Technical Water pump replacement 3 litre Ducato

[errolmorris]

It's been a long time since I visited when I was after some information on replacing the water pump on my 3 litre 08 Ducato. That was just over two years ago.
My research told me that the engine had to come out and that it would take the Fiat specialists from 4 to 5 days to complete at a cost of anywhere from $5,000 to $8,000 plus parts which they estimated at an extra $1,500 to $3,000 on top of the labour costs. It was not the sort of job that could be done in a home workshop. Even owners from overseas warned me not to attempt it at home and if I did want to go ahead, I would need to set aside at least a week and have access to parts.
Well, my son came to visit the other day and as I had already bought the pump from an overseas supplier at one tenth the Australian price, he decided that we should at least make a start.
Just as an aside, I bought the belt from a supplier in Victoria for the same price as the pump cost me from overseas. Go figure that one, but then I wasn't able to buy a belt from overseas anyway.
Since we have never worked on a Fiat van before, this was to be an experiment. All my research indicated a huge job ahead.
As my son suggested, it almost seems like there is a conspiracy thing happening with these poorly designed vehicles in that no one wants to disclose any information about mechanical repairs to these things and as we are both mechanics, we have the advantage of some pretty fancy and specialised tools between us. None of which we needed. The job took us about 8 hours from start to finish and neither of us had any idea what we were going to encounter.
Add to that, I am in a very remote location with the nearest spare parts supplier 6 hours drive by road from me. We had several coffee breaks while we contemplated each move and we probably could do the job again in around 5-6 hours.
If anyone would like any information, please let me know and I would be happy to share my experience.

 

[mrspl]

Hi. It would be very interesting to know what parts you needed to remove or loosen to get the job done ?

 

[ldv400]

Hi
Well done to the pair of you :worship:it,s a pity you had,nt took some pic,s as you done the job for others to follow,any help like this to "confident" DIY,ers can as you pointed out help to save us a fortune, once again well done.

cheers Sammy

 

[errolmorris]

You are quite right about the photo thingy. I'm regretting not taking photos but actually, it is really is a very simple job. A little dexterity is about all you will need.
As for tools. A set of 'tube' sockets would be helpful as well as a set of ratchet ring spanners and a universal socket connector. Not necessary, but quite helpful. Most nuts and bolts are 15mm and I think there were a couple of 16mm also. Other than that it is pretty straight forward.
This water pump on the 3 litre engine is also an engine mount which sounds a bit weird, but it seems to work.The belts are a bit of a worry with the water pump belt running the alternator and this belt uses a tensioner/jockey wheel while the outer belt is a stretch fit and that can be tricky but we worked out an easy solution without having to resort to a special tool, which is available at a stupid price and which you may only ever use once in your life. If you decide to take on the job, I'd be happy to supply my phone number to talk you through it or we could correspond via email.
I'm sorry I can't be more helpful than that, but maybe I could try a few drawings if anyone would prefer. Either way, it might take a bit of time, but it would be well worth it otherwise you'll be at the mercy of a Fiat specialist.I should also mention that if you have a little mechanical knowhow and a good mate, set aside at least 2 full days as a lot of the front of the vehicle needs to come off as well as the right headlight assembly.
Other tools I forgot to mention was either a floor jack or bottle jack to support the engine as you loosen the engine mounting bolts which are part of the pump.
Sound confusing? Well rest assured, it's not that bad at all.

 

[errolmorris]

I just remembered that you asked for a list of parts needed.
Obviously the pump which came with a new metal gasket, a new ribbed belt, a tube of heat resistant gasket silicon ( I always use this when replacing gaskets-a thin smear is all that is needed), an assortment of hose clamps, enough inhibitor and correct type for your application and although I didn't need any myself, I would replace any hoses that are impossible to get at with the engine in place. This would be the time to replace any that are a bit suspect. A socket set and long ring spanners as mentioned earlier and plenty of patience.
As you remove parts, bolts etc., write down the location so as to avoid confusion when reassembling everything. Even though my son and I have plenty of experience, we still keep notes on every part we remove. putting it all back together again is a simple task and if you need to take a break you will always know where you're up to. If it is a job you do regularly, all well and good, but most of us will hopefully only do this particular job once.

 

[Techno100]

I bought this set of EXTRA long ring spanners just for the 15mm one alone for the Alternator belt tensioner. A great purchase for only £20 delivered.
8mm through to 19mm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141614077118?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[errolmorris]

G'day Techno100. That is exactly what you'll need for the job. Mine are ratcheted at both ends which makes life a little easier. Have you had to do your pump yet?
When I was researching mine, almost everyone told me that it is a rare event and yet I had come across so many people who had experienced early pump failure and they were told the same thing about it being rare. In over 2 years of research, I couldn't find anyone who had done the job themselves as they were told it had to be performed by Fiat specialists.
Two companies my son had worked for told him that they would not attempt the job and they would farm it out to the nearest Fiat workshop.
It's hard to believe that so many people are convinced that almost any work requires a specialist and the cost of carrying out the replacement/repairs is nothing short of robbery.
Anyway, at least I now know how 'simple' the job really is.

 

[Techno100]

G'day Errol? No I've not needed to do it but I think I would do as you and find out for myself. Well done!
I will be swapping my alternator as soon as the weather picks up, its not Summer here

 

[Techno100]

First job before swapping my original 110amp Bosch for a 150amp no name is to try swapping the regulator. If that works at least I'll know I have a saleable unit.

£16.48 delivered ebay

150amp replacement £99.99 £9.95 24hr delivery

As I had a custom made SS exhaust with no cats my access is much improved.

 

[errolmorris]

The alternator shouldn't be too bad although it is in a bugger of a spot. Are you having charging problems hence the regulator swap?

 

[Techno100]

Yes it is US, tits up , fubar'd etc

 

[errolmorris]

That certainly sounds like it is of little use, not up to the job and perhaps not working.
I had a look under my van and yours is much tidier. Given the choice, I would sooner replace your alternator than mine. Aren't new parts great?
Speaking of new parts, my engine light was on for a couple of days and I was dreading having to replace/bodgie or otherwise make some adjustments to make sure mine never worked again but this morning after a particularly hard run, it cleared itself. I think some of the sh*t might have cleared from it. At least I don't have to spend time 'modifying' it or having to remove and blank it off. Bloody tree huggers have a lot to answer for.

 

[Techno100]

Speaking of new parts, my engine light was on for a couple of days and I was dreading having to replace/bodgie or otherwise make some adjustments to make sure mine never worked again but this morning after a particularly hard run, it cleared itself. I think some of the sh*t might have cleared from it. At least I don't have to spend time 'modifying' it or having to remove and blank it off. Bloody tree huggers have a lot to answer for.

I fitted this as well as replacing the throttle valve with the later Pierburg unit.

 

[Techno100]

This is where I usually buy parts. As you can see Errol I am spoilt for choice and price but even the dearest is probably cheaper than Oz
http://www.buycarparts.co.uk/fiat/ducato-box-250/19979/10191/water-pump

 

[Deefordog]

Techno - thanks for the parts link/website, very useful to have

.

 

[Techno100]

Techno - thanks for the parts link/website, very useful to have

.

It is based in Germany and all parts are shipped by UPS. Usually £8 per order

 

[errolmorris]

Hi Techno. You're spot on about pricing. We really get it in the neck here in Oz.
I've just had a close look at the water pump image you have and it appears to have a metal impeller whereas the one I bought, apparently genuine, has the plastic impeller like my original that died. I reckon the metal one would be a little more robust...but too late now.
That electrical unit you have, is that a chip type thingy to counter the EGR operation?

 

[Techno100]

Yes it deals with the ECU so it thinks the EGR is still operating

 

[Techno100]

You can pick up the reading from here
https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/417719-egr-blanking-off-2.html?p=4013897

 

[Techno100]

BTW that parts supplier also ships to OZ. Same price of £92 for any sized order.