why are Fiat bottom of the 2009 JD Power Survey?

[Ffoxy]

Each case is individual so perhaps the garage had a genuine 'argument', I can only go by my past experiences.



My Mk2 hasn't had a penny (mine or Fiats) spent on it in 6 years (80K), it is alo unfair to mention locks/wishbones because this is not solely down to Fiats but all manufactures. If you had a citroen,vauxhall,ford,peugeot you would no doubt be saying these things on a different forum.

I was also a 'dis-believer' (I accepted the usual pub talk about them) in Fiats until I started working on them but have now done a 180o turnaround, yes they have weak points but no more/less than similar cars.



I dont think Fiat have a 'gearbox' problem, considering the sheer volume of cars sold the amount of gearboxes failing is well under the 'probability' level.



On the other side of the coin, there is little money to be made from running a Fiat franchise which is why so many are doubled up with another make. Training, parts stock, tooling, courtesy cars are a huge expense.[/QUOTE]

Good points T but dealers should take those issues up with Fiat or drop the Fiat dealership, that would get Fiats attention!

 

[T14086]

Possibly but with the success of Fiat over the last 5 years odd & one of the few that seem to be 'coping' with the recession (aswell as having some great new technology) dropping Fiat could be a bad move.

 

[Scorg]

I think I have an idea on why Fiat sit at the bottom of the table, after having taken the Panda into Arnold Clark (And it really does feel like they are the only option where I am) and if they dont find a fault or if the fault is found and is not covered under the third year warrenty they will charge you £55 for a "diag check" on the car.

When dealing with a front suspension failure saying such things does feel quite abrasive.
Do other brands dealers do such things? And if so is it an Arnold Clark thing or beyond that.

 

[Ffoxy]

I think I have an idea on why Fiat sit at the bottom of the table, after having taken the Panda into Arnold Clark (And it really does feel like they are the only option where I am) and if they dont find a fault or if the fault is found and is not covered under the third year warrenty they will charge you £55 for a "diag check" on the car.

When dealing with a front suspension failure saying such things does feel quite abrasive.
Do other brands dealers do such things? And if so is it an Arnold Clark thing or beyond that.

T will respond to that better than I but a "diags check" is a session on Examiner, and that bit of kit is expensive to buy and Fiat insist on it being used.
Thats what the dealers will tell you, I have no idea on running costs etc but the charge for the Examiner check will vary from dealer to dealer. TBH I dont know what Examiner would see regarding a suspension fault, it reads data from sensors and the ECU log.

 

[Scorg]

Cheers for that Ffoxy. If that's what it is,it just wasn't explained very well and somewhat felt like a scare tactic.
Anyhow, suspension fault now confirmed at least, so all is good there, only thing is we have to take it back again next week to get this resolved.
But I think that is consistant with most brands dealers.

 

[Ffoxy]

Cheers for that Ffoxy. If that's what it is,it just wasn't explained very well and somewhat felt like a scare tactic.
Anyhow, suspension fault now confirmed at least, so all is good there, only thing is we have to take it back again next week to get this resolved.
But I think that is consistant with most brands dealers.

Yes sadly, due to financial circumstances car dealers like all / most other industries are running on a tightened budget with less staff than is ideal.

Out of curiosity, what do they think is wrong with the suspension, have they said...?

 

[Scorg]

They said the suspension struts were leaking on both front left and right. We alreadt knew about the left as it was bouncing like a trampaline but didnt think the right side was effected.
Glad it is in a way, means they wont just replace one but do both.

 

[MikeSalt]

One problem is that Fiats are typically inexpensive cars, yet people expect a £7000 Panda to have the fit and finish of a £50,000 Lexus. If you exclusively sell premium cars, it is much easier to get a good JD Power result.

As for the dealers, I used to always think they were incompetent, always finding the wrong part to give me. After a while though, they took to showing me the screen and letting me interact with choosing the correct part. It turns out that the parts databases and diagrams are quite often just wrong, so the dealers don't stand a chance with such poor support from Fiat UK.

 

[grimwau]

They said the suspension struts were leaking on both front left and right. We alreadt knew about the left as it was bouncing like a trampaline but didnt think the right side was effected.
Glad it is in a way, means they wont just replace one but do both.

Interesting point, if you were paying to have one replaced at a garage they would inform you (quite correctly) that in the interest of safety, shock absorbers/struts should always be fitted in pairs.

I wonder if, when it comes to warranty work, they would fit both sides even if only one side was faulty.

 

[MikeSalt]

There is another reason as well. If you buy a £50,000 car, and it turns out to be a sack of ****e, out of embarrassment, you may not fully report everything that has gone wrong with it.

 

[Ffoxy]

There is another reason as well. If you buy a £50,000 car, and it turns out to be a sack of ****e, out of embarrassment, you may not fully report everything that has gone wrong with it.

Completely agree with both your last 2 Posts Mike...

 

[Ffoxy]

They said the suspension struts were leaking on both front left and right. We alreadt knew about the left as it was bouncing like a trampaline but didnt think the right side was effected.
Glad it is in a way, means they wont just replace one but do both.

Wow... time for a serious inspection of my car then before the dealer Warranty expires in September

 

[Scorg]

Interesting point, if you were paying to have one replaced at a garage they would inform you (quite correctly) that in the interest of safety, shock absorbers/struts should always be fitted in pairs.

I wonder if, when it comes to warranty work, they would fit both sides even if only one side was faulty.

From the impression ive gotten from other members here, when they had one fail, it was only the failed one that was replaced. Think it was someone with a Panda 100HP that had that happen.

But I do agree, I was told that when I had one fail on my Brava, it was out withwarrenty and handled by an independent so I followed their advice.

Wow... time for a serious inspection of my car then before the dealer Warranty expires in September

Lol, yes, do it, give it a check!
Better safe then sorry on this one.

 

[Ashtony]

Fiat should not be at the bottom the list, thats for sure.

 

[sledge]

Why?

 

[Schwenck]

Why?

The resulting silence is deafening, isn't it?

Same old same old...

 

[The Beard]

A mate of mine has a Skoda Fabia with the 1.2 3-cylinder engine. It's been pretty good and with 70K on the clock feels more solid than my Panda with 42K. However he has changed the shocks whereas I think mine probably need to have them changed.

Having said that, the dash and seats wouldn't really entice you into buying one, the interior is far less appealing than the Panda Dynamic.

What was a surprise to me though, is that in the 4 years he's owned it, he's replaced a Lambda Probe every year. Somehow, having to replace the same component every year doesn't seem to crop up in the JD Power survey.

I also wonder who takes part in these surveys. I filled out one last year re: the Panda but missed the latest one. My Dad, on the other hand, has filled it out every year since 2005. Oddly enough, that was when he bought his first new Toyota; a Corolla. Unfortunately due to both him and my Mum having recently had knee replacement ops., they started looking for an automatic that was easier to get into.

The short list included a Merc A-Class, Corolla Verso and a Zafira. He chose the Verso. The point about the JD Power survey was that since he retired, his annual mileage has been less than 5,000 miles, in fact closer to 3,000. I can't help wonder how many Toyota owners who reply to Power are like my Old Man because, even with the worst car in the world, there's not much that can go wrong in 12K in 4 years.

I'd also question how much performance satisfies older drivers. By his own admission, he doesn't expect as much from cars now as he did in the early '70s when he had a Vauxhall VX 4/90 followed by a 3.3 litre Ventora.

 

[tarbyonline]

Regarding dealers. When i went to view Lucia at my local main fiat dealer she had a nasty stain on the rear seat and generally was a bit grubby inside as it had only been valeted to "Sight" according to the saleswoman. The front tires were also just above the legal minimum, the rears wern't far off. The sales woman told me this would be sorted out prior to the car changing hands. When i received the car (it was delivered to the house when i was at work as I had yet to pass my test) some attempt had obviously been made at cleaning her but the stain was still there (albeit not as prominent) and there was still dirt in the crevices etc in the car. There was also still a lot of wax that hadn't been buffed off on the exterior. Tires wise the rears were left as is, the fronts were replaced with the cheapest ATS would provide them with which turned out to be unsuitable (a trip to the same ATS branch after getting my rears replaced by a local garage on the way back from the dealer to get my alignment checked as they could not determine what the steering issue I was having was caused by confirmed this as i was told to switch my tires round due to the rear replacements i bought at my own expense (£23 each fitted) were apparently a much better tyre and this could cure the steering issue - it did and the handling and grip are much improved!).

In comparison, I used to do a bit of work for a VW dealer prepping used cars. A car would not of even got on to the forcourt until it had been MACHINE polished, fully valeted and serviced and tires had to have at least half their tread intact (this was part of a pre sales inspection which was done). Where as I think the car itself is fantastic, the corner cutting by the dealer could put me off buying another fiat when the time comes. The fact that they could not even ensure the wax residue was buffed off just screams carelessness. Luckily I had the skills and knowledge to do a proper job of the valet, some of the most obvious issues were fixed in seconds! My brother will be buying his first car soon and where as I would love him to get a fiat (he really likes the 500, but is tempted to get a grande punto as he may have to travel in his job), I am inclined to point him in the direction of a different or non-fiat franchised dealer. Where as the sales staff have been great, and the service staff always seemed polite and courteous there does still seem to be some quality control lacking.

 

[T14086]

With all due respect the car you got was secondhand (judging from your post), sometimes people forget that the car has been used & there will be marks, scratches etc. As for the tyres that decision is down to one man who is constantly trying to find ways to reduce spending/increase profits especially in these hard times. 3mm is generally the accepted absolute minimum (personally I think it should be 5) but a good set of tyres would cost around £160-180 & with profit margins so tight this simply cant be done.

I understand what your saying (and agree with you) but a quick look on the other side of the fence might help you understand the motor trade abit more. Also there will be more profit margin in a VW compared to a Fiat.

 

[tarbyonline]

With all due respect the car you got was secondhand (judging from your post), sometimes people forget that the car has been used & there will be marks, scratches etc. As for the tyres that decision is down to one man who is constantly trying to find ways to reduce spending/increase profits especially in these hard times. 3mm is generally the accepted absolute minimum (personally I think it should be 5) but a good set of tyres would cost around £160-180 & with profit margins so tight this simply cant be done.

I understand what your saying (and agree with you) but a quick look on the other side of the fence might help you understand the motor trade abit more. Also there will be more profit margin in a VW compared to a Fiat.

I know what you are saying but how long would it have took someone to check that residue etc had been removed. Most of the jobs i did myself took very little time indeed (it took 3 days for the car to be prepared by the dealer). I just think it creates a very bad impression of the dealer (who have otherwise been faultless and does enjoy a good reputation) and the marque for someone who doesn't know better. I wasnt expecting an immaculate car (in fact i like the little scuffs and scrapes - it gives her character), just one that had been cleaned! This is the type of thing fiat need to get right (quality control)if they are to change peoples perceptions of the brand (Fix It Again Tomorrow). Afterall, this is what seems to be what influences these surveys most rather than actual reliability. You are right in saying that margins at other brands are higher but a lot of this is to do with the fact that people know the type of service they are getting. As a footnote, a family member recently bought a second hand Hyundai from one of their main dealers. The car quite literraly was ready to go on the forecourt and was spotless inside and out. It also was older than my car and had a higher mileage. If Hyundai can do it on the type of margins they operate on considering the depreciation of their vehicles then why cant Fiat? What type of impression does it leave with people if they go to view a car and it isnt even cleaned properly. You wouldn't do it if you were a private seller so why are dealers. I am talking about cleaning grime on the interior plastics, etc here btw not a full detail!!!!!!

The 500 is a great opportunity for Fiat as a lot of people are interested in buying one who otherwise wouldnt touch a Fiat due to its cheeky looks (i.e. looks are making people forget their perceptions of the brand) and desirability to younger drivers (who afterall could potentially be buying Fiats for years to come). Modern cars for the most part are very reliable, no matter what the brand. The difference comes in the aftersales service. Lets hope Fiat have cleaned up their act - afterall, I know word of mouth was a big factor in my buying decision and I very nearly didnt get a Fiat due to this.

I am glad i did go for the Fiat and I am delighted with my purchase, i am simply saying that by taking an extra few minutes here and there then the dealers can go a long way to impoving the companys reputation and also their own sales!