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My in-laws are 2,000 miles away but I'd actually love to see them. They miss the kids and the kids miss seeing them.
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What's made you grumpy today?
Catching up on some YouTube...
Now I've defended car touch screens in the past...but what the actual Fudge is this.
24 minutes in if you don't want have your eyeballs offended by the exterior.
There's more complication and options in just the climate control menu...than there is in the entire system PSA got pilloried for 5 years ago as being dangerous and distracting.
You know it's bad when you're watching a review and thinking..."stop messing with it and look at the road"
Just as well it weighs 2.5 tonnes so you won't suffer the consequences of your actions when adjusting your heated seat leads to wiping out.
Now I've defended car touch screens in the past...but what the actual Fudge is this.
24 minutes in if you don't want have your eyeballs offended by the exterior.
There's more complication and options in just the climate control menu...than there is in the entire system PSA got pilloried for 5 years ago as being dangerous and distracting.
You know it's bad when you're watching a review and thinking..."stop messing with it and look at the road"
Just as well it weighs 2.5 tonnes so you won't suffer the consequences of your actions when adjusting your heated seat leads to wiping out.
You can watch cinematic format movies on that though! 
What I do enjoy is that the UI designer will have known it was going to be on an ultra wide monitor. Yet he still (this is definitely a bloke who designed this) built in a requirement to scroll left and right...rather say using a double row of IconsYou can watch cinematic format movies on that though!
Probably my views on touch screens in motor vehicles is quite well known by now. I actually quite like a lot of the useful driver assistances offered by modern technology but I'm completely against anything which becomes a distraction to the driver. So I'd ban both touch screens and being able to use a mobile phone whilst driving. It's the distraction factor which worries me so "hands free" just doesn't stack up in my opinion and having to look away from the road to locate touch screens is insane! Someone needs to develop controls which are recognizable by touching them - like a modern version of the knobs on old type radios. I could switch on, tune in and adjust the volume all without taking my eyes off the road or deploying concentration or reasoning power away from my brain! Let's get back to having the driver concentrate 100% on driving and leave the distracting tech for passengers to "play" with
Happy Christmas everyone!
Happy Christmas everyone!
The issue I have with touchscreens in a car is if you go over a bump your finger flies off and presses something you didn't mean to.
At least with a physical tactile button this doesn't happen (or as often).
At least with a physical tactile button this doesn't happen (or as often).
Merry Christmas Jock!
The reason I've defended them in the past...is if given thought as to how the end user will use them they can be ok.
If you restrict the things in it to "set and forget" functions then got no problem with that. Eg. This morning I dived into ours...because it was a cold morning so I put the tyre pressures up half a bar and needed to reset the monitor. In the same sub menu lives the stop start on/off, the traction control on/off, parking sensors on/off and diagnostics.
In another sub menu lives the stuff to determine how interior and exterior lights behave on locking and unlocking the car plus screen and dash brightness.
Another sub menu allows you to fine tune how aggressive the climate control is in chasing your selected temperature..and of course in a main menu the temperature setting itself
What's the point in listing it all out? Well it's a reasonably cheap modern car so not massively equipped by any stretch but if you had button for everything it would be like an 80s hifi not a dashboard.
Also to make the point that nothing in the screen is anything that would need urgent attention. Demist, lights, stereo controls etc etc. have physical buttons.
This BMW looks a TV on demo mode in Currys its mainly been designed to look flash.
What is the difference between having a conversation with someone on the phone (handsfree of course), and talking to someone in the car ? I don't really see the difference with regards the attention drawn from the driver and can't see anyone supporting banning conversations between the driver and their passengers.
Merry Christmas
That's a good point and I agree that noone would comply with banning conversation between the driver and passengers. However it's interesting to think about how distracting having such a conversation can be and that in many public transport vehicles you'll see a notice not to speak with the driver whilst the vehicle is in motion. In fact I actually witnessed a very near accident just the other day. I was sitting at a major "T" junction just down the road from home. The traffic lights give the left lane a green arrow to turn left whilst holding the right lane from turning right whilst allowing the traffic crossing in front on the main road to complete turning right. The two in the car in front of me - we were in the right turning lane - were chatting away in a very animated fashion looking at each other much more than paying attention to what was going on around them. The left turn filter arrow came on and the car alongside them in the left lane drove off. The two in front immediately set off turning right against the red light in our lane (I can only assume the driver noticed the car next to them moving and went for it without looking at the lights?) Luckily the chap on the main road was very switched on and did an emergency stop just stopping short of ramming the car midships. Had they not been chatting so immersively this incident would never have happened. A further observation I'd make is that remarkably few drivers ever check that the way is clear before moving off from a traffic light. They just see the green light and go! Don't do this folks. As you are engaging first gear and releasing your hand brake, take the time to briefly glance left and right to be sure crossing traffic has actually come to a stop. 99% of the time they will have stopped, but what about the few who push their luck?
Quite unscientifically my own observation of drivers on their 'phones is that they tend to be rather disconnected from the task of driving. Typically they will not move off smartly when traffic starts moving in a queue or when traffic lights go green - not in every instance of course but more frequently than the average - and, because so many don't now apply their hand brake when stationary, they often tend to creep unintentionally. Many drivers tend now to hold the car on the brake pedal at traffic lights etc but it's the people on their 'phones who I seem to notice being the worst at creeping.
However, being realistic, nothing I'm saying here is going to change anything so I'll just continue driving, as advised by my brother in law who was an ex RAF airline pilot, as if everyone around you is actively trying to have an accident with you!
To put a different spin on this conversation, there is no rules on using a mobile phone or taking photos or such while piloting a plane, yet you need a much higher level of attention. You also have radio communication going on all the time and it’s easy to argue without radio communication flying would be a lot more dangerous.
The reason for banning mobile phones in cars was never to stop you “talking” as you simply can’t argue that talking to a passenger is any less dangerous than talking hands free, there would also not have been anyway to enforce hands free use.
The main problem is people holding a phone to their head (or putting it on speaker and shouting at their hand like they all seem to do on the apprentice Tv show) if you’re holding something you are not in proper control of the car you don’t have a hand free to change gear or apply indicators.
I see no argument where you can ban the use of a phone in a car. Also a touch screen in my view is no more distracting than any other controls in the car, and these days most things can be done by voice. You can now ask your car to play any one of millions of songs straight from your phone never lifting your hand off the steering wheel, back in the day how many accidents where caused by fiddling with CDs or cassette tapes (8 track if you’re old enough) how many accidents where caused by people carefully turning a dial to get the frequency right for the radio station they wanted because radios didn’t used to seek automatically?
I don’t think the problem is technology, in other industries where there is more accountability and training people do things you’d never be allowed to do while driving and without any accidents, the problem is anyone it seems can get a driving licence and there is no system where by someone who past their test 50 years ago on a Ford Anglia is expected to update or refresh their skills for cars of the modern era, then there are all the idiots who pay no attention because they are doing what they believe to be correct with no adaptability or flexibility for constantly evolving situations
The reason for banning mobile phones in cars was never to stop you “talking” as you simply can’t argue that talking to a passenger is any less dangerous than talking hands free, there would also not have been anyway to enforce hands free use.
The main problem is people holding a phone to their head (or putting it on speaker and shouting at their hand like they all seem to do on the apprentice Tv show) if you’re holding something you are not in proper control of the car you don’t have a hand free to change gear or apply indicators.
I see no argument where you can ban the use of a phone in a car. Also a touch screen in my view is no more distracting than any other controls in the car, and these days most things can be done by voice. You can now ask your car to play any one of millions of songs straight from your phone never lifting your hand off the steering wheel, back in the day how many accidents where caused by fiddling with CDs or cassette tapes (8 track if you’re old enough) how many accidents where caused by people carefully turning a dial to get the frequency right for the radio station they wanted because radios didn’t used to seek automatically?
I don’t think the problem is technology, in other industries where there is more accountability and training people do things you’d never be allowed to do while driving and without any accidents, the problem is anyone it seems can get a driving licence and there is no system where by someone who past their test 50 years ago on a Ford Anglia is expected to update or refresh their skills for cars of the modern era, then there are all the idiots who pay no attention because they are doing what they believe to be correct with no adaptability or flexibility for constantly evolving situations
Plane wise you're talking different time scales though. There is no aircraft equivalent of someone stepping off the kerb in front of you. If all is working as it should you will have miles (literally) of clearance to any other traffic..and if anyone is going to cross your path you should be warned in advance. Not to say there's no need to make split second decisions, but I'd suggest that if for example you missed the runway and it was found you'd been snapchatting your speed you'd not be allowed anywhere near a plane again. In commercial aviation there are various "sterile cockpit" rules to be followed in critical phases of flight generally take off and approach. Other than that you can trim the thing to fly hands and feet off in absolute safety on a reasonably calm day or engage auto pilot if you have one.
There's not really an equivalent of *look down for 10 seconds to find heated seat button in the menus then look up to realise the car in front has stopped*
In general I agree they don't have to be distracting....but the moment you start requiring specific motions and scrolling around rather than a just a prod is the moment you start requiring people to concentrate on something they shouldn't be.
You need to look at the screen to identify that the control you want isn't there...then swipe it across....while keeping your eyes on the screen to make sure you've not gone past it...then locate the button...and press it..or in the case of some hold your finger on the screen and slide. You're adjusting the heating not posting on Facebook it should be easier than that.
Also you are not required by law to take a course in the vehicle you are driving and read the owners manual before being allowed out in it.
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actually there is.
Spins are one of the biggest killers of pilots, usually develop in a short space of time and usually in a short few seconds or so of not paying attention.
It’s quite scary to watch on video let alone be in the middle of it l, they are so dangerous they don’t train them because of the possibility of not being able to recover, and some planes are not by design able to recover. It’s the main reason they started fitting parachutes to light aircraft.
Training is usually don’t only for flight instructors hence these videos that do exist
If you don’t recover from it, then you’ll usually end up like this
While you have seconds to save it in the incident. You should recognise the risk before it gets to that. That is what flight training is for, your instructor will have told you the best ways to avoid it and the factors that cause it and how to recover it should the worst occur. Obviously it is up to the pilot to implement that training.
In the same way as in a car you should understand that travelling fast into a corner and then making a large sudden control input, be it brakes, steering or throttle is a good way to have an accident.
It's not the same thing as being happily in a steady state, looking away for a short period, making no control inputs, and looking back to find you are in an unrecoverable situation.
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In the video he is forcing the spin in order to practice the recovery hence deliberately pulling back, normally though a spin can develop without any input from the pilot, just an incorrectly set up aircraft or change in circumstances combined with the pilot not being aware at that moment
Don't see it I'm afraid...on the basis you can fly an aircraft quite safely with 0 reference to outside points of reference (provided you've done your instrument rating).
You can't do that in a car...you must be observing the road in front of you or you will crash.
I get they have impressed upon you that this is dangerous and that is good....but as long as you have enough altitude to recover and the presence of mind/skill to do so you should be fine. I assume if you're low enough for a spin to be lethal you'd not be messing with your phone as you'll be on approach or landing or taking off.
Not to say situational awareness isn't important in both modes of transport, it's just that the time scale to disaster is much shorter in a car and it travels in a much less controlled environment.
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As I’ve said, there are aircraft that are not recoverable.
Something like a Cessna 172 will but other aircraft are not designed in a way that allows recovery from a spin.
It is a genuinely problematic situation and can develop quickly from not paying attention.
My point wasn’t to argue about this but to point out that the level of training on the road falls well below other areas. Some take the approach of if they take enough tests eventually they will get lucky, and then for the rest of their life they will be able to drive without anyone checking their safe.
You have to renew your single engine rating on an aircraft every 2 years to keep flying
Just makes a change from arguing about cars
.On this point you'll get no argument from me at all. The vast majority of drivers are uninterested in either improving their driving or even reading the owners manual of their vehicle.
Possibly why fitting a large touchscreen and hiding functions in plain sight is a bad idea.
I'm interested...I like to know how things work to me it's worth my time to figure it out. But many many people will get in...pair their phone and that's where the interest stops. As long as they get to the destination that's a success, regardless of whether or not they are accompanied by symphony of car horns or whatever near misses they may have.
I get to train qualified drivers of all ages, sometimes only recently passed their test, to others who've been driving 40+ years. A lot of the training we do involves making the drive smoother, by looking further ahead, better anticipation and planning. This can be highlighted with two runs using the trip computer, recording average speed and fuel consumption. A smoother run, with better anticipation resulting in fewer stops, will nearly always result in a higher average speed, and less fuel used, without increasing the speeds travelled at. This nearly always gets their attention, often with incredulity that they can go 'faster' without adding speed.Just makes a change from arguing about cars
On this point you'll get no argument from me at all. The vast majority of drivers are uninterested in either improving their driving or even reading the owners manual of their vehicle.
Possibly why fitting a large touchscreen and hiding functions in plain sight is a bad idea.
I'm interested...I like to know how things work to me it's worth my time to figure it out. But many many people will get in...pair their phone and that's where the interest stops. As long as they get to the destination that's a success, regardless of whether or not they are accompanied by symphony of car horns or whatever near misses they may have.
With most, they have no idea that the car will show those figures, and I have to find the trip controls to display these. This is just tip of the iceberg, with so many functions unknown to the driver. They find the heated seats ok, but few have any idea about heated mirrors, cruise control or speed limiter. Some have no idea how to use the climate control, they just keep fiddling with it, instead of setting a temp and putting it onto auto. The worrying thing is that so many think that self-driving cars will allow them to abdicate more of the driving decisions. I tell them we already have self-driving vehicles, they're called taxis, buses and trains.
A month ago, the Fabia got a rock slung at it by a clown cutting in on the motorway. had to lift off otherwise he'd have taken my front wing off. Screen then cracked.
Skodas, and a few others, have a little plastic clip on the screen pillar, that presses against the screen to put car park tickets under. This is very useful, and therefore important.
Screen got replaced, but clip no longer touches screen.
Windscreen company arrived again today to rectify. Fitter was a bit off with this. (different fitter). Declared that 'most fitters just cut it off', and 'they do relax over time'.
As it was fine before the screen was replaced, I doubt it 'relaxed' overnight. He fiddled with the clip, trying to force it to sit against the screen, but of course it has one fitted position. It looks like the screen has too much sealant, holding it awy from the body. So he removed and refitted the screen, clip is closer, but still not touching the screen. So still no good. He left saying nothing more he could do.
Complained to insurance company. And a new ref. number from same screen company. I see a firm discussion coming tomorrow.
Skodas, and a few others, have a little plastic clip on the screen pillar, that presses against the screen to put car park tickets under. This is very useful, and therefore important.
Screen got replaced, but clip no longer touches screen.
Windscreen company arrived again today to rectify. Fitter was a bit off with this. (different fitter). Declared that 'most fitters just cut it off', and 'they do relax over time'.
As it was fine before the screen was replaced, I doubt it 'relaxed' overnight. He fiddled with the clip, trying to force it to sit against the screen, but of course it has one fitted position. It looks like the screen has too much sealant, holding it awy from the body. So he removed and refitted the screen, clip is closer, but still not touching the screen. So still no good. He left saying nothing more he could do.
Complained to insurance company. And a new ref. number from same screen company. I see a firm discussion coming tomorrow.
Aye PB "Tech" and people's inability to understand what it does and how it works. As a very simple example take thermostatically controlled radiators. (in the house that is). As part of the upgrade to our heating system, when we had a new kitchen fitted and other work done a few years ago, our plumber fitted all our radiators with thermostatic valves and asked if we wanted a new wall thermostat fitted to replace the old one in the hall (core of the building). This thermostat senses air temp in the building core so will shut down the system if the set temp (in the hall) is exceeded. A conversation ensued where he said his preference is to disable this type of thermostat (or turn them up to their highest setting) because it's only "looking" at the temp in the hall, and then set each room's radiator thermostat to a temperature you like in that room. So I keep the hall radiator (house core with open stairwell) at about 3.75 (on a scale of 5) which keeps the building core nice and warm with heated air also rising to heat the upstairs). All other rads I keep at 3 except unused bedrooms which get set on frostguard. The heating is off from 22.30 to 08.00 each night and I find this gives us a nice warm house when we get up in the morning with all radiators (except frostguard set ones) hot for about the first hour or so then the upstairs rads just about shut down for the rest of the day as the hall radiator output rises to keep the upstairs warm. So for most of the day the boiler is keeping just the living room, utility room, and hall radiators running with the living room rads "riding" their thermostats on and off if you keep the door closed.
It's difficult to say whether this practice alone saves any money as we had a new condensing boiler fitted at the same time, but our gas bill is now noticeably less than it was previously so I'm happy and have a nice evenly heated house. Oh, and he balanced the radiators for us. This is well worth doing - google or you tube it if you don't know about this.
My younger boy has also had all his rads fitted with thermostats during the work on his recent extension but can we make his wife understand how they work and that the radiators won't always feel "toasty" hot if that room has reached the set temperature? Not a hope! She goes round the house turning the radiators up to full whenever we try to regulate them! Oh well, as they say, you can lead a horse to the water but you can't make it drink.
By the way, useful tip from my plumber, Thermostatic radiator valves contain a rubber seating washer - much like an old type tap washer - If you turn a thermostatic red control down to shut and leave it there for a very long time this washer can bond to it's seat and then prevent the valve from working properly. Either leave it on a low setting so it'll come on and off slightly every day or, if you're going to screw it off altogether, turn it fully on once every month or so to stop the rubber sticking.
So, if people can't understand simple systems like this what hope is there they are going to understand things like tyre pressure monitors and cruise etc?
