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Old 06-01-2019   #61
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Speakers I fitted - front JBL 602E 6.5" or 16.5cm cost 29.94 and for rear Alpine SXE-5725S 5" x 7" cost 29.65 both purchased from Ebay sellers, lots of choices on there and some much more expensive alternatives.
Next purchase is a Renault thermostat 😁
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Old 06-01-2019   #62
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Do you have a part number for the thermostat and supplier.
Noticed my MK2 running cold.
Ta
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Old 06-01-2019   #63
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Quote Originally Posted by MultipleMultis View Post
Do you have a part number for the thermostat and supplier.
Noticed my MK2 running cold.
Ta
Here's the one I bought:
Use the discount too!
Click image for larger version

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Old 07-01-2019   #64
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Quote Originally Posted by MultipleMultis View Post
Do you have a part number for the thermostat and supplier.
Noticed my MK2 running cold.
Ta
Is it this one?:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Replaceme...00ed%7Ciid%3A1


Quite a good "How To" here; though it's not directly applicable to the Multipla, the 'stat is exactly the same (Circoli) part and the method is well explained:

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/108692...fitting-guide/

I'd like to see a diagrammatic of the Multipla cooling circuit with that in place to see how it affects coolant flow.
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Old 07-01-2019   #65
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

I saw a post on a MG forum where someone had recorded the cylinder head temp while doing various drives and recorded over 100degC regularly. They were concerned enough to pull it out again.

At Ford our durability engines run at 105 deg C all day long. I don't think i remember seeing a cylinder head temperature measuring channel on Multi Scan ECU but even so next time I get a chance i'll try to record the temp sender at the thermostat and see what range I get with the 'tandem' stats when at 3 to 4 bars.

The way i'm justifying it is that a 2.0 petrol Espace must be rejecting substancially more heat to the coolant than the 1.9 JTD just due to efficiency alone so I dont think flow through the valve itself will be an issue. But it may be that the two will interfere with each other. The Renault stat is pretty much immediately after the FIAT one so hopefully there is next to no volume to cool between the stats and cause a back up of hot coolant in the head. Who knows!
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Old 07-01-2019   #66
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Good point and I justified doing the hose stat on mine as I didn't have the funds to have a proper one fitted at the time.Two years later it's still working fine and I doubt it'll be what kills my Multi.
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Old 07-01-2019   #67
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

This system logs you out ... write a bloody reply and poof its gone.
1. How many run cold in winter is it all of them ? If so is it a big issue running cool ? If so nothing really wrong with the thermostat ??
2. A clamp on the top hose may work the same as the espace thermostat or blocking heat exchanger. I guess if the main stat is fully stuck open and not regulating it may not be as good as the Espace mod ??


3. 105 C with 90 C water does not sound bad as an engineer not an detailed engine man. There has go to be some difference in temperature ???
4. Does anyone know if the oil temperature affects the DPF regen on these, I seem to think it does on 2009 BMWs. That was my only worry really.
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Old 07-01-2019   #68
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Drawings of heating system, think cooling system one is best as shows heater matrix.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf CoolingSystem.pdf (104.0 KB, 10 views)
File Type: pdf FIAT ePER heating.pdf (115.6 KB, 6 views)
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Old 13-01-2019   #69
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Balls.
Went to go out in the bug this morning after loading with wife, three kids, 2 bikes and a pram. Started fine but as I tried to pull out of the driveway it stalled - no power. Tried to restart but it wouldn't catch, tonnes of white smoke out the back and juddering. Anyway finally started and it's not right at all barely able to rev over idle with plumes of white and blue smoke.
Abandoned it at home and took the wifes car. Altea nowhere near as practical and had to bungee the boot half shut - nearly killing the kids with CO on the way to our walk.
When I got back I plugged in Multiscan and recorded boost and the set point. Not making anywhere near the set point and though I can hear the turbo spooling the whole engine sounds more boomy if that makes sense.
Definitely not a boost leak or a hose come off - its not hissing.
Thinking the turbo has properly gone and is now feeding oil into the engine too causing the blue smoke.
Managed to get a lift in to work and pick up the Jaguar so I'm mobile again but I'm slightly peeved about the turbo going.
I've stashed quite a pile of parts for it now so I'll probably take it off the road for some time - get the turbo off and confirm the fault, then clutch, timing belt, water pump, auxiliary belt, oil & filter, front coupe wheels.

Go hard or go home!
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Old 13-01-2019   #70
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Sorry to hear that. It's a relatively quick job to remove the air box and the ribbed inlet duct pipe to the turbo, giving enough access to get your finger on the end of the turbo spindle to feel for free play. Mine went in fine style some years ago on the M2 with the car fully loaded with family and holiday gear, headed for the channel tunnel. So I well know how you feel.

Turbo seal failure on the JTD is nowhere near as scary as it is on the Renault 1.9 diesel F9Q; when that went on my wife's Scenic, it started running on the engine oil it was sucking past the seals and into the inlet tract, screaming it's nuts off even with my foot off the throttle. Luckily I figured out what was happening and reined it in on the brakes enough to get it off boost (on the M4). Laid an impressive smoke screen. That is a dog of an engine....
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Old 14-01-2019   #71
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Thanks WMF,

Your experiences sound a lot worse than mine - I would dread to have a failure to proceed on a motorway, let alone with family in the car too! I've never had breakdown cover and managed to either limp to home or work or abandon the vehicle somewhere safe and come back to fix it. In a way the Multi was sort of my breakdown cover as we now have three cars with MOT in various states of disrepair!
I've had two turbos go before so this one has similar symptoms - white & blue smoke and no power - but it's also hunting/misfiring a lot. I'll try and get the clean side duct off as you say and have a wiggle of the shaft - with our old focus the compressor nut had completely span off!

I'm now second guessing other potential causes like the timing belt jumping a tooth or a failed injector - but then it idles quite well!?!

Hopefully i'll get round to whipping the air box off tonight. Fingers crossed it is *just* the turbo.
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Old 14-01-2019   #72
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

I don't have pictures because I don't have this car, but it looks good!
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Old 14-01-2019   #73
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Right. Got the airbox and duct off.
As far as I'm concerned the turbo has little float in either direction and appears to spin quite freely. The nut was present and correct and there was little oil forward of the compressor. All in all it looked like a turbo with 100k on it and perfectly serviceable.
Balls.
Took the timing belt inspection cover off. The belt is there and doesn't look bad at all. Quite slack on the top section between hp pump and cam possibly but hard to tell. I think I'll try to get the crank to its timing mark - hopefully visible without taking off the aux belt and crank damper and check that the cam is aligned too.
After that i guess i could look into a compression test or may be an injector leak off test? Might even be able to get the injectors tested at work. After that it's getting a little desperate. Might just ask DAM Fiats how much a second hand engine is just so I know worst case.
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Old 14-01-2019   #74
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Picture for proof i went there - isn't doing much to convey the dynamic capabilities of the turbo.Click image for larger version

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Old 14-01-2019   #75
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Re: Project: Double Ugly

Mmmm. Back to square one. Any mayonnaise on the oil filler cap? Oil film in the coolant header tank? Drop in coolant level?

I'm a bit at a loss as to reasons for the white smoke. Presumably that was with a cold engine though? If so, it could just have been condensate from over- fuelling.
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