What's made you grumpy today?

[StevenRB45]

Update on my TPMS woes. Reversed out onto our wee road and paused for a moment to reset the system (all tyres correctly pressured) - I did this so the car would be moving forward whilst it registered the new rotational values. The warning light went out, hurrah! Drove out to the Pizza Express on the edge of town (half way meeting point for us and the boys with their families) Happily no light showing! Unfortunately wee our grandaughter was sick half way through the meal (impressed us all by making it to the loos so no mess to clean up, well done girl!) so, looking white as a sheet, she went home with her mum in their car leaving me to drive my son and his wee lad back out to their house in Midlothian when we'd all finished. Foul weather with rain sleet and snow so the car is now absolutely filthy again and it's due at the garage tomorrow morning at 08.00hrs for MOT. Weather tomorrow is forecast to be fine so I'm resolved to get up at first light and, if it's dry, I'll give it a quick hose down and wipe off with my noodle mit. Very pleased to be able to report the TPMS light is behaving itself. I'm still puzzled as to why it lit up though - please just stay off until after the MOT tomorrow. I'm not actually sure if it would fail for showing the tyre pressure light?

The slightly different diameters do seem to annoy the TPMS system on the Citroën.

There's only 0.5mm between the older rear and the new rear and the damn thing still went off after a motorway section 4 days after the tyres had been switched and pressures checked and reset.

If anything I wonder if the new one was slightly stiffer than the older one as after 3 false pressure warnings over about the first 100 miles it's not recurred.

If you reset the system before you go in it's unlikely to do anything during the mot itself, it won't have had time to make it's measurements etc.

 

[The Panda Nut]

PUTIN behaving akin to Hitler.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The slightly different diameters do seem to annoy the TPMS system on the Citroën.

There's only 0.5mm between the older rear and the new rear and the damn thing still went off after a motorway section 4 days after the tyres had been switched and pressures checked and reset.

If anything I wonder if the new one was slightly stiffer than the older one as after 3 false pressure warnings over about the first 100 miles it's not recurred.

If you reset the system before you go in it's unlikely to do anything during the mot itself, it won't have had time to make it's measurements etc.

Thanks Steven, that's interesting. I got up really early this morning, just as daylight was showing, intending to give the car a wash. However there had been a hard frost overnight and the car was well frozen up. Decided to just leave it.

After defrosting the windows I drove it down to Kenny's garage for 08.00hrs and apologised to him for the mess it's in. Looks Ok to me said he, you should see the state of some of the stuff people hand in. It's then a half hour walk home which was bitterly cold but with bright sunshine - I really enjoyed it.

Oh, and the TPMS light stayed off, so that's been all day yesterday and this morning, about 65 to 70 miles covered, with no light showing. I think it's "happy" now. Kenny said my Ibiza is the first car up for MOT this morning so I've to give him a ring mid morning when it'll likely be ready to collect. Fingers crossed!

 

[vexorg]

The slightly different diameters do seem to annoy the TPMS system on the Citroën.

Must the cheaper citroens, mine's over 10 years old and has the pressure sensors in the wheel

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Kenny said my Ibiza is the first car up for MOT this morning so I've to give him a ring mid morning when it'll likely be ready to collect. Fingers crossed!

MOT update. Very pleased to say she passed! Not even an advisory. Mind you, at only coming up on 6 years old and with just under 25,000 miles under the wheels I would not be expecting anything seriously wrong.

Becky, our Panda is next, due by mid march. At 12 years old there's greater scope for a fail with her but as she's my "toy" I almost welcome them finding something for me to sort!

 

[StevenRB45]

Must the cheaper citroens, mine's over 10 years old and has the pressure sensors in the wheel

Most cars use rotational differential now, the older systems proved a nice mixture of unreliable and expensive.

You can fit standard wheels and valves to rotational differential system and also it has no batteries or antennas to be broken or exhausted.

Hence the change, they don't measure actual pressure..they just use the abs sensors. So less accurate but also means you can fit aftermarket or cheap winter wheels without losing TPMS and less to break.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Most cars use rotational differential now, the older systems proved a nice mixture of unreliable and expensive.

You can fit standard wheels and valves to rotational differential system and also it has no batteries or antennas to be broken or exhausted.

Hence the change, they don't measure actual pressure..they just use the abs sensors. So less accurate but also means you can fit aftermarket or cheap winter wheels without losing TPMS and less to break.

Yes, I much prefer the rotational type - for the reasons you state but also because the in wheel type are not well liked by tyre fitters and don't you dare think about using one of those canisters of gunge with them! I would say I don't really see the point of TPMS but having seen cars being driven on completely flat tyres more than once in the last year, I've changed my mind. Of course the driver has to be "savvy" enough to pay attention to the warning and take appropriate action. It also occurs to me it could be a very good thing with a slow deflation on a motorway as you might catch it before the tyre shreds.

 

[StevenRB45]

Yes, I much prefer the rotational type - for the reasons you state but also because the in wheel type are not well liked by tyre fitters and don't you dare think about using one of those canisters of gunge with them! I would say I don't really see the point of TPMS but having seen cars being driven on completely flat tyres more than once in the last year, I've changed my mind. Of course the driver has to be "savvy" enough to pay attention to the warning and take appropriate action. It also occurs to me it could be a very good thing with a slow deflation on a motorway as you might catch it before the tyre shreds.

The one on the Citroën picked up a puncture before the point the tyre would have been destroyed so seemed worthwhile. It bonged long before the tyre was on the rim but it was losing air so fast if I'd driven on 2 or 3 minutes that tyre would have been shredded as it was pulled into a car park heard it hissing, put the spare on.

If I'd not had it I'd have been out on unlit country roads a few minutes later when it became obvious from the drivers seat.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Most cars use rotational differential now, the older systems proved a nice mixture of unreliable and expensive.

You can fit standard wheels and valves to rotational differential system and also it has no batteries or antennas to be broken or exhausted.

Hence the change, they don't measure actual pressure..they just use the abs sensors. So less accurate but also means you can fit aftermarket or cheap winter wheels without losing TPMS and less to break.

I thought this was what older cars use and newer use sensors in each wheel?

My Kia is on the sensors. Have the warning light on all winter when my winter wheels and tyres are fitted as I’ve not had sensors fitted. I always have to wait until the MOT in September before fitting them as the warning light is a failure I believe.

 

[StevenRB45]

I thought this was what older cars use and newer use sensors in each wheel?

My Kia is on the sensors. Have the warning light on all winter when my winter wheels and tyres are fitted as I’ve not had sensors fitted. I always have to wait until the MOT in September before fitting them as the warning light is a failure I believe.

I was under the impression the older style systems had the actual sensors as they were the ones that tend to generate spurious warnings.

It also seems Citroën started with a sensor in each wheel 10 years ago and have abandoned that.

To be fair it's up to whatever manufacturer to fit whatever, I'd imagine they moved to a differential system on the basis it required no additional equipment fitted and did not require the various additional components in the wheels and wheel wells so saved them money. But it's significantly less of a pain in the arse for day to day stuff as well.

As long as a light comes on when you've got flat tyre...there's no difference except one is more inconvenient.

 

[vexorg]

I'm pretty sure quite a few new cars must have sensors stil in the wheels, our new juke has the pressure of each wheel available on the dash, and it is accurate.

I dont believe you could get that level of accuracy on rotational alone.

Same with the citroen sensors, I've got a slow leak in one of the tyres and it comes on at exactly 26psi each time. it also has a flat tyre warning too, below 5psi I think.

It's odd to say tpms sensors are a thing of the past since even the fiat 500 still uses sensors in the wheels.

 

[StevenRB45]

I'm pretty sure quite a few new cars must have sensors stil in the wheels, our new juke has the pressure of each wheel available on the dash, and it is accurate.

I dont believe you could get that level of accuracy on rotational alone.

Same with the citroen sensors, I've got a slow leak in one of the tyres and it comes on at exactly 26psi each time. it also has a flat tyre warning too, below 5psi I think.

It's odd to say tpms sensors are a thing of the past since even the fiat 500 still uses sensors in the wheels.

You are quite correct, a rotational differential system requires you to check with a gauge then initiate the system.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Direct TPMS is the "original" system that manufacturers developed but in response to some of its issues indirect TPMS was developed.

If the end result is the same...i.e. it tells you you've got a puncture how it gets there is not that important. Mine doesn't tell me which tyre has a puncture...but I carry a gauge and pump. If you don't do regular maintenance then direct would be better unless of course you use winter wheels and have no tpms 5 months a year unless you spring for new valves. Do they then need coded to the car so summer wheels wouldn't register when you put them back on? I don't know these things never having had to deal with them.

More than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

As I've never bought into the more expensive VAG brands (SEAT and Skoda for us!) I can't comment for them. However all the VAG products I've worked with so far have used the rotational type.

 

[portland_bill]

Update on my TPMS woes. Reversed out onto our wee road and paused for a moment to reset the system (all tyres correctly pressured) - I did this so the car would be moving forward whilst it registered the new rotational values. The warning light went out, hurrah! Drove out to the Pizza Express on the edge of town (half way meeting point for us and the boys with their families) Happily no light showing! Unfortunately wee our grandaughter was sick half way through the meal (impressed us all by making it to the loos so no mess to clean up, well done girl!) so, looking white as a sheet, she went home with her mum in their car leaving me to drive my son and his wee lad back out to their house in Midlothian when we'd all finished. Foul weather with rain sleet and snow so the car is now absolutely filthy again and it's due at the garage tomorrow morning at 08.00hrs for MOT. Weather tomorrow is forecast to be fine so I'm resolved to get up at first light and, if it's dry, I'll give it a quick hose down and wipe off with my noodle mit. Very pleased to be able to report the TPMS light is behaving itself. I'm still puzzled as to why it lit up though - please just stay off until after the MOT tomorrow. I'm not actually sure if it would fail for showing the tyre pressure light?

I'm taking a wild guess here, and saying this is the SEAT, not the Panda. It'll be using the same system as my Fabia, which uses the wheel rotation differences to alert to problems.
When I bought the Fabia, I had the original alloys swapped for steels form a base model, as learners tend to kerb wheels a lot. It took about 30 miles before the TPMS woke up and squealed at me.
After a puncture, it again took 30 miles before it alerted. Quite likely Jock, your alert was the delayed reaction to the new tyre.
During the summer I frequently need to transport four people and bowls bags to away matches, usually no more than 12 miles each way. I can pump up the rear tyres to their 'full load' setting, do the trip, then let them down again, all before the TPMS realises. For one longer trip, about 15 miles each way, the TPMS will shout just before I get home.
I do wonder if it is capable of alerting to a real puncture early enough to save destroying a tyre. Cheaper system of course than the ones with pressure sensors in the valves, and those can be a bit over sensitive. The system really is for those owners who never check tyre pressures. I wonder though, what happens if all tyres lose pressure evenly?

 

[vexorg]

More than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes.

Not saying one is better than the other particularly, just that the direct measurement is still used on quite a few new cars.

 

[StevenRB45]

I'm taking a wild guess here, and saying this is the SEAT, not the Panda. It'll be using the same system as my Fabia, which uses the wheel rotation differences to alert to problems.
When I bought the Fabia, I had the original alloys swapped for steels form a base model, as learners tend to kerb wheels a lot. It took about 30 miles before the TPMS woke up and squealed at me.
After a puncture, it again took 30 miles before it alerted. Quite likely Jock, your alert was the delayed reaction to the new tyre.
During the summer I frequently need to transport four people and bowls bags to away matches, usually no more than 12 miles each way. I can pump up the rear tyres to their 'full load' setting, do the trip, then let them down again, all before the TPMS realises. For one longer trip, about 15 miles each way, the TPMS will shout just before I get home.
I do wonder if it is capable of alerting to a real puncture early enough to save destroying a tyre. Cheaper system of course than the ones with pressure sensors in the valves, and those can be a bit over sensitive. The system really is for those owners who never check tyre pressures. I wonder though, what happens if all tyres lose pressure evenly?

I'd have said the system was being spoofed by increasing the pressure across the axle evenly when you do the bowls run.

If you pumped one up and left the other it would/should go off fairly quickly.

Changing the wheels over, if all 4 are the same size as each other then it wouldn't notice a difference necessarily. Older style indirect systems just compare wheel speeds..so 4 wheels the same size are no different to another set of wheels of matching size..but different to the first one if that makes sense. Clearly it didn't match it's learned data in some way hence the message 30 miles after.

Both Citroëns we've had have had indirect systems...they've gone off 6 times...and every time has been a puncture and every time has been before the tyre was destroyed. Although the last time the hole was too big to repair. In that case, I left a shop with 4 inflated tyres, drove about 1 minute at 30 mph (during which time I ran something over) it went off and on getting out I discovered I could literally hear air escaping over the traffic but the tyre was still round. So they must be fairly fast acting when they need to be.

Now I just need to take the massive magnets out of my tyres....as 6 punctures since 2014 is bloody ridiculous.

Apparently newer systems can detect all 4 wheels being low as they don't just measure wheel speed...but the system on the DS3 didn't notice all 4 tyres being 7psi down..perhaps the software is updated in the C3..but I haven't tested it.

 

[DaveMcT]

The one on the Citroën picked up a puncture before the point the tyre would have been destroyed so seemed worthwhile. It bonged long before the tyre was on the rim but it was losing air so fast if I'd driven on 2 or 3 minutes that tyre would have been shredded as it was pulled into a car park heard it hissing, put the spare on.

If I'd not had it I'd have been out on unlit country roads a few minutes later when it became obvious from the drivers seat.

I hit some debris on M5 but did not notice any effect on steering until I pulled off the motorway/dual roads and got below 30mph near my destination. One tyre was near flat the other was decidedly soft. One tyre pumped up the other was hissing. I got home on the space saver spare and pumped the slow puncture part way home. Lucky or what! The worst tyre had to be close to shredding itself to bits.

 

[DaveMcT]

PUTIN behaving akin to Hitler.

EU and UK applying "sanctions" that will do noting to affect Putin while doing nothing about the parlous state of their military defence systems. USA is easing itself out of NATO and Putin knows they are no threat to his plans for an East European take-over.

 

[StevenRB45]

EU and UK applying "sanctions" that will do noting to affect Putin while doing nothing about the parlous state of their military defence systems. USA is easing itself out of NATO and Putin knows they are no threat to his plans for an East European take-over.

Given he's achieved none of his day objectives on day 3...it's not going great.

You'd think the toddler hardmen in charge of world politics would be aware of history. In recent times an occupying force has never won a lasting victory.

It's entirely possible to win every engagement, achieve all your objectives and still lose, you'd imagine he'd be aware of the Russian Invasion of Afghanistan...and later Nato adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Having all the weapons in the universe is no good if you aren't fighting a regular army.

Having said all that...the regular army seems to be standing up pretty well at this point (although it is very early days). Unfortunately Putins position/ego will not allow withdrawal or peace without achieving a regime change. He can hardly turn round and say "actually no he's not a Nazi I was mistaken" so if the army stands there's a good chance it'll become the latest in a long line of proxy wars.

The Ukraine is flipping massive, to occupy every key position, patrol every road, check every house will take more troops than the Russians have sent.

I suppose at least in a lighter moment Trump demonstrated his iron grip of the facts by thinking the US had launched an amphibious assault the Ukraine...

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Given he's achieved none of his day objectives on day 3...it's not going great.

You'd think the toddler hardmen in charge of world politics would be aware of history. In recent times an occupying force has never won a lasting victory.

It's entirely possible to win every engagement, achieve all your objectives and still lose, you'd imagine he'd be aware of the Russian Invasion of Afghanistan...and later Nato adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Having all the weapons in the universe is no good if you aren't fighting a regular army.

Having said all that...the regular army seems to be standing up pretty well at this point (although it is very early days). Unfortunately Putins position/ego will not allow withdrawal or peace without achieving a regime change. He can hardly turn round and say "actually no he's not a Nazi I was mistaken" so if the army stands there's a good chance it'll become the latest in a long line of proxy wars.

The Ukraine is flipping massive, to occupy every key position, patrol every road, check every house will take more troops than the Russians have sent.

I suppose at least in a lighter moment Trump demonstrated his iron grip of the facts by thinking the US had launched an amphibious assault the Ukraine...

I think I heard today that 50% of the total Russian armed forces is now involved in the Ukraine and yet the current Russian deaths stands at about 1000 to around 230 Ukrainians (hey putin I’m sure those 3 children your army murdered were definitely committing genocide)

What amazes me every day is the stories from the Ukrainian people, communities of people making Molotov cocktails in the park, an old woman telling Russian soldiers to put (sunflower) seeds in their pockets so at least some flowers would grow where they die.

And the Ukrainian soldiers on snake island who, when told to surrender told the Russian navy to “go F¥<k themselves”

If the Russians ever picked the wrong fight it was with the Ukraine