General why modify a panda?

[ivantate]

PNL, I thought all exhaust manifolds were the same on the multipoint engines?
also, is not the bolt pattern for the inlet manifold the same?

anyway

it sounds like enjoying the car for what it is rather than doing anything serious to it.

Any ideas what Fiat have done to the engine to get 70ishbhp from it in the 500? I guess there as some serious mods for emissions too.

 

[ycming]

Have to disagree with the larger Tb for the P75 cam . It will move the power band slightly higher, let you rev all the way to 5,500 rpm instead of dieing at 3000 . The Tb will help tho, but is not a must.

I would say defo go for it, remember focus your money enhancing the driving experenices and not spend loads of money making it go faster! So i would just say lower it with a nice set of wheels will set the tone nicely!

I don't know why people keep saying buy something quicker to start with. If we all done that none of us would be here driving fiats and people usually comes on to this forum are people that love their fiat (well majority)

But let me make a brave assumptions that everyonbe that is saying that already have something that is faster?


Ming

 

[PNL]

PNL, I thought all exhaust manifolds were the same on the multipoint engines?

I said inlet mani not exhaust..larger throttle body I looked into and yes it will shift the power band to peak power but tricker told me it wasnt available anyway no point in adding one mod without the rest of the equation as far as I am concerned..866 cam/throttle body /exhaust mani and system and map..what goes in must come out in the best possible way..breathing in other words..

 

[HP]

You wouldn't turbo an 899 Cinquecento - you'd buy a Sporting. It makes sense to start with the biggest engine available.

The logical side of it though, a faster car is designed to go faster, will probably be cheaper and easier to insure than a modified car, will be easier to sell on and should already have brakes and suspension to cope. You never recoup your money when modifying.

That said, it is a lot of fun making cars go faster. Rinsed a few pounds myself doing it!

.....I don't know why people keep saying buy something quicker to start with. If we all done that none of us would be here driving fiats and people usually comes on to this forum are people that love their fiat (well majority)

But let me make a brave assumptions that everyonbe that is saying that already have something that is faster?


Ming

 

[ScoobyChris]

Of course the other way to make a car faster is to "mod" the driver - money well spent and transferable to every other car you drive

Chris

 

[trackdayqueen]

I don't know why people keep saying buy something quicker to start with. If we all done that none of us would be here driving fiats and people usually comes on to this forum are people that love their fiat (well majority)

But let me make a brave assumptions that everyonbe that is saying that already have something that is faster?

Ming

Seriously what is the point of tuning a car with a smaller engine in the range when you can just buy the one with the bigger engine that has all the bits you want on it in the first place?


I bought a 100hp after having an MJ for 9 months. I could have 'chipped' the MJ but I figured it would still be rubbish, so I did the sensible thing and bought the car that had what I wanted on it.

Yes one of my cars is a fair bit faster than a 1.2 panda, the other is a lot, lot faster.

Modifying, fun that it can be, is a mugs game.

/been there got the t-shirt.

Chris makes a good point about driver training. Money well spent.

 

[ivantate]

....Seriously what is the point of tuning a car with a smaller engine in the range when you can just buy the one with the bigger engine that has all the bits you want.....

You cannot just go out and buy a Panda 100 for £3300, and definately not a 20000miler.


Also PNL you definately mention changing the exhaust manifold in the original post.

 

[trackdayqueen]

You cannot just go out and buy a Panda 100 for £3300, and definately not a 20000miler.

Well wouldn't it be a better idea to put the money you had planned on modifying into a more expensive car that does what you want in the first place?

 

[Jai]

Modifying, fun that it can be, is a mugs game.

Well wouldn't it be a better idea to put the money you had planned on modifying into a more expensive car that does what you want in the first place?

not always, get the car you want, spend the time effort and money you want, to get the result you want.

more money doesn't always mean more ability..........ask the bloke who stacked a clio rental at kellenhard last monday when we were at the nurburgring, £10k was the bill...........

no car is perfect out of the box, including the type r you constantly carp on about, if so there would be no kits for almost every part of the suspension and braking system available to change. obviously there are people who despite spending more money, on a "better car", think it can be improved......

 

[trackdayqueen]

not always, get the car you want, spend the time effort and money you want, to get the result you want.

more money doesn't always mean more ability..........ask the bloke who stacked a clio rental at kellenhard last monday when we were at the nurburgring, £10k was the bill...........

no car is perfect out of the box, including the type r you constantly carp on about, if so there would be no kits for almost every part of the suspension and braking system available to change. obviously there are people who despite spending more money, on a "better car", think it can be improved......

I've been there and done it Jai. Twenty years experience of modifying has told me that it's a better idea to buy a car that does what you want. In my case the Type-R is perfect in that respect. Also you forget that changing suspension and the like doesn't always add up to a real improvement. People only think it might do, because it's stiffer etc, does not always mean better. Such things are way more complex than that.

This is because most modifiers and individuals do not have the resources of a motor manufacturer to lean on. Could I really hope to better honda's setup on my type-R. Not really, not if i'm realistic, despite having spent many years doing full geo setups on race elises/exiges etc. The effort was put in at the factory and it shows.

Of course more money doesn't mean more ability. I never said anything about ability.

 

[Jai]

so perhaps in this lads case, the car is perfect for what he wants to do to it? adapt, improvise, experiment........lessons not worth learning? just because you don't feel there is anything left to learn, he shouldn't?

as for ability, i was talking about the car, which as i see it, is just as important as that of the driver......a mismatch would be a terrible thing to behold.

 

[trackdayqueen]

so perhaps in this lads case, the car is perfect for what he wants to do to it? adapt, improvise, experiment........lessons not worth learning? just because you don't feel there is anything left to learn, he shouldn't?

as for ability, i was talking about the car, which as i see it, is just as important as that of the driver......a mismatch would be a terrible thing to behold.

Fair enough. Just passing on my experiences more than anything, so effectively just suggesting other ways to gain better performance etc.

 

[Grahamo]

lol, i didn't think that would kick up such a fuss. don't worry guys i'm not doing anything for the time being. nice to see points raised. i pushed my budget way to far buying a 1.2 dynamic and th insurance, i think a 100 (being still double the price) might have been a little out of the question. i do think some of you were missing the point slightly though i wasn't looking (at the time) to build a 100hp from a 1.2. i was disappointed that my old seicento would have done it in a race to 60 and wanted to do something about it.

 

[Fatster]

Why do people always try and put people off what they want to do...

Yes the point of a Panda is a small eco city car that saves you money so making it look better is in my eyes what its all about.

You only have to look at the old mini scene, if people didnt put their own ideas and styles into them it would have been boring and prob died out a long time ago. Funny, the Cooper owners looked down on the others who made their base models look good...

Seems the only members getting annoyed with members styling up their Actives and Dynamics are those who have spent a hell of a lot of money on a 100hp. If you can take a second hand active (in my case 15k 1.1 06, £2600) and spend £1k on styling it to get a sportier look and at the end have a cheaper to run more personalised car than a 100hp then why not???

99% of 100hp owners seem to keep them standard. Surley a tasty, custom looking Active is better than a standard cloned 100hp...ie insurance, running costs....

Sayin that id be pissed if I spent the money on a 100hp and was out looked by a Active.

Well thats my view.

Come on guys keep giving advice not put downs:slayer:

 

[Pandemonium]

Well this in an interesting post thats been dug up. I have also been into the modifying game and spent thousands in the past. So I will give my impression on this discussion.

Personally I think some mods are good to do no matter what car you have. Things like a staniless exhaust and performance filter last a hell of a lot longer than regular items. So fitting these items makes financial sense in the end.

However I seriously dont see the point in seriously modifying a car like the Active or the Dynamic. Oh and before any one starts I have an Active not a 100hp. I think adding items like the above as well as alloys or window tinting is fine. These items can make the car look better. However lowering the car or trying to make it look "sporty" or handle better is totally pointless.

You simply dont buy a car like the Active or Dynamic for the handling and performance. There is something intrinsically cool about an Active, its a Panda you buy to save money. Its very purpose is to be cheap to buy and cheap to run. If you start adding silly sports parts like spoilers and sports springs you have ruined the car. Not only that be you have also made yourself out to be fake. What you are basically saying is that I want a sporty Panda but cant afford a 100hp so I will try to make my budget Panda sporty. Its like buying a Ferrari and towing a caravan with it, or buying a people carrier and modifying it to take around the nurburgring. In other words you have totally lost the point of what the car is about. Oh and just because its something different doesnt make it good either. If you want a sporty Panda thats no problem theres the 100hp, thats what its there for. The Active and Dynamic are just not sports cars at all no matter what you do to them.

I also think the argument about how a 100hp is too expensive is total rubbish as well. I have just done a quick check on the Autotrader site and there are 2 100hp just under 5k with FSH. Yes you can get an Active or Dynamic for much less but then add the cost of the mods and you start getting close. Personally I would love a 100hp but at this moment in time I just cant afford one. So thats fine I bought an Active instead and started to save my money. After a couple of years or so I might buy a brand new 100hp or maybe an Abarth 500 im not sure yet. I will probably add some nice alloys to my Active and maybe some window tints to make it look better but thats it. Apart from that though I am keeping my active as original as possible and I am not going to "pretend" its anything more than it is.

I just want to add this little story as an example. Yesterday I went shopping at Morrisons and pulled up in the carpark. In front of me was the rear of an old dirty black Ford Focus. You could tell it was a regular model with a normal interior and wheels. However the owner had put on a huge exhaust and slapped a cheap RS badge on the back. Now what the hell was the point of that, who do they think they are kidding. What they are bascially saying is that I cant afford to buy an RS so I will try a lame attempt at barely copying one instead. All they have done though is ruin what is just a regular car and made themselves out to be a complete idiot. If the car was standard thats fine, thats the car you can afford and theres no shame in that. However dont try and make it something its not because you will just look like a fool. Its always said to be yourself and dont try to be anybody else, well the same can be said of cars.

I also disagree with some people saying that people shouldnt be so negative. This a forum and as a result its a place for people to share their views. I have been on loads of different car forums before and this point always comes up. Because sometimes people will post pictures of their car and not like what people have got to say for example. If you ask peoples opinions of something then dont be surprised if somebody says it looks crap. And if I dont like something and think it looks crap I will say so and I expect the same treatment.

 

[ycming]

Isn't it a bit ignorant to automatically assume that when people modifiy their 1.2 that they are trying to make their car like a 100HP ?

I got to say, i have done loads of things to my old 899 cinq. Was never going to be fast, but I have learnt so much along the way. I am now capable of servicing my own car and much more. So in a sense you can say I have gained knowledge from modifiying, am sure I have lost out in terms of money but what about all the money am saving now from servicing/repairing my own car?

For example am sure the cinq/sei were made to be a cheap economical city car. If people over there took the same view as this section that there is no point in modifing these type of cars. Then it would be a rather boring section just now.

Is when people make changes to their car is what keeps it interesting.

Ming

 

[Pandemonium]

Isn't it a bit ignorant to automatically assume that when people modifiy their 1.2 that they are trying to make their car like a 100HP ?

I got to say, i have done loads of things to my old 899 cinq. Was never going to be fast, but I have learnt so much along the way. I am now capable of servicing my own car and much more. So in a sense you can say I have gained knowledge from modifiying, am sure I have lost out in terms of money but what about all the money am saving now from servicing/repairing my own car?

For example am sure the cinq/sei were made to be a cheap economical city car. If people over there took the same view as this section that there is no point in modifing these type of cars. Then it would be a rather boring section just now.

Is when people make changes to their car is what keeps it interesting.

Ming

As I said it depends on what modifications you are talking about. If they are purely cosmetic like alloys or tints or fitting longer lasting service items then fair play. However lowering the suspension, chipping or adding bodykits then personally I say no.

As for the link to the 100hp then that is the sports model. So if somebody is trying to make there Active or Dynamic more sporty they will take many ideas or even parts from a 100hp. How many people will use a 100hp style bodykit, 100hp alloys or as mentioned in this post a 100hp spoiler. If you want a sporty looking Fiat Panda with bigger alloys, a bodykit, sports suspension and handling you have the Fiat Panda 100hp. How many home made modified cars look better than the manufacturers own sports model of the same car? Now before you go rushing off to find pictures I am sure there a few but its very rare.

My point is the entire Fiat Panda range is totally and utterly fantastic in my eyes but for different reasons. And there is a car for every purpose and they have all have their own merits. The Active and Dynamics are fantastic because they are cheap to buy and run. The 4x4 and Cross are fantastic little off roaders. And the 100hp is a fantastic fun little hot hatch.

The Active and Dynamic are not crap because they are cheap, they are good because of it. But if you take that away then they are neither as cheap to run as a standard Active/Dynamic nor as good as a 100hp. If you want a sporty Panda you are better starting at the top with a 100hp. It makes more sense to start at the top and try to get higher than starting at the bottom and just trying to get to the top in the first place.

I would also like to add that just because my car is a standard Active it isnt boring. Personally I think it looks great and drives even better even though its completely original. It could do with better alloys and maybe darker windows but thats it. And those suttle differences in different wheels will give you the individuality you are looking for.

 

[AskCy]

My brother knew someone who had an old Bedford HA van (going back some years ago) (looks like this http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/photos-cars/29.jpg )

the original engine was dying and he had to use easy start everytime it was a little cold or damp... so he decided to put another engine in... he could have put the same sort back... but he decided to modify it... dropped a rover V8 3.5 litre in it.. wasn't the orginal idea of the little van.. but it wasn't half fun... If he had bought a Jag Etype people would have known it was fast and kept away.. instead he had every boy racer pull up at the side of him at the lights and had endless fun just keeping them behind.. and then shooting off into the distance.... ...

IF you bought the 100hp (and lets face it , it wasn't much more the than the active by the time I'd added a decent colour, extra seatbelt etc..) people would know its fast.... why not shock them with your base line panda that makes them think twice about the little thing...?

From my point of view, being a more hands on type of person, I'd get more satisfaction of making a basic slow car go like stink, than just buying a faster car (anyone can buy a faster car... same on the race track.. just buy a faster car and you can keep up with those with more skill... those skilled on the race track wouldn't say I'm not fast enough lets get a faster car, they would want to push their own limits and get better, proving themselves... If I found I could bend this, push that, plug my lappy into that bit, alter this and get 30bhp more out a car, I'd have proved myself as someone who is skilled ... someone who knows something about cars... etc..)

its like telling someone who goes off roading in 4x4's as they stuggle with all four wheels slipping in the mud up the side of some boggy hill "just drive round it mate, there is a road over there, buy yourself a normal car and use the road"...

 

[306maxi]

Why do people always try and put people off what they want to do...

Yes the point of a Panda is a small eco city car that saves you money so making it look better is in my eyes what its all about.

You only have to look at the old mini scene, if people didnt put their own ideas and styles into them it would have been boring and prob died out a long time ago. Funny, the Cooper owners looked down on the others who made their base models look good...

Seems the only members getting annoyed with members styling up their Actives and Dynamics are those who have spent a hell of a lot of money on a 100hp. If you can take a second hand active (in my case 15k 1.1 06, £2600) and spend £1k on styling it to get a sportier look and at the end have a cheaper to run more personalised car than a 100hp then why not???

99% of 100hp owners seem to keep them standard. Surley a tasty, custom looking Active is better than a standard cloned 100hp...ie insurance, running costs....

Sayin that id be pissed if I spent the money on a 100hp and was out looked by a Active.

Well thats my view.

Come on guys keep giving advice not put downs:slayer:

No one's giving "put downs"

No one here gets "annoyed" at people modifying their cars. All people are doing is saying that people could get more performance from a standard 100hp, better resale value from a 100hp and more coherant styling from a 100hp and an overall cheaper package from.... you guessed it.... a 100hp!

Funny you should mention 100hp owners being against modifying actives and dynamics, I'm a 500 owner and tbh I don't see the point either. Sure a set of wheels will make the car look a bit better but doing anything more than that on a 1.1 or 1.2 is a waste IMHO especially considering that people don't generally keep their cars that long.

No 100hp is going to get oulooked (is there such a word?) by an active anyway, 99.999% of aftermarket bodykits look like poop.

 

[306maxi]

My brother knew someone who had an old Bedford HA van (going back some years ago) (looks like this http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/photos-cars/29.jpg )

the original engine was dying and he had to use easy start everytime it was a little cold or damp... so he decided to put another engine in... he could have put the same sort back... but he decided to modify it... dropped a rover V8 3.5 litre in it.. wasn't the orginal idea of the little van.. but it wasn't half fun... If he had bought a Jag Etype people would have known it was fast and kept away.. instead he had every boy racer pull up at the side of him at the lights and had endless fun just keeping them behind.. and then shooting off into the distance.... ...

See that sort of stuff is actually interesting. I bet your brothers friend did a proper job of it and made something which appeals to more than just those people who want to be indavijuwal by putting Ripspeed crap on their car just so it doesn't look standard.