General why modify a panda?

[jimbo118]

Over the years, I've pretty modified every car I've owned - some more sucessfully than others. I actually enjoy doing it and despite sinking ££££s over the years, I have no regrets.
I have no plans to modify the wife's 100hp but will continue to tweak my S1 Elise which is currently running a power to weight ratio of 215bhp/tonne, and is still reliable

 

[Pandemonium]

Perhaps the Panda comparison isn't such a good one then because as you say, the gap between entry-level and 100HP isn't a huge one [my first car was a 1.0 Nova and there was no way that I could ever buy/insure a GTE]. However, if I was 17 again, I know that I wouldn't be able to afford a 100HP and if I had a Panda Active, I would modify it in the way I stated earlier. As for the insurance implications, there may be an increase but again, this can be spread out over monthly payments. Having said that, may I refer you to your own post in another thread:



Suspension, exhaust, wheels are going onto my Panda Active

That insurance policy was only available to the over 25's so right back at ya.

 

[LeanMeanRacing]

That insurance policy was only available to the over 25's so right back at ya.

Oops! One to you, good Sir!

I have been lucky as I am a named driver on my Dad's motor trader's policy - any modification goes [for those who are easily worried, I have separate insurance for my tuition vehicle].

 

[Pandemonium]

Oops! One to you, good Sir!

I have been lucky as I am a named driver on my Dad's motor trader's policy - any modification goes [for those who are easily worried, I have separate insurance for my tuition vehicle].

I think its a really cool idea that you teach people to drive in a 100hp....

Hold on, is that why there are so many bambinos driving 100hp's??

Its because YOU taught them to drive didnt you and they loved the car!

 

[Van Diemen]

I suppose all this is a very personal thing. There are some cars that are 'worth' modifying, in that they respond well to certain mods (cosmetic or performance). However, rarely is it a sound financial investment on any car. I would agree that it makes a lot more sense to save and stretch to a 100hp though....

 

[pandasam]

performace wise its better to modify a fast car to start with but i reckon there is a market for slow cars too as your more likely to focus on asthetics

seeing as you have a lotus with the k engine you may be interested in this

http://www.morego.co.uk/bbr-gti/RoverK.php

 

[306maxi]

I suppose all this is a very personal thing. There are some cars that are 'worth' modifying, in that they respond well to certain mods (cosmetic or performance). However, rarely is it a sound financial investment on any car. I would agree that it makes a lot more sense to save and stretch to a 100hp though....

Very true. The thing I think people need to understand is that modification should be done to strengthen weaknesses in a car OR as part of a series of updates like for instance if you were to put a really stiff ARB in and some coilovers you might want to put a strut brace in, but if you just put a strut brace in it's going to do sod all on its own.

I bought some heavy duty alloy droplinks with poly bushes for the wifes Subaru and although the car hardly needs it as it's running the standard ARB and 16 year old suspension but the bushes on the car really need doing and I don't see the point in spending money on getting new plastic droplinks


Mmmmmm suspension bit porn

 

[Van Diemen]

performace wise its better to modify a fast car to start with but i reckon there is a market for slow cars too as your more likely to focus on asthetics

seeing as you have a lotus with the k engine you may be interested in this

http://www.morego.co.uk/bbr-gti/RoverK.php

Seeing as this thread is about modifying cars, I'll post this as a valid thread drift...

I took the decision with my Elise to leave it completely standard until I could make a big change. That change came in the form of fitting a Cosworth 2.3L Ford Duratec engine with the results here: http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id=288_109&sort=rec&but_sea=qs&sea_simple=elise/index.htm . There are plenty of 220bhp to 300bhp Elises around, so it isn't particularly exceptional within the fraternity.

Was it 'worth' doing? Financially, even though it's a reputable engine and a great name association (Lotus Cosworth and all that), I think I'll break even purely because I was an employee and bought a used (cheaper) engine and installed it myself. It does do everything I want on road and track, with the only downside being more induction roar. My debate is now whether to ever fit a motorsport body kit, similar to an Exige. Ultimately this is just wasted money, but they look so great.

My sister has a completely standard Elise. I've advised her to not modify it all all (save for replacing worn out items where sensible). In standard trim it's still pretty entertaining, and if she wants a modified car she might as well sell it and buy a heavilly modified one. With the money she'd save, she can tweak/customise it to her interest anyway.

Customising can easilly turn into a mugs game, but it is quite fun anyway.......

 

[R1NGA]

I have to agree with Van Diemen - I've never left a car standard in my life, other than a company Sierra 20 years ago - and it is all part of the petrolhead hobby. We're all car enthusiasts (which is fundamentally why we're here) and we're a dying breed I fear. Too many non-petrol people just wanting to get from A-to-B and willing to let the bureaucrats drive them into automobile mediocrity. These same people will tell you that if mods were that easy, then they'd do them at the factory - WRONG - they want a single spec for as much of the planets buyers as possible. I want a spec for me!

I have a Renaultsport Spider, which is a fantastic car, with a proper race-car designed chassis (lighter than a Panda), that was then compromised by Renault to get it on the road quickly and under all the EU regs. It was strangled to 150bhp and with rock-solid Bilstein suspension that was simply never configured correctly for the car. But with a full set of Ohlins suspension, induction, head, cams and exhaust fettling, it now has 185bhp (150 std), brakes to die-for and a chassis setup that breathes with the road and floats over everything. The car is transformed.

Did similar to the RS6 too - MTM engine and exhaust upgrade (now 540bhp/530torx - gotta love torque!), Bilsteins (ironically) in place of the woeful interconnected DRC hydraulic anti-dive/wallow suspension and set of ceramic brakes. Again, utterly transformed.

I have been too far with cars before though - a perfectly road-able Impreza STi-V (personally imported from Tokyo in 98) morphed into a Nurburging focussed device, to the extent that it was completely rubbish on the road - too hard, too noisy, too baseball-cap-on-backwards - and I sold it on.

And whilst you never get back the money you spend on 'tuning' (although the Spider might be the exception, as there were only 60 in the UK 12 years ago,, so it's appreciating), remember how much you lose when selling to upgrade to the latest whizzbang version. My RS6 has depreciated by about 5x the investment made on tuning, so an upgrade to the new 570bhp V10 version is crazy money. Far better to make the current car faster (it's 300+kg lighter too, so a better PWR) and save the money.

Just my penneth worth. Which is why I am excited about playing around with my Panda 4x4!

Regards,

PhilG

 

[LeanMeanRacing]

I want a spec for me!

Hear, hear! Exactly what I said earlier

I have a Renaultsport Spider...

A very rare sight on the road or track. I know the numbers are low, but where have they all gone?

Just my penneth worth. Which is why I am excited about playing around with my Panda 4x4!

I will look forward to the Subaru boxer-engined Panda 4x4


The hope is that as we are using this forum, we are all petrolheads, regardless of our personal opinion on modifications

 

[PNL]

I have to agree with Van Diemen - I've never left a car standard in my life, other than a company Sierra 20 years ago - and it is all part of the petrolhead hobby. We're all car enthusiasts (which is fundamentally why we're here) and we're a dying breed I fear. Too many non-petrol people just wanting to get from A-to-B and willing to let the bureaucrats drive them into automobile mediocrity. These same people will tell you that if mods were that easy, then they'd do them at the factory - WRONG - they want a single spec for as much of the planets buyers as possible. I want a spec for me!

I have a Renaultsport Spider, which is a fantastic car, with a proper race-car designed chassis (lighter than a Panda), that was then compromised by Renault to get it on the road quickly and under all the EU regs. It was strangled to 150bhp and with rock-solid Bilstein suspension that was simply never configured correctly for the car. But with a full set of Ohlins suspension, induction, head, cams and exhaust fettling, it now has 185bhp (150 std), brakes to die-for and a chassis setup that breathes with the road and floats over everything. The car is transformed.

Did similar to the RS6 too - MTM engine and exhaust upgrade (now 540bhp/530torx - gotta love torque!), Bilsteins (ironically) in place of the woeful interconnected DRC hydraulic anti-dive/wallow suspension and set of ceramic brakes. Again, utterly transformed.

I have been too far with cars before though - a perfectly road-able Impreza STi-V (personally imported from Tokyo in 98) morphed into a Nurburging focussed device, to the extent that it was completely rubbish on the road - too hard, too noisy, too baseball-cap-on-backwards - and I sold it on.

And whilst you never get back the money you spend on 'tuning' (although the Spider might be the exception, as there were only 60 in the UK 12 years ago,, so it's appreciating), remember how much you lose when selling to upgrade to the latest whizzbang version. My RS6 has depreciated by about 5x the investment made on tuning, so an upgrade to the new 570bhp V10 version is crazy money. Far better to make the current car faster (it's 300+kg lighter too, so a better PWR) and save the money.

Just my penneth worth. Which is why I am excited about playing around with my Panda 4x4!

Regards,

PhilG

I have been modding cars since my teens but today the world needs a new way forward..time to bring on the electric car ..0 emissions..0 road fund and a big slap in the face for the oil producers..we still need oil for other product yes but I am sure a way around that could also be found..time for a better world and cleaner environment..you can still have your burn ups in your dodgems ..:devil:

 

[306maxi]

I have been too far with cars before though - a perfectly road-able Impreza STi-V (personally imported from Tokyo in 98) morphed into a Nurburging focussed device, to the extent that it was completely rubbish on the road - too hard, too noisy, too baseball-cap-on-backwards - and I sold it on.

What had you done to the Subaru to take it too far?

I ask purely because as you can see above I'm putting some bits onto my wifes Mk1 Legacy Turbo to restore a bit of the feel to what is a rather tired 16 year old car.

So far I've got the alloy droplinks above, polyurethane bushes for the steering rack, control arms and I'm going to replace the rack ends, tie rod ends and balljoints on the front and as many bushes as is practical on the back. I was thinking about getting thicker ARB's front and back but I'm just not sure tbh. I am planning though to stay with the standard 15" rims as I've found a rather nice set of gold speedlines which I'll be refurbing soon.

I know this might seem off topic and I guess it is a little but one persons experience with a Subaru, Skoda, Daihatsu etc etc is still somewhat relevant for Panda and Pretty Panda owners like ourselves

 

[Pandemonium]

Well like I said before I think the main point isnt against modifying any car just against the decision to modify some cars. After all I have heavily modified cars myself in the past and had a lot of fun doing it. Although you hardly ever (if ever) make any profit on a car after its been modified. A standard car is usually worth more than a car that has been modified to a certain owners taste.

Like I also said such major things as engine changes etc are a totally different ball game. If you have the time and money to undergo such a project you might as well start off with the cheapest Panda you can get. With that in mind you are actually better off buying an Active as it will be the cheapest. After all you will be removing a lot of the original parts so why pay more for stuff you are going to remove.

Any modifications to any car like poly suspension bushes and engine mounts, air filters and s/s exhausts are always a great idea if you are intending to keep a car. Thats not because of the performance advantages but because of the fact that the parts can last a hell of a lot longer than OE parts.

In these modern times there is a new game and a new goal. This game isnt about BHP,MPH or 0 to 60 its all about the MPG. With that in mind the Active and Dynamic are excellent in this regard. In particular the Active is a big 2 fingers to the bling bling generation and the cosumerist culture. Its the closest modern Panda that harks back to the original. With its basic bench seats and basic dash.

Everybody has their own opinions though and can do as they wish. For me modifying the performance and handling on an Active/Dynamic is not only pointless but ruins the car. Its like getting a Toyota Prius and adding a big bore exhaust, induction kit, body kit and big fat alloys.

I dont want my Active to stand out or have a big loud "look at me please!" exhaust. I also dont want to ruin what I regard as already perfect handling by lowering it. I dont want to stick on horrible plastic bits to it either because it already looks fantastic. What I do want is for it to save me money at the pumps and at the tax office. And with the addition of some nice tastefull small alloys and maybe some light window tints it will be totally perfect.

 

[R1NGA]

What had you done to the Subaru to take it too far?

I ask purely because as you can see above I'm putting some bits onto my wifes Mk1 Legacy Turbo to restore a bit of the feel to what is a rather tired 16 year old car.

So far I've got the alloy droplinks above, polyurethane bushes for the steering rack, control arms and I'm going to replace the rack ends, tie rod ends and balljoints on the front and as many bushes as is practical on the back. I was thinking about getting thicker ARB's front and back but I'm just not sure tbh. I am planning though to stay with the standard 15" rims as I've found a rather nice set of gold speedlines which I'll be refurbing soon.

I know this might seem off topic and I guess it is a little but one persons experience with a Subaru, Skoda, Daihatsu etc etc is still somewhat relevant for Panda and Pretty Panda owners like ourselves

It started with recoding of the speed limiter to convert it to 180mph from 180kmh. I was a confirmed Ring junky from about 1990 and made up to 6 trips a year to the place. So the requirements of the Ring drove the modifications to the car - grip, go, stop, stiffness. Upgraded brakes were fine on the road, but the over stiff (despite being adjustable) suspension, highly strung engine, Dunlop Formula-R road-legal track tyres (harsh, non-compliant and rubbish when cold), boomy exhaust and full weld-in rollcage were ultimately too much of a pain in the ar$e for the road. The fact that I'd had a proper big bike accident in 2003 (legs, shoulder, ribs, Ilizarov external frame etc etc) and my body was is bits, made the whole car no longer viable for me. The car attracted too much unwanted attention (both from the Police and Max Power brigade) and although still brilliant at the Ring, no longer floated my boat.

So now I am after the 'Surprising Stealth' approach to modified cars. Most non-petrol people think the RS6 is a dismal family estate and I want the Panda to remain looking 100% standard. I had a 5.7 Chevvy engined Range Rover in my youth, dressed up to look like a cooking diesel, complete with badges and everything. Funniest thing in the world to see the look on people's faces as it disappeared like a stabbed rat at traffic lights..... This was before anyone had invented the 'performance SUV' - Overfinch were innovators then.

For what it's worth, I also agree that the purity of an Active is to be embraced for what it is - my last Panda was a classic Mk1 which I did actually leave standard.

They say blokes never grow up - I'll be 47 this year and still get the same buzz out of cars now as I did when I was 17!!

PhilG

However, everything that you describe for your Subaru sounds perfectly fine!

 

[Van Diemen]

I ran my Elise against an RS6 and was astonished at how quick it was on track. Very quick in a straight line and pretty brisk around the corners. I am very ashamed to say I struggled to keep it at bay in the Elise. My only consolation was the owner said it was very expensive to maintain & run. Mind you, he then got an R8 and complained about how much it was loosing in depreciation!!!

 

[AskCy]

Its like getting a Toyota Prius and adding a big bore exhaust, induction kit, body kit and big fat alloys.

oh thats b*ggered that project up then !

 

[AskCy]

This topic is seriously lacking in photos... photos and more photos.. lets see some new struts, re-shaped front ends, striped out and roll cages put back, complete changes to geometry etc...

 

[Pandemonium]

oh thats b*ggered that project up then !

Well if you do go ahead with it make sure you sort the brakes out first.

 

[306maxi]

This topic is seriously lacking in photos... photos and more photos.. lets see some new struts, re-shaped front ends, striped out and roll cages put back, complete changes to geometry etc...

Why would you want to have a complete change of geometry? There's a company in Australia called Whiteline who make stuff like anti lift kits, roll centre and bump steer adjustment kits but this is very specialist stuff and it's very minor changes.

http://whitelineeucom.ozstaging.com/articles/KCA313%20ARTICLE.pdf

http://whiteline.com.au/images/articles/as_319_a.jpg

But for such products to become viable for the Panda and 500 platform there would have to be a big market for these bits.

 

[pandasam]

Well if you do go ahead with it make sure you sort the brakes out first.