Yes i think that would give similar symptoms, but no i'm pretty sure the box and duct were bone dry on the inside when i took them off. I was wondering about a possible leak of coolant into the intake manifold via the egr cooler. The key difference last night was that it was definitely not flowing EGR because the MAF was disconnected.
I'll have to see if I can get the issue to reoccur otherwise i'm chasing a phantom event!

If the issue doesn't reoccur then the positives are that it's back off the road and now i can fit the pile of bits i have ready for it.

Water in the fuel perhaps? Have you tried draining off the diesel filter?

Stepping back, if liquid water around it could hydraulic the engine ? ... if you have concerns on cooler then need to make sure no liquid water is around in the hoses etc. I do not know plumbing around EGR valve .... but what if it opens and water were there ?

Could be that recent work on thermostat/coolant allowed some water and glycol to track into plastic air pipes and this was enough to give the blast of smoke ??
Just throwing in ideas. Is there any wet in the bottom of the filter box ? glycol never evaporates so should stay at low point ?

Let us know how the patient gets on ...

Thanks guys, yes water in fuel is plausible. For the EGR cooler to leak into the gas path there would need to be a crack on the cooler itself. I've managed to hydraulic an engine at work on a test bed through this route but the design of the EGR system made this more likely.
The airbox was all dry.

I'm beginning to think this was some fuel starvation or something but only time will tell. Still strongly considering taking the injectors out to test them at work - new copper washers are available on ebay for £5.

First will try to throw it back together on the weekend for some Italian tuning.

Cheers again.

I had some good results with this stuff last year when I used it on my Audi A2:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liqui-Moly-Diesel-Purge-500ML-Diesel-Injector-Cleaner/252692339239?epid=2115894394&hash=item3ad5a31a27:g:q30AAOSwNE5YW7H~:rk:4f:0

I changed the fuel filter (a canister type) and filled it with the above cleaner, neat, before fitting it. The engine will run quite happily solely on this stuff and it definitely cleared up the lumpy idle and the slightly lethargic throttle response. Not had a problem with the Audi since.

Thanks that's great, hopefully I can get them out and in to work. But it does mean having to explain why some jtd injectors are in Fords ultrasonic tank.

Started her up again just now because some dumbass had left an interior light on overnight. Fired up ok and after an initial hesitation she idled fine. Totally puzzled.

The fuel filter does look pretty old from the outside appearance and there may be a slight weep of diesel on the top there.
How awkward are they to change? Do you take the housing off the bulkhead to improve access? Does it have a lift pump to help purge the new filter of air or do you just have to fill the filter as much as possible with new diesel?

From what I've seen, there are quite a few variations of filter fitted to Multis. You should find a drain-off on the bottom of the canister; perhaps also a wired sensor that is supposed to detect moisture in the fuel and subsequently fire up the warning light on the dashboard, that's famous for going off in error because of a short in the wiring...

They are awkward to change, mainly because it's tight for space underneath them. It's often easier to unbolt the mounting casting from the bulkhead so that you can tilt the whole set up.

Measure the canister that's on there and then go online for a replacement. Also check what the connector at the bottom of the filter looks like. I've bought filters of the wrong size before now because I relied on the online product selector gizmos, only to find the filter wouldn't fit.

The Liquid Moly stuff is also good for dispersing any water in the fuel, so I'm told, so might be worth using even if you do take the injectors out for cleaning.

Glad she is running. If all OK then a new fuel filter might be all you need to do.

Mechanic who has worked on mine for years always put diesel in them, and then let the car complete the filling up when ignition put on.

Injectors out - can be hard to get out. All bolts into Aly head - risks
Seats may be damaged and need tool to clean them up.

I had one out recently on MK1 as it was blowing. Mechanic advised after that exhaust paste (not gum gum stuff) but more of soft sealant is what he uses on them as well as the copper washer.

There's an electric fuel pump in the tank, you can here it running for a few seconds when the ignition is switched on and it pressurises the system, a good idea to half fill the filter with fuel system cleaner when you replace it but system bleeds itself anyway.

There are some nasty threads on here telling tales of woe when trying to remove JTD injectors. I'd try a filter change & neat injector cleaner first, to see if that clears the problem.

Might also be worth a leak-off test? That may tell if if something's gone TU with one of the injectors.


If you do remove the injectors, freshly anneal the copper washers before fitting them, even if they are 'new' (as even new ones can have age hardened in the packet). I find that makes quite a difference when refitting the injector; you can feel the washer 'squishing' as you torque the clamp bolt.

Update:Multi has been pressed into service again as the wifes Altea has signs of head gasket failure and a failing CV joint.
The loss of power issue hasn't returned, I changed the fuel filter and filled with the liqui moly injector purge stuff that WMF recommended. The MAF has been left disconnected and in summary it was going quite well - albeit with a slipping clutch.

So I bit the bullet and swapped the clutch for the Mintex clutch I bought off ebay for £35. Put in some Comma gearbox oil (just under 2 litres) and splurged a whole can of brake cleaner. £60 worth of bits and 14 hrs to fit! I was on a go slow.

This is my second multi clutch so I was hoping to do it faster but I came across 3 stumbling points:
1. Lifting the gearbox back into place on my own. I tried to pull it up from above with both arms in the space made by removing the battery tray and airbox. It was nearly impossible, in the end a wooden lever under the box allowed me to lift it in baby steps, with a chain to support it from above when I needed a rest or a think.
2. The race of the centre bearing carrier on the offside driveshaft was mis-aligned with the bearing housing. I overcame the issue by reconnecting the rear lower engine mount and playing around with a jack under the sump and a crow bar on the driveshaft. Eventually it slid into place.
3. As I couldn't slide the offside driveshaft back it was impossible to put the offside lower ball joint back into the bottom arm. Anyway, once I got the centre bearing done it was relatively easy. It's another job where you need two sets of hands - one set to pull down the bottom arm and another set to manoeuvre the hub back onto the bottom ball joint.

So that was finished on the weekend so I've driven about 250 miles on the new clutch now. It has loads of bite as it first engages and doesn't slip at motorway speeds any more. I have the wider coupe alloys fitted at the moment so it hasn't managed to lose traction yet.

I would really like to try Galletto 1260 to download the maps on the ECU and see if I can make modifications and re-flash them onto the module. Then I can really put the clutch under some pressure.

I still have a timing belt kit and water pump to fit beforehand though - just to play it safe!

Nice to see it's back up and running Any close-up pictures of the condition of the fingers on the out-going clutch and the condition of the guide tube that goes over the gearbox input shaft?

What is Galletto 1260?!

yes i'll grab a close up of the pressure plate tonight, in general the front face of the fingers where they contact the release bearing were worn.
The guide tube, do you mean the stainless tube over the base of the input shaft of the gearbox? If so it looked ok - but no pictures i'm afraid. do they wear?

Galletto 1260 is software which allows you to download the ECU engine calibration. With the correct knowledge and tools you can modify the maps - eg boost, fuelling, MAF set point - and DIY remap your car.

See here for more info:
http://auto****e.com/topic/28372-glf-by-numbers-a-dave-q-and-320touring-production/

obviously this all comes with many disclaimers... many nuns and kittens will die....

Oh yes, and I downloaded a demo version of AlfaOBD which allowed me to look at a few readings on the fly. I've never managed to get Torque app working - possibly the wrong protocol? But anyway it is nice to have a plug in readout on your phone for free. Not sure if the £15 full version is worth getting?

shedenvy said:

The guide tube, do you mean the stainless tube over the base of the input shaft of the gearbox? If so it looked ok - but no pictures i'm afraid. do they wear?

Click to expand...

Yes, that's the one. It holds the release bearing concentric to the clutch fingers and doesn't usually get replaced. On many other cars, it's supplied as part of the clutch kit, but not on the JTD for some reason. As I mentioned in another (or this?) thread, I've my suspicions that wear of the guide tube may, at least in part, be responsible for premature wear of the clutch, especially the release bearing.

For diagnostics, have you looked at MultiECUScan?

Hi WMF, not sure what you wanted to see?

Had to have a look at the project. I miss the bug – but see it is now in expert hands.

shedenvy said:

Hi WMF, not sure what you wanted to see?View attachment 198228View attachment 198229

Click to expand...

Just wanted to see how bad the wear was. It doesn't look too bad at all in this case. I've seen them where the fingers were worn away to less than half of their original thickness. Was the release bearing still running freely?

I'm not sure how a worn guide tube would affect the wear of the fingers. Because the fingers are rotating, even if the release bearing was allowed to stray off-centre or to start pressing at an angle to the input shaft axis, the wear pattern on the fingers would still be even all of the way around. I guess the outer diameter of the groove witness would increase?

There are several 'modes' in which the clutch can fail on the JTD. If you're getting clutch slip in 3rd and 4th gear under full throttle, then it's fair to expect the problem to be a worn friction plate. However, a lot of others seem to go TU because one runs out of clutch pedal travel - it gets very difficult to get the car into 1st/2nd/reverse. If that's the case, I don't think the problem is a worn friction plate; it's more likely down to a knackered release bearing and/or worn fingers, or air trapped in the clutch hydraulics. Equally if the clutch hydraulics are not allowing the release bearing to fully retract, the guide tube is worn and making the release bearing stick (or the driver has a nasty habit of resting their foot on the clutch pedal all the time!), this is the more likely mode of failure. The hydraulic set-up on RHD Multis isn't adjustable (unlike the cable arrangement on LHD ones), so doing something to correct the problem is difficult.