Technical Weird Steering

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Technical Weird Steering

Makes reverse parking and three point turns or whatever you like to call them these days a breeze

Just have to remember to press it whenever you need a lot of lock at very low speeds or while stationary
I can turn the wheel with my little finger on with the City mode off. City mode does make it possible to change from full lock one way to full lock the other with a small flick of the wrist, but I believe in respecting the tyres and turn the steering only when the car is moving unless its totally impossible. Personally I think its a gimmick and not even a very good one. My other pet hate of the 169 system is how easy it is to activate City mode by accident when adjusting the radio At speed the change is not far short of dangerous in my opinion. But if,f you suffer from an injury and find steering a painful thing - occasionally I get severe tendonitis, then it comes into its own. However, Im glad someone is prepared to stand up for it. Long live the differences.
 
I can turn the wheel with my little finger on with the City mode off. City mode does make it possible to change from full lock one way to full lock the other with a small flick of the wrist, but I believe in respecting the tyres and turn the steering only when the car is moving unless its totally impossible. Personally I think its a gimmick and not even a very good one. My other pet hate of the 169 system is how easy it is to activate City mode by accident when adjusting the radio At speed the change is not far short of dangerous in my opinion. But if,f you suffer from an injury and find steering a painful thing - occasionally I get severe tendonitis, then it comes into its own. However, Im glad someone is prepared to stand up for it. Long live the differences.
I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the city mode automatically cancelled over a certain speed. I'm sure I've read something in the hand book about it.
 
I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the city mode automatically cancelled over a certain speed. I'm sure I've read something in the hand book about it.
I read that also so tried it at around 55 mph still comes on, hardly noticeable as the assistance is proportional to speed but it's definitely still doing a bit but the steering is still lighter
 
Doesn't look like it's sitting flush

One side higher than the other

Or is it just the photo

View attachment 443078
One nut is done up and the other loose which may explain. Wrong type of nut in this pic. Better replaced in pairs and with the correct nuts. There are top strut bearings and top strut bearings. Quite significant differences in the thickness of the rubber coatings from one type to another and I suspect this can affect how they seat and ride height. Any poor quality control in manufacture will mean slight differences that may equalise after some use. Getting the torque right on the the strut mounting nut is not easy. I think getting better quality top mounts rather than the cheapest may be beneficial but the cost difference can be a big issue. I know because I fitted cheap parts 5 years back to Daffo and I think they need doing again I shall move up the market this time.
I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the city mode automatically cancelled over a certain speed. I'm sure I've read something in the hand book about it.
You are correct. I think it not that it cancels but that it only works at low speeds.
 
People liked the steering and ride on the stock Panda.

In the original 2005 reviews

I had three, all have been fine, no need to correct the steering over bumps, they all track, true

That includes one with a visibly bent rear axle,

The original arms and bushes last well, in fact if you treat them well most of the parts do

but things do wear out and get damaged, I am surprised on the petrol we don't see more struts changed they are almost sacrificial in a bump, also surprised we don't see more racks changed, after a sideways bump into a curb, they tend to stick slightly at higher speeds
 
People liked the steering and ride on the stock Panda.

In the original 2005 reviews

I had three, all have been fine, no need to correct the steering over bumps, they all track, true

That includes one with a visibly bent rear axle,

The original arms and bushes last well, in fact if you treat them well most of the parts do

but things do wear out and get damaged, I am surprised on the petrol we don't see more struts changed they are almost sacrificial in a bump, also surprised we don't see more racks changed, after a sideways bump into a curb, they tend to stick slightly at higher speeds
I have been looking for a rack for Daffo but it seems these ae no longer produced and so far I cant find any aftermarket ones either.
 
Try

51876158

I not checked if later years are the same

Third party such as Fast FT19074 are under £80
Well I'll be! I tried and couldnt find any. This appears to be the ticket and at this price its a no brainer. We have a slight knock that probably just the n/s inner tack rod bush in the rack but we now also have some significant clonking from somewhere else I can't identify so I think its probably best to pull the whole lot out and change the lot so I will know exactly whats what. The springs are rusty and 1 may possibly have lost a fraction of the end. While its in bits I will fit a rack and a whole new front suspension, apart from struts as these are still fine. Daffo is movIng towards 90K so its not unfair to need an overhaul. A little fine weather and I shall get stuck in, between finishing the firs daughters house in Manchester.... (repoint the front face of the house, repair concrete window sill and rebuild the porch) and complete renovation of the second daughters bungalow once we hav it finalised, retreating the axles on all 3 pandas and tryiong to keep the house and garden together. Bloody chimney needs sweeping now Wont someone tell the kin world im too kinold for this!
 
Would be good to know how it goes.

I think I've only changed one rack on a Panda, and i vaguely remember that the only reason for changing it was that someone had damaged it when trying to remove it. I do remember it being harder work than I expected when I started.
Every other time when it wasn't top mounts or front dampers, it has been inner tie rods (which are readily available and easy to fit).

I do need to change a front subframe at some point this year (rust damage on an otherwise un-rusty diesel Panda) but that's an easier job altogether (unless the subframe bolts snap, of course) and I'll probably use a secondhand one with rack already in it anyway as I've saved a few from ones on their way to the great Panda graveyard in the sky. (New gaiters and inner tie rods, of course)
 

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The only fault I know with the rack is stiff after a bump

They feel fine at low speed say parking in a car park when there is maximum assistance

But if you are changing from one lane to another on the motorway there's a bit of reluctance to start to turn, then once you are in the lane it's again a fight to straighten it up

Someone did a good video on different car, see if I can find it again, would help if I could remember the model of car
 
Well I'll be! I tried and couldnt find any. This appears to be the ticket and at this price its a no brainer. We have a slight knock that probably just the n/s inner tack rod bush in the rack but we now also have some significant clonking from somewhere else I can't identify so I think its probably best to pull the whole lot out and change the lot so I will know exactly whats what. The springs are rusty and 1 may possibly have lost a fraction of the end. While its in bits I will fit a rack and a whole new front suspension, apart from struts as these are still fine. Daffo is movIng towards 90K so its not unfair to need an overhaul. A little fine weather and I shall get stuck in, between finishing the firs daughters house in Manchester.... (repoint the front face of the house, repair concrete window sill and rebuild the porch) and complete renovation of the second daughters bungalow once we hav it finalised, retreating the axles on all 3 pandas and tryiong to keep the house and garden together. Bloody chimney needs sweeping now Wont someone tell the kin world im too kinold for this!
Don't worry to much TPN it's keeping you active. (y) :)
 
Don't worry to much TPN it's keeping you active. (y) :)
More like killing me. Im mid way repainting the o/s sill. Large areas no paint left. Its in primer so a little rubdown and top coat tomorrow. I also have new rubber bungs for the joles where they have disappeared.. Galvanised panels dont like paint!
 
Hello Martin. So glad to know I'm not alone! I bought our 2010 Panda Dynamic Eco 1.2 with 62,000 miles on the clock and full service history earlier this year. For a number of reasons we only really started to use her much about 6 weeks, or so, ago. Your description of the steering is pretty much how I would describe ours and I posted about it on the forum a number of weeks ago but got no interest. I have conducted a very thorough examination of the steering and associated components and can find no faults or worn parts. (I'm a retired mechanic but worked mostly on Rover group products in the days they were BMC!) Interestingly I've found that, with the car stationary, even very small movements at the steering wheel rim result in movement at the roadwheel. Which tends to confirm no wear is present. driving around town the effect is not too noticeable. (Mrs Jock doesn't know what I'm moaning about) but out on the open road or on motorway/dual carriageway, as you say, the steering fails to self centre over about the central 5° or so of steering wheel movement. So, as you say, you are continually, and very tiresomely, applying very small correcting movements to the steering wheel. This is not at all like the normal corrective movements I've found necessary on other vehicles. I've only driven a few vehicles that felt like this and most had either partially siezed king pins/ball joints/trunnions or steering racks. There are two I know of where it's a feature of the vehicle. My younger boy's wife runs a 2008 Honda Jazz idsi - the MK 1 version. It's steering behaves exactly the same (and it's electric) only worse in degree of "wander". I spoke to both our Honda independents up here in Edinburgh and got the same answer - it's normal for that model! Apparently it's a big problem on that model with no known effective cure! Although many have replaced the rack at great expense! The other vehicle was one of the old 1200 Lada's. Again a design problem which was never really sorted out as far as I know.

Shortly after buying it I bought Multiecuscan from Gendan (very helpful people) and, after a wee bit of trouble configuring the interface, ran a whole vehicle scan. The only DTC that came up was one for the torque sensor on the steering. I wiped it and it hasn't come back. I do wonder if that may be a bit of a clue? Although other forum posts seem to indicate that DTC's associated with the power steering can be set when the battery or connections are suspect. Carefully checked mine and all seems good although I suspect the battery to be the original.

So. I don't seem to have anything wrong or worn yet this slightly strange effect is still evident and annoying me. - just asked Mrs J and she says she notices nothing and is very happy driving the car! Keeping my eyes open for the chance to drive a similar Panda for comparison.
Well, joining this very late but just purchased a 1.2 Panda Easy 2015 and been out for first drive today apart from the around town test drive. Exactly as described steering on the open roads ! Really quite disappointed with my new purchase now :-( it has done a good few miles but it’s immaculate condition even the interior looks like brand new not a mark on anything. So you can imagine my extreme disappointment to have this centring issue. Almost like it’s just the tiniest bit tight and continuous steering inputs to keep it on track, it’s more than a casual lean on the wheel like other vehicles. Feel that you have to make the tiniest input but is not a “lean” a tiny bit more effort than that. It’s so annoying and really has ruined the car for me m :-( I have read the thread but it got a bit heavy in welding etc. I wonder if anyone found the fault as it seems that it is common on here?
 
Well, joining this very late but just purchased a 1.2 Panda Easy 2015 and been out for first drive today apart from the around town test drive. Exactly as described steering on the open roads ! Really quite disappointed with my new purchase now :-( it has done a good few miles but it’s immaculate condition even the interior looks like brand new not a mark on anything. So you can imagine my extreme disappointment to have this centring issue. Almost like it’s just the tiniest bit tight and continuous steering inputs to keep it on track, it’s more than a casual lean on the wheel like other vehicles. Feel that you have to make the tiniest input but is not a “lean” a tiny bit more effort than that. It’s so annoying and really has ruined the car for me m :-( I have read the thread but it got a bit heavy in welding etc. I wonder if anyone found the fault as it seems that it is common on here?

This is the Pre 2013 section

It 9 years old almost certainly something worn or damaged

Tyre pressures
Tyre side walls
Rear control arm bushes (most likely)
Top mounts
Alignment

Set up correctly there is no problem

I can drive down the motorway, with very little input at the steering wheel, in fact there's a bit between J17 and J16 of the M6 with little camber and a worn road surface, you can take you hands off the steering wheel for several miles and it stays in lane

Fiat SpA association with the Delphi electric power steering started in 1999
original press review loved the steering and ride, and it won Car of the Year award in 2004

And the platform is used for the 500, Ka, panda
 
Many thanks for the info, sorry, didn’t see the pre 2013 section. I just put my issues in a search engine and this thread popped up and described my dilemma exactly. I really want to get it working well as I love it ! It has the potential to be so much fun. It does have a lot of miles on it ( 107K ) so wear is most likely somewhere. It was just the exactness of the previous posts in this thread may have highlighted a common cause and rectification. Trevor.
 
It's not a problem
Somethings are unique to a model

In this case it makes very little difference as as far as I know the suspension hasn't changed since the Punto 199

Slightly different track widths camber and so on, but the basics are the same

What the tyre wear like

Do you do your own repairs

Any advisories if you search through the old MOT,s
 
Thank you, very good idea to check MOT history and it has had a few issues but last years MOT may have some clues. This years was done by the selling garage but didn’t mention anything !

Last years advisories :
  • Nearside Front Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement rear bush (5.3.4 (a) (i))
  • Offside Front Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement rear bush (5.3.4 (a) (i))
  • Nearside Front Tyre worn close to legal limit/worn on edge wearing slightly on outer edge (5.2.3 (e))
There was an advisories a couple of years ago mentioning top mounts but not mentioned after that. Nothing in service history to indicate repairs.

I have always done my own repairs but getting on in years now and laying under a car doesn’t enthuse me much anymore , however I can soon be persuaded by garage prices nowadays !

Trevor
 
Rear rubber bushes on the control arms have gone, assuming it not already been changed

Easy job

Will give vague steering

Top mounts may or may not have been done

Tyre wear is interesting may be due the the worn arms, or something else, if one side has the other tyre been changed (newer)
 
Thank you, very good idea to check MOT history and it has had a few issues but last years MOT may have some clues. This years was done by the selling garage but didn’t mention anything !

Last years advisories :
  • Nearside Front Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement rear bush (5.3.4 (a) (i))
  • Offside Front Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement rear bush (5.3.4 (a) (i))
  • Nearside Front Tyre worn close to legal limit/worn on edge wearing slightly on outer edge (5.2.3 (e))
There was an advisories a couple of years ago mentioning top mounts but not mentioned after that. Nothing in service history to indicate repairs.

I have always done my own repairs but getting on in years now and laying under a car doesn’t enthuse me much anymore , however I can soon be persuaded by garage prices nowadays !

Trevor
If the bottom wishbone inner rear bushes are worn, it allows the suspension to kick around a bit and may account for tyre wear .
Without getting under the car you may see it by taking up drive a little sharply with the handbrake on and seeing if the front wheels kick around .
Possible if jacked up and engine off with wheel turned inwards shake wheel at 9 Oclock and 3 Oclock it should be possible to see the rear inner wishbone bushes move.
 
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