why are Fiat bottom of the 2009 JD Power Survey?

[colin79666]

It's a shame we can't see the results broken down into dealerships.
I'm sure Fiat would be further up if Evans Halshaw and Arnold Clark weren't included*!

*Not necessarily based on my own experiences but of the general feeling on the forums and elsewhere.

 

[T14086]

Isn't that the promise that Fiat MD Andrew Humberstone made, to visit ALL Fiat dealerships in the UK.

Did he?

I'm sure Fiat would be further up if Evans Halshaw and Arnold Clark weren't included*!

Fiat will never get rid of the large dealer chains, they sell too many cars & do things there own way despite what Fiat say. Love/hate relationship?

 

[fenton_jd]

TJ Vickers gave me a lift to work when no courtesy car was available. Was a 5 minute walk away though.

 

[T14086]

Not very enviromental that

 

[The Beard]

In 2005, I went into a FIAT dealership called Priory in Manchester looking specifically for a Panda MJ. The salesman was very helpful. I told him exactly what I was looking for: A Panda MJ in metallic light blue with alloys (& 165 tyres) and a rubbing strip as I thought the flanks looked a bit vulnerable without them.

He happened to have one in stock, but as the car wasn't due to be launched for another week or so he wasn't allowed to show it to anyone. Personally I thought that was a bit crass, as physically it was no different than a 1.2 Dynamic, but hey ho.

He eventually persuaded the Sales Manager to let me have a drive and basically do with it what I wanted. Half an hour and 20 miles later I was signing on the dotted line. On the 1st of March I went in to pick it up. The only thing lacking was the rubbing strip which I'd been warned might take a while. It went in a fortnight later to have this fitted and I was leant a Punto MJ while this was done.

At 12 months and 12K miles it went in to the same place for its service. When I collected it they gave me a price that was £35 more than I'd been quoted. When I queried it, the Receptionist said that if that was the case she would stand by the quote. All round good service from purchase to service.

When I went to book it in for its 2nd service at 2 years, they'd shut up shop and closed down. So I rang Stoneacre in Hyde near where I live to the East of Manchester. Unfortunately they couldn't do it for about 2 weeks and the day before the service it started making a slight grinding noise when I braked. As I'd just driven off from home where it had been parked up for a couple of days
I thought it was a bit of surface rust on the discs. Unfortunately it had worn the pads down on one side to the rivets. Alas, no brake wear warning light. Neither the dealer nor FIAT would have any truck with my claims that the wear was premature and that it shouldn't have been wearing on one side more than the other. So I had to fork out for new discs and pads.

In the meantime, we had chopped Mrs. Beard's Punto in for a 12 month Stilo with 1,000 miles on the clock. I took my Panda into Stoneacre to have a grinding noise from the clutch investigated. As I reversed up a slope outside the workshop there were 2 young cleaning lads standing nearby. Both of them heard the noise. One of their top Technicians got in the car with me and did everything he could to provoke it into making the "noise." Which it did. The only problem was that even as it was making the "noise", he said he couldn't hear anything. Either he was a liar, or he was deaf. In which case, what was he doing investigating a noise? I stormed off in a huff.

A couple of months later, we were back with Mrs.Beard's Stilo making a squeaking noise from the back end. No fault found. It still makes the noise today.

As they were both out of warranty within a month of each other, both the Panda and Stilo went into a non-franchised dealer, who, while not being much cheaper than Stoneacre seemed to be more professional. John Delaney in Stockport for anyone interested.

To date though, the Stilo is just over 4 years old and has done 32,000 miles. In total it has had 2 new tyres and the fan belt is just starting to squeak on start up and the door strap on the driver's side broke. Otherwise that's it.

The Panda is a month younger and has done 41,000 miles and has had new pads and discs, 2 new wiper blades and a new indicator bulb that was losing its orangeness.

Overall, not bad for crap cars. In April, the Panda was serviced at Stoneacre, but only because they wrote to me and offered such a good deal that I couldn't say no. They did however, issue an advisory on the MOT that one of the front bushes was going which tallied with a clunking noise I could here going over bumps. I got my local freindly neighbourhood non-franchise dealer to take a look and he couldn't find anything except for loose baffles in the back box, but said it wasn't that which was causing the noise.

Will we replace them with FIATs? Yes. If only we could find a dealer that was as good as Priory.

 

[grimwau]

Did he?

Only if you believe what you read in the press! Can only copy/paste the details below as a link to the site will only let subscribed members view the page.



INTERVIEW: Andrew Humberstone, Managing Director of Fiat UK

9 July 2008 | Source: just-auto.com editorial team


Beware the man in shorts or tracksuit who walks into the dealer showroom on Saturday morning - it might be the boss.
Six months into his job as managing director at Fiat UK, Andrew Humberstone is making a point of visiting all his 164 dealers - either officially or unofficially.
"Since coming into the job, I have wanted to avoid the filters and get first hand information," he said. "I am personally visiting the network, and have been to 85 percent so far. I have had 17 years experience in the retail sector. I like to touch and feel how the business is being run.
"We have to listen to our customers and dealers. The customer satisfaction surveys tell us we have problems with our network and we are addressing this."
So far this year, 16 dealers have left the Fiat network and 17 new ones have joined. The brand now has 164 dealers in the UK and the plan is to increase this to 200 by 2010. Humberstone said: "When I visit the dealers, I don't just want to know how they are getting on now. I want to know from each of them how they plan to make money over the next five years. They need to have a clear direction for their business."

 

[Tris Harris]

My nearest dealer is Stoneacre Doncaster, they are very poor in my opinion.

1) Took 3 visits (and 3 days annual leave from work) to fix rattling seatbelt holders. The passenger one is now fine but the drivers one is sometimes difficult to put the belt into the holster, i dont want to take it back and risk them screwing it up again. However, they did give me some discount in the parts department for messing me around, but this meant that I needed to buy something!

2) When i was first looking for my GP, the salesman really didnt want to know, I walked in and I was told that the used cars are outside. :tosser: This is partially the reason i didnt buy my car from this dealership... and when they gave me a price, they really did refuse to budge on this figure, whereas the same car at another dealership I haggled in the same way ad got a lot of discount!

3) Promising to ring me back and never doing it! Several occasions when i have been promised to be called back and i have had to ring back either several hours later or the next day. Very poor customer service.

4) When it came to first service time, they tried to rip me off and say it would be £250... I argued the car had only done 10,000 miles and there was no way it would cost this much. I proceeded to ring round other dealers and got it for £125. Stoneacre rang me the week before to tell me they had "pre-booked" my car in for a service as it was due and the price would be £250, i told them that i had found a better price, and asked if they could match it... they said no, but we can do it for £150. How did they all of a sudden manage to knock £100 off instantly? I told them that I still wouldnt be using them and was told that if i used the other dealership (FIAT Picadilly) then it would invalidate my warranty. Idiots.

5) They announced after some warranty work that they would carry out a valet of the car for my trouble, I thanked them, but requested that they didnt do this as I didnt really want them touching my paintwork!! I went early to pick it up as I came home early, walk onto the forecourt and there my car is, being attacked by a dirty sponge and wash leather. I honestly nearly cried. The service manager declared they had been told not to clean it, and had gone ahead and done it by mistake. I now have a few swirls over my paintwork which i cant prove were not there before, so I didnt have a leg to stand on when arguing the fact with them!

I will NEVER take my car back there again, they imo, are giving FIAT a bad name.

I'm now using Fiat Picadilly and they in fairness to them are a much better dealership as a whole, good customer service and all work seems to be carried out well from what i can tell (well, it actually comes back fixed from them anyway ). They even managed to understand the "please dont clean my car" request... even if i did get a funny look from the reception staff

 

[sledge]

Its took me 3 trips to my dealer for them to come to the conclusion a/the turrest bushes has/have failed, to tell me they were not covered by the 3rd year warranty, and to give me a quote of about £250 and a 9 working day wait before they could "fit me in".
I ended up having them replaced by my local independant the next day, while I waited, for a little over £110. Much as I would like to support my local dealer, they dont do themselves any favours. I am still waiting for a reply to my letter asking them how they can justify a price of £515 for a second service on a 1.2 GP.

 

[T14086]

Beware the man in shorts or tracksuit who walks into the dealer showroom on Saturday morning - it might be the boss.

Perhaps by asking the people that actually do the work will help more with customer care than planning with managers how to make money. Good service will result in a returning customer,end off.

Its took me 3 trips to my dealer for them to come to the conclusion a/the turrest bushes has/have failed, to tell me they were not covered by the 3rd year warranty, and to give me a quote of about £250 and a 9 working day wait before they could "fit me in".
I ended up having them replaced by my local independant the next day, while I waited, for a little over £110. Much as I would like to support my local dealer, they dont do themselves any favours. I am still waiting for a reply to my letter asking them how they can justify a price of £515 for a second service on a 1.2 GP.

If you mean top strut mounts they are covered under 3rd year.

 

[The Beard]

By an odd coincidence, I received a phone call from a chap at FIAT enquiring as to how I enjoyed my "experience" of having my car serviced at Stoneacre in Hyde. As I was just about to deal with a Human Remains at one of the Cargo "sheds" he offered to ring back, which he did.

Although I was reasonably happy with this last service, he gave me the opportunity to add anything I liked; so I did.

I also told him about this Forum and suggested he logged on and had a look at what owners were saying about FIAT, their products and dealers. Whether he will or not is another matter.

 

[sledge]

If you mean top strut mounts they are covered under 3rd year.

T?....I agree. I have read the warranty book cover to cover and from the T&Cs as far as I can understand the bushes/mounts are covered, but the question is.......why has my dealer told me they are not and more to the point why should I have to argue that they are? As a result of this I have taken the matter up with Fiat customer services, they are investigating and as you can probably guess I wont let it drop until I get the money and my costs back. Like I said, they do themselves no favours, more nails in their coffin....unfortunately

 

[Mr Wild]

I think it's the poor quality of some of the parts -- it's almost as if they're designed to fail. In the 6 years I've owned my mark II, i've had to put a multitude of new parts on it. The most common? The wishbones. They have a special rubber bush on the rear mount which has limited give on it, the other two mounts are designed to swivel which allows a lot of leverage force to be placed on that rear special bush, and since the bush is moulded into the wishbone, when it fails the whole arm has to be replaced!

When some ****er tries to break into your car and destroys a lock, you can't just have the lock replaced, oh no, you're punished for buying Fiat and have to have the entire lot done at a cost of over £300. So that next week someone else can come and have another go -- where's the sense in that?

The juddering syndrome which 'could be caused by any number of problems'.

If I couldn't have done these repairs myself, would hate to think how much the car would have cost me. I have no idea what the reliability of the new cars are, but given that the old ones are cheap and nasty I would personally avoid Fiat in the future.

 

[Tris Harris]

locks are same on most cars now? where you have to replace the whole lot due to the engine immboliser?

newer FIAT's are much better, otherwise they wouldnt even consider offering a 5 year warranty on them!

 

[colin79666]

newer FIAT's are much better, otherwise they wouldnt even consider offering a 5 year warranty on them!

1. They have stopped that on the Grande Punto now by all accounts.
2. 2 years manufacturers and 3 years warranty isn't exactly great is it? Not when the dealer part doesn't cover a large percentage of issues which really should last the life of the car.

 

[Tris Harris]

Bravo is though, does the 500 have it aswell? They are the newest FIAT's in fairness, the GP came out over 3 years ago now.

 

[Ffoxy]

For me the JDPower survey should break out by model type, it would appear that in the GP range there is some great unrest about reliability with 1.2 & 1.4 specific components, gearboxes, lack of power to mention just 2.

My experience with the 1.9 has been solid in terms of engine, gearbox and transmission, obviously trim issues will be similar. Either I have been very lucky or my use of the car fits the purpose, in other words as they are cheap they get neglected / abused.

But the bottom line is definitely dealer related, whether it be Tech skills, parts stock holding (or not) setting expectations incorrectly, cost of Servicing, lack of courtesy cars etc. These are the issues most Fiat owners regularl take issue with that could be fixed by the dealer.

Fiat do need to address issues with components like door locks, glove-box latches, iffy wheel protection like peeling paint & lacqeur etc, the things that dont stop the car but cause repeated visits to dealers where the dealer experience comes back to haunt them as expressed above. It doesnt help when a new 5 year warranty suddenly goes back to 3 years, all costs money though... and Fiat owners buy because they are cheap.

 

[Tris Harris]

but then again you have a lot of problems with the 1.9m-jet lump aswelll, even those without remaps! thats leaves you with the starjet and the t-jet!

 

[Ffoxy]

but then again you have a lot of problems with the 1.9m-jet lump aswelll, even those without remaps! thats leaves you with the starjet and the t-jet!

Nah... we just see faults on here, usually EGR related or dodgy turbo batch, thats it really in any volume with the MJet, dont forget the old JTD lump its based on is well tested. Thousands have no problems at all, I make a point of asking fellow MJet owners whenever I can, most know nothing at all about faullts or re-maps, and never heard of the Fiat Forum as they never needed help.

 

[Ulpian]

The fact that nobody seems how long the warranty lasts on any model from one year to the next hardly points to good Fiat communication.

 

[T14086]

T?....I agree. I have read the warranty book cover to cover and from the T&Cs as far as I can understand the bushes/mounts are covered, but the question is.......why has my dealer told me they are not and more to the point why should I have to argue that they are?

Each case is individual so perhaps the garage had a genuine 'argument', I can only go by my past experiences.

I think it's the poor quality of some of the parts -- it's almost as if they're designed to fail. In the 6 years I've owned my mark II, i've had to put a multitude of new parts on it. The most common? The wishbones. They have a special rubber bush on the rear mount which has limited give on it, the other two mounts are designed to swivel which allows a lot of leverage force to be placed on that rear special bush, and since the bush is moulded into the wishbone, when it fails the whole arm has to be replaced!

When some ****er tries to break into your car and destroys a lock, you can't just have the lock replaced, oh no, you're punished for buying Fiat and have to have the entire lot done at a cost of over £300. So that next week someone else can come and have another go -- where's the sense in that?

The juddering syndrome which 'could be caused by any number of problems'.

If I couldn't have done these repairs myself, would hate to think how much the car would have cost me. I have no idea what the reliability of the new cars are, but given that the old ones are cheap and nasty I would personally avoid Fiat in the future.

My Mk2 hasn't had a penny (mine or Fiats) spent on it in 6 years (80K), it is alo unfair to mention locks/wishbones because this is not solely down to Fiats but all manufactures. If you had a citroen,vauxhall,ford,peugeot you would no doubt be saying these things on a different forum.

I was also a 'dis-believer' (I accepted the usual pub talk about them) in Fiats until I started working on them but have now done a 180o turnaround, yes they have weak points but no more/less than similar cars.

gearboxes

I dont think Fiat have a 'gearbox' problem, considering the sheer volume of cars sold the amount of gearboxes failing is well under the 'probability' level.

But the bottom line is definitely dealer related, whether it be Tech skills, parts stock holding (or not) setting expectations incorrectly, cost of Servicing, lack of courtesy cars etc. These are the issues most Fiat owners regularl take issue with that could be fixed by the dealer.

On the other side of the coin, there is little money to be made from running a Fiat franchise which is why so many are doubled up with another make. Training, parts stock, tooling, courtesy cars are a huge expense.