Your most historic tool

[bugsymike]

Obviously a bit before your time Mike but I can remember seeing one being used although I was fairly young.
We must have had some old fashioned kit on our farm.

We had a few older farmers and their tractors come in when I was an apprentice, funnily enough, the only one I can remember was the one who offered me a drink from a rough cider flagon in an old shopping bag tied on his tractor I was fixing, went down a treat on a hot day.

 

[Rocking robin]

Ok guys (and girls) - here's a few of the tools I bought back in the 60s towards the end of my college days and just starting into work:

View attachment 439678

The socket set was a special offer at the local factors, made by Kampmann Germany. in AF and Whitworth sizes but, in typical thorough German fashion, the appropriate sockets are also double marked in their equivalent metric sizes! I broke the ratchet and replaced it with the Gordon one you see here. It's got very course teeth but seems unbreakable and the power bar and "T" handle were later Britool purchases. The beam type torque wrench - bottom right - was on offer at the same time so I bought it too. I was very surprised to find it tested out pretty accurate against my digital torque wrench recently. The tool maker's clamp, centre finder and set square were test pieces I made in college around 1959? You'll see the footprint wrench just to the left of them? Well, to it's left is a very cheap pattern made copy which surprisingly actually works better! Have a guess at the rest if you like - some should be easy but some not so maybe?

Wow looks awesome, I prefer tools that can tell a story , my tools consist of some of my fathers tools that were from the 1960s

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Brittool torque wrench yes, but didn't like the other beam type, Stromberg carb adjusters, crows foot for pinto valve clearances,never used that type of nut splitter, the old type axle plug spanner yes, brake adjusters and bleeders,etc. etc.
Glad to see you look after your tools better than me.

Aye, I'm not that keen on the beam type myself but it was cheap and I was working on my old Anglia's engine (on the kitchen table) at the time. I was very pleasantly surprised to find, all these years later, that it is actually quite accurate. Mind you the Anglia took us London to Edinburgh on it's first outing after the engine refurb without blowing up.

Aye, Stromberg carbs, never liked them as much as the SU. Rubber diaphragms? silly idea on something so closely associated with petrol! Did you notice the very long spark plug box spanner in the middle for doing ----------- Peugeot 504 spark plugs! Quite nostalgic looking at these all gathered together and then looking at all the newer shinier stuff in my chest.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

We had a few older farmers and their tractors come in when I was an apprentice, funnily enough, the only one I can remember was the one who offered me a drink from a rough cider flagon in an old shopping bag tied on his tractor I was fixing, went down a treat on a hot day.

The wee country garage I worked in for a number of years was a BL agency. We did a lot of farmer's Land Rovers - series 2 and 3 mostly. Although filthy vehicles to work on I grew to love them and later ended up doing most of them as the other men didn't like the muck. from time to time you'd find the odd dead sheep in the back which, if you didn't get the job finished in a reasonable time could get a bit "niffy"! Worst I ever had was when I unknowingly worked on one which had been involved with chemicals - I came out in a bright red rash for a couple of days after that one!

 

[Cornish Ian]

We had a few older farmers and their tractors come in when I was an apprentice, funnily enough, the only one I can remember was the one who offered me a drink from a rough cider flagon in an old shopping bag tied on his tractor I was fixing, went down a treat on a hot day.

Yes some of that cider used to go down well but it was pretty potent. Often affected ones memory though.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes some of that cider used to go down well but it was pretty potent. Often affected ones memory though.

I thought I'd been pretty drunk in Edinburgh drinking Half and a Half - "heavy" (beer) followed by a whisky chaser - but it took a holiday with my Kidderminster friends down in the west country drinking rough cider to really appreciate how truly debilitating a hangover can be!

 

[Cornish Ian]

I thought I'd been pretty drunk in Edinburgh drinking Half and a Half - "heavy" (beer) followed by a whisky chaser - but it took a holiday with my Kidderminster friends down in the west country drinking rough cider to really appreciate how truly debilitating a hangover can be!

We used to have a local pub that used to sell very strong rough cider. Real cobwebs but the beer and cider were good. The owner used to suggest a half to anyone that wasn’t used to it. Some were sorry they didn’t take his advice.
I remember an old guy who always used to be there just sitting at the bar sipping away at his pint of cider, he seemed part of the furniture. Always there when we arrived and I don’t remember ever seeing him leave. I hate to think how many he got through in an evening but he was definitely a “consistent” drinker. I suspect he was a bit shaky before the first pint or so though.

 

[bugsymike]

Aye, I'm not that keen on the beam type myself but it was cheap and I was working on my old Anglia's engine (on the kitchen table) at the time. I was very pleasantly surprised to find, all these years later, that it is actually quite accurate. Mind you the Anglia took us London to Edinburgh on it's first outing after the engine refurb without blowing up.

Aye, Stromberg carbs, never liked them as much as the SU. Rubber diaphragms? silly idea on something so closely associated with petrol! Did you notice the very long spark plug box spanner in the middle for doing ----------- Peugeot 504 spark plugs! Quite nostalgic looking at these all gathered together and then looking at all the newer shinier stuff in my chest.

We used to find if they pushed the choke in to soon and the engine backfired it split the diaphragm, but I can remember often holding them up to the light and stretching the rubber checking for holes.
I did have a 2.0 litre 504 Auto that I rebuilt the engine and then swapped it over in my old works 504 diesel pick up, straight swap diesel manual to petrol automatic both vehicles side by side, so that I ended up with a 504 Family Estate diesel manual, all parts interchanged, I only had to fit a diesel return pipe.
The rough cider was very dry, my first father in law used to go in the pub and ask for a pint of "diesel" they knew what he wanted. Once the first pint has gone down it gets easier , a bit like some peoples "home brew" beer. A couple of pints was enough for most people, one is enough for me these days.
Same around here bars used to serve halfs to the "foreigners, grockles in Devon or emmits in Cornwall",(anyone not local)?
Re the Land Rovers Jock, I believe I mentioned to you before about doing a clutch job on one for the local riding stable and two years later the girls had burnt the clutch out again and I found my 7/16ths A/F Brittool spanner still stuck on one of the seat bolts from underneath, still quite usable. I learnt to drive on a Series one Land Rover Breakdown with a Harvey Frost crane in the back, that and a Ford 100E sidevalve works van on the local council tip.
Don't know what any of this has to do with Fiats though.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Same around here bars used to serve halfs to the "foreigners, grockles in Devon or emmits in Cornwall",(anyone not local)?
Re the Land Rovers Jock, I believe I mentioned to you before about doing a clutch job on one for the local riding stable and two years later the girls had burnt the clutch out again and I found my 7/16ths A/F Brittool spanner still stuck on one of the seat bolts from underneath, still quite usable. I learnt to drive on a Series one Land Rover Breakdown with a Harvey Frost crane in the back, that and a Ford 100E sidevalve works van on the local council tip.
Don't know what any of this has to do with Fiats though.

Talking about beers, having grown up in the Scottish Borders and in Edinburgh I was weened on your typical Scottish pub beers, for instance Tennents or McEwans. These are typically a bit on the "fizzy" side compared to your English offerings. I remember that being a bit of a shock when I had my first pint down south - I thought it was "off".

"Foreigners" seems to be mostly what they call strangers in North Devon - near Barnstaple - where Mrs J's sister lives.

We had an early Landy with a crane on the back just like that. Ours was, slightly unusually, blue. I used to earn extra money by being the designated callout for weekends. The garage runabout was a very rusty mini van with a hole in the passenger side floor through which you could see the road going by! Boss said it was for ventilation as some of the lads weren't too fussy about personal hygiene!

Talking about "lost tools". My dad was very keen on his cars and always owned something just a little bit special. However, being an architect, he didn't have much knowledge of the "oily bits" so the car would go up to Edinburgh to the Jag dealer for it's services and repairs. On one occasion, The 3.8 Mk2 with triple carbs (like the E type) which he had at that time, after being returned, the car developed an intermittent misfire. He was going to take it back up to then, a journey of some 70 miles round trip, so I suggested I have a quick look. I was only in my early teens then with no training but was very enthusiastic about cars so he never let me near his cars. I got to open the bonnet with him, suspiciously, looking on, and there, in the valley between the twin cams, was a combination spanner. It must have been merrily rattling around and, when in just the right position, shorting out a plug or two! It was a nice Britool spanner, which went straight into my wee cantilever tool box, and I was looking for it to show in the thread running about "historic tools" just now but I can't find it - got to be somewhere, or maybe it's off on another journey under someone else's bonnet?

 

[bugsymike]

Talking about beers, having grown up in the Scottish Borders and in Edinburgh I was weened on your typical Scottish pub beers, for instance Tennents or McEwans. These are typically a bit on the "fizzy" side compared to your English offerings. I remember that being a bit of a shock when I had my first pint down south - I thought it was "off".
Talking about "lost tools". My dad was very keen on his cars and always owned something just a little bit special. However, being an architect, he didn't have much knowledge of the "oily bits" so the car would go up to Edinburgh to the Jag dealer for it's services and repairs. On one occasion, The 3.8 Mk2 with triple carbs (like the E type) which he had at that time, after being returned, the car developed an intermittent misfire. He was going to take it back up to then, a journey of some 70 miles round trip, so I suggested I have a quick look. I was only in my early teens then with no training but was very enthusiastic about cars so he never let me near his cars. I got to open the bonnet with him, suspiciously, looking on, and there, in the valley between the twin cams, was a combination spanner. It must have been merrily rattling around and, when in just the right position, shorting out a plug or two! It was a nice Britool spanner, which went straight into my wee cantilever tool box, and I was looking for it to show in the thread running about "historic tools" just now but I can't find it - got to be somewhere, or maybe it's off on another journey under someone else's bonnet?

Re the beer I do keep emergency rations of McEwans, years ago it was on draught down here, but even tins are hard to get now.
Re the Jag, having triple carbs I assume a 3.8 S type. My accountant had a XJ6 at one time in the 1980s that I needed to adjust the top cam chain, so made up a tool for the job which works on most of that engine range although, I see as in last photo there is a propriety one available these days, it worked but only ever used the once.
The other angled tool I made after talking to a Iveco mechanic, it was for adjusting the handbrake shoes inside the rear brake discs on my 3.5 tonne twin wheel Daily's and just behind the leaf spring to do the job, simple but effective.
I have made up several basic tools for certain jobs, but given the state of my garage I couldn't find, though whilst digging for these I did find some more of the Whitworth Brittool spanners from 1970 so there is hope.

 

[Johnbee]

In the early 50’s my grandad bought my nan a Marples and Sons tool chest, as she did all the decorating and repairs around the house. That’s how it was back in the day apparently!

I use the hand drill, saw, spirit level and hammer regularly. To be fair, I do find the tools all a bit small, but they are apparently ladies tools.The handles are a bit smaller, but built to last.

 

[bugsymike]

In the early 50’s my grandad bought my nan a Marples and Sons tool chest, as she did all the decorating and repairs around the house. That’s how it was back in the day apparently!

I use the hand drill, saw, spirit level and hammer regularly. To be fair, I do find the tools all a bit small, but they are apparently ladies tools.The handles are a bit smaller, but built to last.

Lovely tool set.
Wise to let the wife do the decorating back then.
It reminds me of my first father in law who got into an argument when they were both wall papering and she ended up wrapped in the pasted wet wall paper.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Re the beer I do keep emergency rations of McEwans, years ago it was on draught down here, but even tins are hard to get now.
Re the Jag, having triple carbs I assume a 3.8 S type. My accountant had a XJ6 at one time in the 1980s that I needed to adjust the top cam chain, so made up a tool for the job which works on most of that engine range although, I see as in last photo there is a propriety one available these days, it worked but only ever used the once.
The other angled tool I made after talking to a Iveco mechanic, it was for adjusting the handbrake shoes inside the rear brake discs on my 3.5 tonne twin wheel Daily's and just behind the leaf spring to do the job, simple but effective.
I have made up several basic tools for certain jobs, but given the state of my garage I couldn't find, though whilst digging for these I did find some more of the Whitworth Brittool spanners from 1970 so there is hope.

First off, jolly good for that stash of McEwans Export. Thanks for supporting the Scottish economy! I notice also the cans of Stella? It's rise to fame as a premium beer has always puzzled me. Back in the days I worked for Firestone on the European racing circuits it was considered a cheap option in many of the beer halls etc we used to frequent after the race.

That Jag - one of many he owned, he actually had the first ever XJ6 registered in Scotland (I think one of the cousins was a managing director - or something of that ilk - in Rossleighs the Jag main dealers) and before that he had one of the very first Mk10's, never owned an S type which I thought was one of the prettiest Jags ever made? (not the modern version of course). Anyway, that original Jag was actually a special order Mk2. It came about because he'd bought one of the first 2.4 Mk2's, having previously had a Mk1 - another "attractive" jag in my opinion, like the one in "Endevour" on the telly and his was black too - anyway, quite quickly it became apparent that this 2.4 had a voracious appetite for oil. It was in and out of the garage a few times before they took the head off and discovered the bores were deeply pitted with rust. I think the storey was that it was one of a batch of cars which had been left out in the rain with no bonnet or head on? (I can't really remember, I was quite young) anyway this cousin asked if the 3.8 would be of any interest as it was a customer special order which the customer was subsequently unable to pay for. It had a few "extras" like cut down rear wheel spats, the tripple carbs, etc. Dad jumped at it. They kept the 2.4 and he later told me he secured the 3.8 for the difference in price between the new 2.4 and a standard 3.8. - Jammy or what?

Talking about things from day's of old and maybe deja vu? Thought you might like this:

It's me folks, probably sometime around 1948? on the bonnet of one of my Dad's favorite cars - a 6 cylinder MG which he often talking about whenever the subject of previously owned cars came up. We found it amongst many other family snaps last time we were down clearing out my deceased brother's house (not finished yet by a long way) Written on the back, in my father's hand, is my name followed by "Mechanical whizz kid" - little did he know!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

In the early 50’s my grandad bought my nan a Marples and Sons tool chest, as she did all the decorating and repairs around the house. That’s how it was back in the day apparently!

I use the hand drill, saw, spirit level and hammer regularly. To be fair, I do find the tools all a bit small, but they are apparently ladies tools.The handles are a bit smaller, but built to last.

What a lovely thing to have. The box alone is beautiful. Marples of course, makers of very high quality stuff, especially well known for their wood chisels. A "proper" saw too. By which I mean one you can resharpen - a skill well worth learning to do.

 

[bugsymike]

First off, jolly good for that stash of McEwans Export. Thanks for supporting the Scottish economy! I notice also the cans of Stella? It's rise to fame as a premium beer has always puzzled me. Back in the days I worked for Firestone on the European racing circuits it was considered a cheap option in many of the beer halls etc we used to frequent after the race.

That Jag - one of many he owned, he actually had the first ever XJ6 registered in Scotland (I think one of the cousins was a managing director - or something of that ilk - in Rossleighs the Jag main dealers) and before that he had one of the very first Mk10's, never owned an S type which I thought was one of the prettiest Jags ever made? (not the modern version of course). Anyway, that original Jag was actually a special order Mk2. It came about because he'd bought one of the first 2.4 Mk2's, having previously had a Mk1 - another "attractive" jag in my opinion, like the one in "Endevour" on the telly and his was black too - anyway, quite quickly it became apparent that this 2.4 had a voracious appetite for oil. It was in and out of the garage a few times before they took the head off and discovered the bores were deeply pitted with rust. I think the storey was that it was one of a batch of cars which had been left out in the rain with no bonnet or head on? (I can't really remember, I was quite young) anyway this cousin asked if the 3.8 would be of any interest as it was a customer special order which the customer was subsequently unable to pay for. It had a few "extras" like cut down rear wheel spats, the tripple carbs, etc. Dad jumped at it. They kept the 2.4 and he later told me he secured the 3.8 for the difference in price between the new 2.4 and a standard 3.8. - Jammy or what?

Talking about things from day's of old and maybe deja vu? Thought you might like this:

View attachment 439708

It's me folks, probably sometime around 1948? on the bonnet of one of my Dad's favorite cars - a 6 cylinder MG which he often talking about whenever the subject of previously owned cars came up. We found it amongst many other family snaps last time we were down clearing out my deceased brother's house (not finished yet by a long way) Written on the back, in my father's hand, is my name followed by "Mechanical whizz kid" - little did he know!

The Stella was part of a mixed selection left over from Bin men etc. Christmas box, not for personal consumption.
The 2.4 and 3.4 were not so popular as I recall, it was 3.8 most appreciated.
I believe I mentioned before in the past I had a choice of a Mk 10 Jag for £80 or a 1964 MGB Roadster for £90, went for the MGB on the assumption the economy would be better, unfortunately my driving used to return 18mpg at the time. So one of few cars I have never owned is a Jaguar although I always yearned for a Mk9.
My dad with his brother owned a pre War MG sports car but I never had any details of it.
I won't be sharing it, but I recently found a photo of me and my sisters along with mum and dad outside a octagonal photo booth sat on a stuffed Bengal Tiger by the look of it, strangely enough the photo hut is now in a neighbours back garden after roughly 64 years.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

So one of few cars I have never owned is a Jaguar although I always yearned for a Mk9.

I won't be sharing it, but I recently found a photo of me and my sisters along with mum and dad outside a octagonal photo booth sat on a stuffed Bengal Tiger by the look of it,

After the Mk1 my Dad had a Mk7 - the one with full depth rear wheel spats and I remember, as a very young lad, being out with him when we had a puncture and the "colourful" language he used when trying to get the spat off. Probably one of the only times I heard him swear until I was a lot older.

Regarding that picture, oh go on, please do!

 

[Johnbee]

Lovely tool set.
Wise to let the wife do the decorating back then.
It reminds me of my first father in law who got into an argument when they were both wall papering and she ended up wrapped in the pasted wet wall paper.

Thankyou. My nan was quite old fashioned (even back then). Always had his dinner ready when he came home from work and laid his clothes out every morning for him. But they were so happy together and married for over 75 years.

 

[Johnbee]

What a lovely thing to have. The box alone is beautiful. Marples of course, makers of very high quality stuff, especially well known for their wood chisels. A "proper" saw too. By which I mean one you can resharpen - a skill well worth learning to do.

Thanks. I didn’t know the saw could be re sharpened. Something for me to look into, though it’s still quite sharp for indoor use.

I had seen the tool chest at my grandparents house many years ago and then after they passed I didn’t see it again. When I was sorting out my late dads house I found it in the cupboard under the stairs, wrapped in newspaper from the 70’s, along with 100’s of lead soldiers and horses. It, along with the soldiers (which I’d only ever heard about, when my dad talked about them. He used to tell me how he was only allowed to play with them under supervision) must have been the first things they put in the under stair cupboard when they moved there in 84.

All the tools are stamped Marples and there is even the little diagram so you know where they all fit. I’ve seen how much a Marples chisel is worth but never seen a complete set, other than this one.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

First off, jolly good for that stash of McEwans Export. Thanks for supporting the Scottish economy! I notice also the cans of Stella? It's rise to fame as a premium beer has always puzzled me. Back in the days I worked for Firestone on the European racing circuits it was considered a cheap option in many of the beer halls etc we used to frequent after the race.

That Jag - one of many he owned, he actually had the first ever XJ6 registered in Scotland (I think one of the cousins was a managing director - or something of that ilk - in Rossleighs the Jag main dealers) and before that he had one of the very first Mk10's, never owned an S type which I thought was one of the prettiest Jags ever made? (not the modern version of course). Anyway, that original Jag was actually a special order Mk2. It came about because he'd bought one of the first 2.4 Mk2's, having previously had a Mk1 - another "attractive" jag in my opinion, like the one in "Endevour" on the telly and his was black too - anyway, quite quickly it became apparent that this 2.4 had a voracious appetite for oil. It was in and out of the garage a few times before they took the head off and discovered the bores were deeply pitted with rust. I think the storey was that it was one of a batch of cars which had been left out in the rain with no bonnet or head on? (I can't really remember, I was quite young) anyway this cousin asked if the 3.8 would be of any interest as it was a customer special order which the customer was subsequently unable to pay for. It had a few "extras" like cut down rear wheel spats, the tripple carbs, etc. Dad jumped at it. They kept the 2.4 and he later told me he secured the 3.8 for the difference in price between the new 2.4 and a standard 3.8. - Jammy or what?

Talking about things from day's of old and maybe deja vu? Thought you might like this:

View attachment 439708

It's me folks, probably sometime around 1948? on the bonnet of one of my Dad's favorite cars - a 6 cylinder MG which he often talking about whenever the subject of previously owned cars came up. We found it amongst many other family snaps last time we were down clearing out my deceased brother's house (not finished yet by a long way) Written on the back, in my father's hand, is my name followed by "Mechanical whizz kid" - little did he know!

My son will be 2 in a couple of weeks time and is already car obsessed. He can spot a mini a mile off knows his Uncles make and model of car (a bmw 1 series though he doesn't know what its called that is "Uncle....'s car" he knows "engine" "wheel" and even managed to put the key in the punto and turn it, fortunately not to turn it on, I managed to stop that.

It is sad to think he will likely be of the last generation to have internal combustion cars, as while they are still phasing them out, by the time he is in his 30s he it will be 2050 and I very much doubt by then anyone will be making ICE cars, or trading many of them second hand (look how many 30 year old cars are still on the road now) So I will have to train him in the ways of maintaining these cars now, as those skills will probably be in short supply by then. repairing an engine in 2050 will be be seen a some artisan craft by then I suspect with very few people knowing how to do it.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks. I didn’t know the saw could be re sharpened. Something for me to look into, though it’s still quite sharp for indoor use

Generally speaking only the older ones can. I think you can buy resharpenable ones today but they are not popular and cost more than your ordinary Screwfix (other vendors are available) induction hardened type

All the tools are stamped Marples and there is even the little diagram so you know where they all fit. I’ve seen how much a Marples chisel is worth but never seen a complete set, other than this one.

I wouldn't be surprised to find a tool collector would pay quite a bit for that set?

Anyway, resharpenable saws. How do you know if a saw you have is resharpenable? you need to look at the teeth and see if there is any sign of induction hardening. This is usually easily seen because the heat process discolours the metal and produces a thin line of blued metal like this:

look now at the teeth on some of the older saws I have:

See any discolouration? No? then these can be sharpened. I believe it's possible to sharpen hardened blades with diamond tools but the cost of doing so probably outstrips the cost of simply buying a new induction hardened saw.

The actual sharpening itself is not difficult if you have average hand skills and especially if you've done a bit of metal filing. You need a couple of straight flat pieces of wood to hold the saw blade steady. A flat file to true the face of the teeth before you start sharpening the teeth themselves and a triangular file - an ordinary one is ok when you are learning and developing your skill but a "proper" saw file is a slightly different shape and well worth buying once you are skilled and if you intend to be sharpening your saws on a regular basis. You'll also need a saw set so you can offset the teeth to stop the saw jamming up in the cut. Setting, or staggering, the teeth is the last thing you do and because it's the most expensive tool maybe try the sharpening first to see how you get on and then buy the setting tool if you decide you're making a good job of it. Here's my wee collection:

I shaped my wooden clamp to fit but a couple of plain flat bits of wood clamped in a vice will do just as well.

For detailed instruction try you tube, there are many very good tutorials on there.

When I was younger I was all into cars etc and only at 50 years old, when I took over the gardening squad, did I become interested in woodwork. Since then I've collected a number of old and newer saws with teeth ranging from 5TPI (Teeth per inch) which I use for "ripping" or sawing along the grain through 6TPI to 8TPI which I use for "crosscutting" ie cutting across the grain. (8TPI is a very common size and makes a good all round saw that can be used for general work) I also have some 12TPI saws for cutting laminate and a very special tenon saw I rescued from a shed we were asked to demolish on an allotment. I absolutely love it:

I think this is the maker:

and on the other side maybe the original owner?

It's a lovely bit of kit with a really rigid fine tooth 12TPI blade which allows very accurate cuts to be made. I asked the guy we were junking the shed for whether he wanted it but he said no, just chuck it in the skip. It didn't look like it does now back then, the blade was quite thick with rust and the brass was sort of green and "horrid" but it cleaned up well and it's my favourite saw. Looking out for old saws at jumble/car boot sales is now a bit of a hobby for me.