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Old 02-09-2021   #1
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Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

Hello everyone!

I was wondering if somebody can give me some advice before I head to the garage. I had a bump earlier this year and since then Iíve noticed some issues with my car, some of which I donít think are related but the warranty with the garage is up this year so I want them to fix everything.

1) Front Brake collision sensor - this doesnít work. When I turn it on it turns back off. The garage said they apparently have to do a £3K bumper repair before they can fix it (biggest load of rubbish Iíve ever heard as you can easily get to the sense and the damage is all cosmetic!). I can probably buy a sensor from eBay but my friend who is a mechanic said to check whether the sensors for these cars are coded or not as if it was a coded sensor Iíd need the garage to do it? Can somebody enlighten me to this?

2) oil light - I bought the car Christmas before COVID. Since then I have had to top up the oil around 7 times, pretty much filling up from empty. Not once has the oil sensor light ever come on yet each time I check after a few months, the oil doesnít register on the dipstick. I think the sensor is either faulty or dirty but would this be the garages job to fix?

3) gear selectors - when drop down from high gears into first, I find itís very difficult to get it nicely into first without putting a bit of force into it. This is my first car and Iíve not driven any others so Iím not sure if itís normal? Also when itís in 5/6 hear it vibrates a lot and seems very easy to pop out of gear. It hasnít come out but it just seems rather feeble to me compared to 3/4

If anyone can help Iíd really appreciate it!
Thanks
Rob
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Old 02-09-2021   #2
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

What engine do you have in the car? As most fiats don't have an oil level Sensor

Also does the car report any errors with the auto braking or just keeps disabling itself from the menu
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Old 02-09-2021   #3
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

What engine do you have in the car? As most fiats don't have an oil level Sensor

Also does the car report any errors with the auto braking or just keeps disabling itself from the menu
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Old 02-09-2021   #4
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

Itís a 1.4L. The dash has an oil sensor light and the manual says there is one so I would find it difficult to believe if there was no sensor?

With the break system, when I start the car it just says check bake sensor and that red light means that the front collision sensor isnít working. Thatís the only error it gives.
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Old 02-09-2021   #5
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

Quote Originally Posted by RobHowdle View Post
It’s a 1.4L. The dash has an oil sensor light and the manual says there is one so I would find it difficult to believe if there was no sensor?

With the break system, when I start the car it just says check bake sensor and that red light means that the front collision sensor isn’t working. That’s the only error it gives.
1.416v or the tjet turbo version


And mine has a oil pressure light but nothing for oil level
What does your waiting like look like?
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Last edited by chris3234; 02-09-2021 at 21:47.
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Old 02-09-2021   #6
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

Standard 1.4 I believe.

I’ll find the manual in the morning and triple check but I’m sure there should be a light for the low oil.
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Old 03-09-2021   #7
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

1) Can't help with your question, but was your car not repaired under insurance, where this should have been done as well ?

2) oil light - The oil light is an Oil pressure warning, indicating that the oil pressure is low. The main cause of this is a low oil level, but it is a warning light rather than a gauge and so comes on fairly late, but I would have thought if the level was below dipstick level this would trigger it, but possibly not. The bigger issue here though is why you are having to refill your engine oil this regularly. I wouldn't expect to have to add oil at all between services, never mind 7 times from min to max. I would say this is your most pressing issue, especially if your warranty is coming to an end.

3) I would only expect to be dropping in to first if you're just about stationary, anything above this, I would suggest second. I was taught that 1st is only really to get the car moving. What speed is the car doing when trying to get in to first ? ( just that you mention dropping down from high gears)
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Last edited by Rocinante; 03-09-2021 at 15:22. Reason: .
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Old 05-09-2021   #8
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

Thank you for your reply. It hasnít been repaired at all as the garage are telling me to get the 3K body work done first for a few scratches because that might and I quote ďfix whatever problem there might be, but it might notĒ which I found hilarious personally. Havenít gone through Insurance as I was waiting to see if the other vehicle was going to first but itís approaching 6 months now and Iíve heard nothing.

With regards to the oil, Iím confused at this as well, there is no oil leaks anywhere that I can see. I do use my car quite a bit so perhaps thatís the reason but still that much seems rather excessive to me.

In regards to the gears. Itís most of I am approaching a place where I know Iíll be stopping. Sometimes I do go through the gears to slow down but other times if I know Iím coming to a dead stop Iíll gk from 5/6 to 1.

Many thanks
Rob
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Old 05-09-2021   #9
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If you've had a bump on the front it'll knock the radar sensor out of alignment and for the garage quote someone on here was quoted 600 quid just for a headlight !,so their quote makes sense,get a local garage to check that the radar sensor is fitted correctly,if it's aim is at all out it'll raise a light.
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Old 05-09-2021   #10
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

I'm afraid, if you're talking about the radar collision avoidance sensor/system then it's going to cost you money to get it properly realigned - it's not just a case of "fiddling" about with the sensor, it has to be aligned and maybe calibrated with some very specialist gear. There was a recent feature in Professional Motor Mechanic Magazine detailing what has to be done and the equipment needed - Not for the faint hearted.

Your oil consumption problem is potentially much your greatest concern. If you really are loosing this sort of quantity of oil and there's no obvious leak you've got a big problem and you need to be sure to get it sorted out before your warranty expires - Don't be fobbed off with "limp" excuses, it just shouldn't be doing this.

Regarding changing down into first gear if you are going at anything more than a "dribble" in terms of speed. If what you are doing is pushing the clutch pedal to the floor and trying to push the lever into first, well I just wouldn't do it unless I was literally almost rolling to a stop. What's happening inside the gearbox when you try to do this is that the "output" side of the gearbox (the shafts and gears connected to them) will be rotating at a speed dictated by how fast the car is moving. The 1st gear and shaft it's connected to which has on it's end the clutch driven plate all have to be spun up to a suitable speed so that the 1st gear can be engaged. That's what the synchronizing rings (little conical clutches) job is. As you push the gear lever towards the 1st gear position the first gear synchro rings are attempting to grab onto the faster rotating output side gear and will not let you push the lever fully into position until the speeds of the two gears have been equalized. If you are travelling at any sort of a speed at all these synchro rings have a very hard job to do and, if you try to change down at too high a speed then, if you do actually manage to get the gear engaged, you might be spinning the clutch driven plate (the one with the friction linings) to a speed it's not deigned to operate at. This is going to be pretty "unkind" to the input shaft bearing too. - Some call the input shaft the "first motion shaft"

Generally speaking changing up, so 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, etc puts relatively little strain on these synchros. Changing down involves much bigger speed differences between the gear assemblies so is harder on the synchros and trying to engage 1st if you are doing more than just dribbling along is possibly one of the most challenging things you can ask a synchro to do. So, if you need to select 1st then brake your speed off and only select the gear when you are down to close on walking pace or have come to a halt.

Double declutching was a technique us older chaps had to learn to drive smoothly back in the "old days" before synchros were developed and even in the 1960's there were still cars which had no synchros on first gear. Double declutching was a judgement call to spin the gears up so the speeds of both gear clusters were "synchronized" manually. This was the only way you could actually engage 1st gear whilst on the move with these older vehicles. The clutch pedal would be depressed and the gear lever moved into neutral. Then the pedal would be released (so engaging the clutch again) and the engine given a goodly blip of revs to spin up the gears on the input side of the box (how much was the judgement call) Then the pedal would be depressed again whilst the revs were quite high and the gear lever moved into engagement. If you got it right then the speeds of the two gear clusters would be rotating at roughly the same RPM just as you moved the lever and, hey presto, the gear would be engaged sweetly with no crunching - get it "right" and it's a very satisfying experience. Get it "wrong" and everyone within about a half mile's radius will know about it, much to your embarrassment! Really old cars and, in particular lorries, had no synchro on any gears so learning how to double declutch was all part of learning to drive.

If you have learned how to properly double declutch you can still do it with modern cars on the downchange and possibly save the synchros a bit of work and wear and achieve a very smooth gear change. However if it's worth doing on a modern car is very questionable because the synchromesh designs in today's vehicles are very good indeed and give little trouble unless grossly abused - say, like trying to change into first at 30+mph?

A final thought. Most cars don't have synchro on reverse gears which is why you'll often hear a crunch of the gears as reverse is engaged. This problem is actually exacerbated by the use of very thin, low drag, oils in modern gearboxes (so you get better MPG). Let's imagine we are sitting stationary with the engine ticking over and gearbox in neutral. What's happening here is that when the engine is running and you don't have your foot down on the clutch, the clutch friction plate and all the input side of the gearbox are rotating at engine speed - typically 800 to 900 rpm and that's pretty fast if you think about it - Now you want to engage a gear so you push the pedal down which disengages the clutch but the friction plate, input shaft and about half of the gears in the box are all spinning like a spinning top. Because they have considerable mass they don't just stop spinning instantly. If you go to engage 1st then the synchro grabs hold of the gear (I'm simplifying here) and very quickly stops the input shaft and clutch friction plate from spinning so you can smoothly complete the engagement of the gear. However reverse has no synchro! so the input side of the 'box needs a short period of time to slow down after you push the pedal to the floor. This actually happens quite quickly if the clutch is not dragging and because of the natural friction between the gears and also the viscosity of the oil exerting drag. It's important to realize this does take a short period of time though and if you simply push the pedal down and immediately select reverse that horrid grinding crashing noise you hear is the gear teeth skipping against each other and in the process knocking minute little slivers of metal off which will from then on circulate in the oil and get into the bearings etc so reducing their life. It's very easy to stop the grinding. Simply count to 3 seconds in your head as you go to select the reverse gear. So, as you push the pedal down say "one sec" to yourself in your head (don't say it out loud unless you want "funny" looks from your passengers though) The pedal will be on the floor as you complete "saying" that. Now, with the pedal on the floor, continue with "two sec" and "three sec". As you complete saying "three sec" move the gear lever from the neutral position to the reverse gear position and you'll find, if your clutch is in good order and not binding, it'll go in without any crunching and you can be happy thinking about how there's not going to be any wee metal swarfy chips circulating with the oil. By the way, there's always going to be the odd occasion when you or another driver gets it "wrong" and normal wear will contaminate the oil with synchro metal and other contaminants so an occasional gearbox oil change (say every 50,000 miles?) is highly desirable. "Sealed for life"? I don't believe in it!
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Old 07-09-2021   #11
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

Quote Originally Posted by RobHowdle View Post
With regards to the oil, I’m confused at this as well, there is no oil leaks anywhere that I can see. I do use my car quite a bit so perhaps that’s the reason but still that much seems rather excessive to me.
It appears excessive and as a minimum warrants further investigation under your warranty.
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Old 07-09-2021   #12
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Talking Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

Quote Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
It appears excessive and as a minimum warrants further investigation under your warranty.
Definitely excessive in 7 k I did last year I I KY used around 300ml of oil in my 1.4 16v engine
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Old 07-09-2021   #13
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Quote Originally Posted by chris3234 View Post
Definitely excessive in 7 k I did last year I I KY used around 300ml of oil in my 1.4 16v engine
Half a litre in 10,000 miles

Pretty good..

BUT.. I suspect the owner manual will say the Acceptable range is nearer

O.5 litres in ONE thousand kilometers
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Old 08-09-2021   #14
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

In a more general note, referring back to your original question on the oil light, and whose responsibility it is to fix it. If there is anything not working as it should, be it the gearbox, the oil pressure light, the oil consumption, or anything else that you've noticed. I'd raise it as warranty concern. The car should be working as it was when it left the factory within the warranty period, with the exception of consumables like brakes & tyres.

Let us know how you get on.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #15
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Re: Tipo Station Wagon 2018 Problems

Just to update everyone, I finally managed to get it booked in. Asked them to look at the front radar sensor, unusual oil consumption, the gear stick popping out in 6th gear and struggling to get it into first.

Low and behold they couldn’t replicate any faults at all (funny really because I bet if I was paying for it all they’d find lots of faults!) they want 300+ to recalibrate and align the front radar sensor to see if it needs replacing and they said the front sensor they have no idea how much but the last one they recalled ordering in began with a 4 and that’s all he said so that could be 40,400,4000 I have no idea. The oil situation, they want me to top it up, take a level reading and then after 500 miles take it back to them for them to take a look at it again. I’m currently looking at sourcing a replacement sensor myself although I’m having a job finding the right one.
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