to flush the radiator, and
just use ready mixed coolant to refill. I will just have to shop around for the best quality and price meanwhile. Fortunately we have some time until the critical situation yet

if the bottom hose hasn't been off its quite likely to be fairly tight. It helps to rig something it push the two metal clip in.


I use a small g clamp and someone else used a large hose clamp.


its important to make sure the rubber seal is properly seated and the connector is pushed fully home on reassembly

koalar said:

if the bottom hose hasn't been off its quite likely to be fairly tight. It helps to rig something it push the two metal clip in.


I use a small g clamp and someone else used a large hose clamp.


its important to make sure the rubber seal is properly seated and the connector is pushed fully home on reassembly

Click to expand...

Plastic fittings have improved a lot over the years but after numerous frustrating failures in years gone by I prefer to remove the hose clamp and simply pull the hose off. Fitting a new Jubilee type clamp on reassembly if needed.

I have used Euro a couple of times but found them considerably more expensive than either my friend (when he was in business) or SRS for names I know and trust.

You are going to have a busy day with that list. From what you've been saying previously you have little experience and enormous enthusiasm and I congratulate you and encourage you - That's not meant to be patronising by the way. If everything goes according to plan I think you should manage. Removing the coolant pipe (I presume you are talking about the metal pipe which runs along the front of the engine) Where the securing bolt could shear, and removing the oxygen sensor - are you doing both? - are likely to be the most bothersome. Best to make an early start I think.

When flushing I like to disconnect the top and bottom radiator hoses and use my garden hose to flush LOTS - gallons and gallons - of water through, until it runs really nice and clear. Some people say that the hose pipe should be connected to the bottom radiator hose as that "Back flushes" the radiator and is likely to shift more crud. If I'm going to do this I like to take the radiator out of the car and turn it upside down before I start so that gravity assists the muck to come out. If you want to be very thorough you can disconnect both heater hoses (and you will have your bottom radiator hose off when you take that pipe out anyway) and flush water backwards - so water going in to the heater hose which connects to the bottom rad hose - through the heater matrix. Be a little bit careful if you have high mains pressure, as we do, you might end up blowing a hose connection off inside the car or even damaging the heater matrix itself. But a good backflush can considerably improve heater performance.

Finally, Don't empty the old antifreeze down a drain. It's very polluting stuff. I drain mine into a bucket (often a little does "escape" but I try to catch it all). Then I put it into the empty containers that the new stuff came in. As you are buying it in litre bottles? it may be easier to save 2 litre pop bottles or maybe those big plastic milk bottles? I believe local council recycling sites will take it but I find the local garages will often oblige if you ask nicely.

Do keep us informed about how you get on. I hope all goes well and I hope you enjoy doing it.

kind regards
Jock

Thank you for great posts Jock and Koalar.

Yes, I was wondering how the two forked ends get connected to the engine and water pump. As in the photo, one end has rubber ring, and the other is just steel, it looks like ribbed but not threads or screw holes to attach.

So, its just matter of pushing them in firmly, and sit it in as tight as possible?

The other end is, of course, pushed into the hose, screwed with M6 bolt there and it will be clipped? I have ordered a set of hose clips (jubliee clips) from Amazon in case it will need to be clipped, and the original clip will be likely to break, and binned.



Yes, we do have local council skip about 4 miles from us, so we will discard the old drained anti freeze in the bottles, and also old engine oil in there too. There is a bit that take these things in the skip, and sign posted accordingly.

Will keep getting parts and consumables, and get the day for the work. Must be dry and no wind and no rain all day, and will start early morning. Maybe will take most of day for all the work.

Will keep updated with the progress and result. Thank you for the info & advice as always.

Kind regards
Jay

Theleman said:

Thank you for great posts Jock and Koalar.

Yes, I was wondering how the two forked ends get connected to the engine and water pump. As in the photo, one end has rubber ring, and the other is just steel, it looks like ribbed but not threads or screw holes to attach.

So, its just matter of pushing them in firmly, and sit it in as tight as possible?

The other end is, of course, pushed into the hose, screwed with M6 bolt there and it will be clipped? I have ordered a set of hose clips (jubliee clips) from Amazon in case it will need to be clipped, and the original clip will be likely to break, and binned.

Click to expand...

Looking at your picture of the pipe (by the way it's the same make as the one I bought) the larger diameter pipe on the right, with the ribbed rubber seal, is a push fit (you have to push quite firmly) into the back of the water pump. The other open end above it is where the bottom radiator hose goes (probably you'll need a new hose clamp as the original Fiat one is not reusable) The long, smaller diameter pipe which ends on the left, is where the heater return hose goes (probably a hose clamp will be needed here too). The 6mm bolt is the only fixing which holds it in place. A wee but of rubber lube, silicon grease, or some other lubricant which doesn't degrade rubber, smeared on the rubber seal will help it slide into the hole in the back of the water pump. It's a good idea to clean this hole up with maybe a wee bit of fine emery cloth to make sure it seals properly.

As I said before, try to remember exactly how you turn and manoeuvre the pipe as you remove it. It makes it much easier when sliding the new one into position.

Good luck, have fun
Jock

Thank you for detailed instruction Jock.
Much appreciated.
Will keep all the points in mind while carrying out the job.

Wife has taken the Panda to Haddington for her work meeting this morning, and messaged that the car ran fine, no problems. So it is still running ok.

Reflecting last 9 years we have had the Panda, it never failed to start, and never broke down, and never ran rough. It has a great reliable engine.

Hope that we could run it for another 10 years and another 100k miles in the time.

I watched the Top Gear last night where Rory takes a Suzuki Ignis up a mountain to prove how fab it is. Sabine turns up in a Panda Cross and blows the Zook into the weeds.

Pandas rock.

When we were buying the Panda, we had to decide between Citoren Picasso Xara and the Fiat Panda. We chose the Panda.

Some days we regretted not having gone for the Citroen Picasso for more room and motorway drivability. But not sure, if the Picasso would have been reliable car.

There are 5 litre pre mixed coolants ready to use for 9.95£ Including delivery on eBay, so that seem way to go. Far Better price than Screwfix Tesco or Halford ones.

You might want to clean the cooling system while you're at it.
You put a tablespoon of liquid detergent from the dishwasher/washing machine, the "low" foaming stuff and run the engine 15 minutes.
Drain and flush well.
Then add some citric acid granules; I use about 5 little packs from the supermarket that's used for baking, diluted in a liter of de-ionized water and top up with same. Drive the car for about 50-100 km and then flush well with a bit of baking soda for neutralizing any residue.

Then add your antifreeze.....
It's pretty cool to see your overflow tank change back to its white color from the brown/yellow mustard color it usually has.

IIRC, this is the old Mercedes factory recommended procedure

regards,
nick

edit: Of course this kind of assumes your freeze plugs are up to snuff, and not ready to crap out

Thanks for the instruction for the flushing Nick.

Yeah, I just am not sure when that coolant in my Panda had been ever flushed or replaced. It could well be from the factory 9 year ago when we bought it.

I was browsing through all the service books, papers and receipts of past 9 years from the Panda, but couldn't spot anything mentioning coolant.

And yet, the car is not over heating, heater still works ok, starts and drives like clock right now.

I was planning doing the flush soon, but now taking time again for good weather, all the parts arrival and a day of free time. Cheers.

Jay

olNick said:

Of course this kind of assumes your freeze plugs are up to snuff, and not ready to crap out

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They rust from the outside (usually) so you can check and replace before doing the flush.