Hi All,

So i got a new car, i have done the dirty and defected away from Fiat. my trusty old 2005 plate panda has been replaced with a 1 year old hyundai i20.

i didn't want to get rid of the panda so left it on my drive, it has been sat there 10 days, i went to start it yesterday to let it run for a while as it will be put back into use as my partners car in about a year. and it started (very quickly as usual) but about 20 seconds later spluttered and died. i cannot get it to fire back up.

its not the battery i replaced it with a brand new duracell branded battery about 3 months ago and it has plenty of power when cranking. i have also run jump leads from my new car to give it a bit of extra juice and still nothing. i have done cranking for 10 seconds at a time and a minute at a time, it makes no difference it is like it is slightly catching as when you let the key off it splutters for a seconds and then stops.

i know fuel can go off but surely not after 10 days? it has over half a tank before anyone asks.

i have also today changed the spark plugs and it made no difference at all.

i have removed the air filter housing right back to the throttle body to rule out an air blockage.

so i have:

spark - yep
air - yep
fuel - ? should have

i had a similar issue with an old bike that had a carb that glazed over but that was after sitting for 6 months not 10 days. and these pandas have fuel injection right? but if 'feels' the same like its not getting enough fuel. is there anywhere to check for blockages?

any suggestions? is it just unhappy its been replaced?? :doh:

Immobiliser? What happens with the spare key?

Hi.
Weird it just stopped..

How long does the fuel pump prime?

Sounds electrical to me..

Pull off the neg battery connection fora few hours
. Might reset something.

(What happened to old battery?. Summer is a weird time to need one.. maybe a recurring weird issue..)

I take it it is cranking ok..

Do message : or quote me in a couple of days if you cannot spot the issue.

Ive had a weird thing like this on my 1.1 Active

Turn the car over for short time then tempo a spark plug should be able to tell if any fuel is being delivered into the chamber then work from there

check the plugs on top of the ECU have not worked loose or been accidentally unclipped.
I recommend strapping them down with tie wraps.

are you sure the fuel pump starting.


the fact it started then died sound like it used up the fuel in the line but no new fuel to sustain it.

when you turn the key there should be a quite hum from the rear seats.

Try it with jump leads and see what happens.

I'll reply to each one in order:
Immobiliser - no light on dash to suggest a problem and the very occasional catch on the engine suggests the plugs are firing so I would rule that out.

Spare key. Only ever had one.

Fuel pump prime for about 5 seconds and I can hear it whirring as normal.
Battery is off and currently charging
Battery replaced to rule out an issue with the power steering occasionally cutting out.
Cranks perfectly fine

New spark plugs in yesterday. Cranked and removed one a short while ago, wet with fuel as expected.

Ecu connectors perfectly fine, I had already read about other users with this being a problem and double checked it

I'm sure fuel pump is running can hear it as normal. However I do agree it sounds like it has used the fuel available and can't get any more but then why would the spark plugs be covered if fuel as I have written above? I have removed the throttle body and could see fuel so it looks like fuel is getting to the injectors.

Grid with jump leads as per my first post

Thanks for all the replies so far!

If I start my 100HP in winter to only move it half a meter and turn off again, it overfuels next time I start it. I can get it started and running by pressing the accellerator most of the times, but if not I pull the fuse for the fuelsystem and crank it for aproxximately 30 seconds. After that the fuse goes back and it starts normal.

gr J

Had a thought. When I had a blocked fuel filter on my bike I was able to pour some fuel into the carb to confirm it would run for a short while. Can I do the same here? I know there is no carb but if I was to remove the throttle body via the 3 torx screws could I pour some fuel into what I presume is the neck of the injection system? When I looked in there I could see a small amount of fluid that I presume is petrol...

Nope. You'll probably be pouring in the inletmanifold instead of the (pressurized) fuelsystem.
And if it is overfueling (as I suspect) it will do you no good.

gr J

Thanks for the heads up. Should there be any fuel in there? There is a little bit I'd say about 100ml however when I first got the car 3 years ago I took the throttle body off to clean it all up and there was about the same amount there then so I assume it is okay!

And would Bradex / holts easy start be a good idea to try?

Have you tried doubling up the earth lead with a jump lead from negative pole to engine block?
If so, try from negative pole to body instead.
Had similar non start problem on a Panda when earth lead got flaky. Turned over fine but didn't start. Earth lead was basically green dust for about an inch either side of the middle terminal.
Just a (free to try) idea.

newbie fiat said:

I'll reply to each one in order:
Immobiliser - no light on dash to suggest a problem and the very occasional catch on the engine suggests the plugs are firing so I would rule that out.

Spare key. Only ever had one.

I'm sure fuel pump is running can hear it as normal. However I do agree it sounds like it has used the fuel available and can't get any more but then why would the spark plugs be covered if fuel as I have written above? I have removed the throttle body and could see fuel so it looks like fuel is getting to the injectors.

Grid with jump leads as per my first post

Thanks for all the replies so far!

Click to expand...

Ok.
A little clarification:

Immobiliser..
The symbol SHOULD illuminate at the self.test.. then go out.

Fuelling:you can test by using a trigger spray to allow a litte fuel into the bell mouth of the 'carb'...
Yours sound fine though..


MY EXPERIENCE..
our 1.1 moved around the drive for 30 seconds..
Came back after 2 mins... just cranking..

Did 90% of your tests..
Fuel pump didnt run..

Spent an hour fashionong a vast spanner to remove the pump.. failed miserably .

Got trailered to the fiat-alfa indy.

Easy fix..

The waterpump bearing had failed (13 months old..fitted by them)losing belt tension.

Cam belt was 7 TEETH OUT..!!

REPLACED WATERPUMP AND BELT

All fine..

Great to own a SAFE ENGINE

irc said:

Have you tried doubling up the earth lead with a jump lead from negative pole to engine block?
If so, try from negative pole to body instead.
Had similar non start problem on a Panda when earth lead got flaky. Turned over fine but didn't start. Earth lead was basically green dust for about an inch either side of the middle terminal.
Just a (free to try) idea.

Click to expand...

Tried this just now no change unfortunately. I know my earth lead is suffering a bit so was hoping this would cure it

varesecrazy said:

Ok.
A little clarification:

Immobiliser..
The symbol SHOULD illuminate at the self.test.. then go out.

Fuelling:you can test by using a trigger spray to allow a litte fuel into the bell mouth of the 'carb'...
Yours sound fine though..


MY EXPERIENCE..
our 1.1 moved around the drive for 30 seconds..
Came back after 2 mins... just cranking..

Did 90% of your tests..
Fuel pump didnt run..

Spent an hour fashionong a vast spanner to remove the pump.. failed miserably .

Got trailered to the fiat-alfa indy.

Easy fix..

The waterpump bearing had failed (13 months old..fitted by them)losing belt tension.

Cam belt was 7 TEETH OUT..!!

REPLACED WATERPUMP AND BELT

All fine..

Great to own a SAFE ENGINE

Click to expand...

Immobiliser light does come on for about 3 seconds and goes out.

The rest of your post I'm confused by you start talking about the fuel pump then move onto the water pump and belt. My water pump and belt where done about 6 months ago so about 6k miles and a whole road trip round France so it was definitely done right.

Didn't get chance to get very far as it was dark and started raining but I took the left spark plug out. Connected it to the ht lead and left it grounded on the engine block and cranked it. It fired nicely and evenly as it should so I know I'm definitely getting spark. So i think I can rule out electrical. I will test the other 3 in the same way as soon as I can.

I do think you might be onto something with timing as I have air. The spark plugs are wet with fuel and I have spark so it should run! Like I said the timing belt and water pump where done 6 months ago but I suppose it could have gone out of timing.. I thought that would throw the eml light on though?

newbie fiat said:

Didn't get chance to get very far ..
I suppose it could have gone out of timing.. I thought that would throw the eml light on though?

Click to expand...

AFAIK.. NO..!!

THE 1.1 Of mine only has a lower crank sensor.. so has no idea about cam position.


The 13 month old waterpump failed.. allowing the cam belt to jump.

These motors run acceptably 2 teeth out..
naff all worked at 7 teeth out..

They are a non.interference engine.. so no damage done..

varesecrazy said:

AFAIK.. NO..!!

THE 1.1 Of mine only has a lower crank sensor.. so has no idea about cam position.


The 13 month old waterpump failed.. allowing the cam belt to jump.

These motors run acceptably 2 teeth out..
naff all worked at 7 teeth out..

They are a non.interference engine.. so no damage done..

Click to expand...

I think our 1.1 active's are the same (even down to colour) I'm running out of things to try so I think next on my list is check each plug is firing and then remove the crank case covers and check the timing.

As a note I did the timing belt, water pump pully etc myself and spent 3 hours quadruple checking everything to make sure it was perfect. When I started the job the belt was already 2 teeth out so I made sure it was in perfect alignment when I did it.

Also if I leave it to sit overnight when I first go to start it for about half a second it sounds like it's gong to start then just goes back to spinning over. It really feels like fuel is trickling through. I have sat and moved the key from off to acc 10 times in a row to keep priming the fuel pump this made no difference.

Doubt its fuel as the plugs are getting wet.

But if you must you can check for pressure

left hand side of the engine block. Black plastic screw on cover. Under which is a valve to depressurise the fuel rail. Be careful don't spray fuel in you eye. Carefully pressing it down will co firm the fuel rail is pressurizing.