Technical wobbly bolts, spacers = bolts rubbing

[mahol]

So I have had my alloys and 10mm spacers fitted for over 4 years now with no problems until yesterday.

I started getting a creaking, squealing noise, scrapping noise. Took it to the garage they said the bolts were too long and scraping on the adjuster springs and internals of the rear hubs/drums.

Anyway, I've compared my factory fiat bolts before the alloys: i think the tread length is about 19mm, the wobbly bolts i got with the alloys and spacers are about 30mm long.

The garage said i would only need bolts to be a couple of mm's shorter so…I have found some bolts which are 26mm/27mm long (getting this confirmed with the guy selling them) and some that are 28mm long. I'm edging towards the 26mm/27mm ones as 4 or 3mm difference surely has a better chance of sorting the problem.

Wanted to check on here if anyone have experience this and/or resolved this

thanks
Matt

 

[s and b]

im very amazed that a garage would advise on something like this with 1 centimeter spacers fitted on a road car as they could be held responsible if the wheel rips out as they often do
i wonder if your insurer is aware of these too? dont like stuff like this on the roads fiats werent designed for such offset rims ,there was a balljoint snapped clean in half on here a week ago because of torsional stresses
i forgot to add if your bolts are now hitting the internals of the drum it means they are definitely eating through your rims

 

[fingers99]

I'd suspect that something else is happening as well. For sure, if the bolts are too long, you can get contact issues. But after 4 years?

If the corrected ET (the ET on the fitted wheels minus the spacer width in mm) is within 3mm of the ET of the original wheels, then the offset won't cause any safety issues (unless something is touching/will touch. Alfa, FIAT and Porsche all use spacers in exactly that way. They know what they're doing. The inference is obvious enough!

But I'd never use wobble bolts -- just a personal quirk.

If the existing bolts are just a couple of mm too long, find a nut to fit, put in on, use an angle grinder to take a couple of mm off the end -- the nut will clean up the thread.

 

[mahol]

Thanks for the replies,

Im looking into this, I should have added I only have spacers at the rear (I wouldn't want to put them on the front anyway, no need) because the OZ superleggeras have a different offset to the standard sporting alloys, without the spacers the tyre touches/or is extremely close to the bolt that connects the rear struts.

I copied the exact process a few other superleggera owners have followed on here.

Going to first attempt shorter bolts by a few mm's, then take it from there.

 

[dave]

is it on both sides?

as its only just started i'd check wheel bearing

 

[mahol]

AH BALLS… typo realised i put 10mm when actually they are only 5mm. may bad.

its only mildly more on one side than the other, it does it on both sides.
It was doing it more in reverse yesterday, since the garage has had a play it is as bad in reverse actually.

 

[fingers99]

Always a bad idea to put spacers on the back and not at the front -- it destroys turn in especially on FWD cars.

The reason spacers are used is to return the ET to the factory figures, not for issues of getting the wheels/tyres to fit or for cosmetics.

 

[dave]

check wheel bearings, if they have worn the play will make bolts sit closer to the stuff behind them.
spacers make wheel bearings wear quicker too.

 

[fingers99]

spacers make wheel bearings wear quicker too

Only if they're the wrong size. Think about it -- if the ET is the same before and after the wheel change, the bearing won't know!

 

[dave]

i was asuming op fitted them for looks rather than correction, my bad.

 

[fingers99]

i was asuming op fitted them for looks rather than correction, my bad.

I think in this case you're probably right!

I was commenting on it as a general proposition.

 

[mahol]

Actually No, the spacers are not for looks…Never have been. Already corrected the typo in the OP.

They are to correct the offset and ensure the alloys away from the strut, which was only an issue on the rear wheel fitment. Original Alloys (sporting ones) were 15" 6.5J ET35 the OZ ones are 15" 7J ET 37. According to other users on here and puntomk2.co.uk at the time, owners of the same alloys had experienced good results with 5mm spacers. (IIRC various calculators were advising an extension of 4mm, I could only find 5mm spacers any way)

I have worked out that the bolts should have been no longer than 28mm Bolts. For what ever reason I trusted the vendor of the spacers had supplied the correct bolts and they are actually 31mm long, and the wobbly taper section is completely removable. I wouldn't have thought 3mm extra length would cause much of a problem and it hasn't for 4 years, until the other day.

Im not familiar with how the internals of the brake drums work but is it possible that as the shoes have worn the adjuster springs may have got closer the bolts?

Also I read mixed opinions on here but I read somewhere saying the factory bolt length is a minimum of 21mm I don't have any at hand to check, is this correct?
If it is… if i were to buy 26mm bolts (21mm+5mm) hopefully that will take the "bolts too long" diagnosis out of the equation. Wheel bearings are fine BTW checked them.

 

[Ziggy122]

Check the rear drums shoes have been setup correctly, my guess is that some numpty might not have seated one correctly and allowing the rubbing to commence

Ziggy

 

[fingers99]

They are to correct the offset and ensure the alloys away from the strut, which was only an issue on the rear wheel fitment.

Well, it's you car. But if you used a 5mm spacer to correct the offset at the rear, how can the offset at the front be correct?

 

[mahol]

Sorry forget to update... It turns out when the guy at the garage fitted the spacers he inserted 2 new bolts, where the pointed locating ones are as standard (I don't know what the actually name of these are). I think it must have been from when I had a puncture repaired about a month or so ago, and it took a while for the noise to be heard or get loud enough to hear.

These were the problem as they were just touching the adjuster on one side. I've taken these off and put some new ones on.

Also had the adjuster checked during the latest service, so all is well

P.s while I was in the process of changing the wheel bolts, as I had some kicking around, I fitted spacers at the front as well and I fitted some new spigots which I had made a while back, as the most common ones have tapers like on this picture [http://www.autoinparts.com/images/SPIGOT-RING-COVER-800.jpg] so I had some made without a taper that fitted perfectly to the hub, probably pointless but it was much easier locating the wheel.