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Tuning turbo time!

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Tuning turbo time!

no updates, waiting on my new turbo, had to source a saab downpipe as they have a funky flare end on the turbo exit. (which should actually help when mounting everything up to my old exhaust because it wont need to be spot on) managed to get a mint one for £20.

decided to take fingers advice with the rose joint hanger... only because they "look" good (oh dear) and because I have a hand full of brand new rose joints down the garage.
but im also mounting the downpipe to the rear of the engine.


going to drop my pistons off tomorrow to be tig welded :p
 
the other stuff is your opinion dude, but:

fingers99 said:
Exactly. Hardly complex or fancy, methinks, and it does stuff the others can't.
Click to expand...

fair play really.

Its funny, as soon as I started arguing with you I thought to myself "I want to make a rose jointed turbo hanger" lol

Its still not "perfect" - it only allows for expansion in two planes, not 3. Its just a cool looking bit of kit that is just "better" than a solid brace (y)
 
when I was looking online for minimum piston crown thickness most the stuff was regarding valve relief. you can take it pretty thin as it will only be a tiny area. something like 2mm. so if say you'll be safe removing about 3mm. I take it your worried about high lift cams? if so I can't see it been a problem... if your cams have enough lift to cause interferance then your going to have a massive head ache with the hydralic lifters.
 
Munkul said:
fair play really.

Its funny, as soon as I started arguing with you I thought to myself "I want to make a rose jointed turbo hanger" lol

Its still not "perfect" - it only allows for expansion in two planes, not 3. Its just a cool looking bit of kit that is just "better" than a solid brace (y)
Click to expand...

that's what I thought... looks good lol :p after fingers mentioned it I did a search and never found much to see how they are built/work... the best been the photo above. .. looked very simple
 
craigb244 said:
when I was looking online for minimum piston crown thickness most the stuff was regarding valve relief. you can take it pretty thin as it will only be a tiny area. something like 2mm. so if say you'll be safe removing about 3mm. I take it your worried about high lift cams? if so I can't see it been a problem... if your cams have enough lift to cause interferance then your going to have a massive head ache with the hydralic lifters.
Click to expand...

Not just worried about. haha. I have mild cams fitted now and have contact when rotating by hand. Think it could be half due to cams and half due to the longer 1.2 valves in the 1.4 head. Probably an easier option to look at getting valves shortened slightly or wonder if the 1.2 16v head gasket would give alot better clearance.

Anyway, good to see everything is going smoothly your end. Manifold is looking brilliant. Very impressed. (y)
 
strange...how much longer are the 1.4 valves? bit strange when the heads are ment to be the same... guess fiat may of made them longer to match a different cam profile on the 1.4.

anyway have you checked you fitted the cam belt with the engine on the right stroke?
When i did my mates i did it wrong first and when i turned it over by hand the piston hit the valves
 
I didnt believe that changing the timing 180 degrees would make the slightest difference, but had nothing to lose so gave it a try. Bit of manouvering of cam to do it, but believe it or not there is no contact. :eek: :D :D

According to FAI website the 1.2 exhaust valves are 1.5mm longer, but when measuring they were not, only about .5mm. Seems strange as the fiat idea uses the punto valves, but stilo has shorter ones.

Fingers crossed for no contact when car eventually starts. Thank you very much as always.

And why does it make a difference as haynes says piston can be going up or down.
 
Got my GT17 turbo today.

I got it cheap as it was very smoky.
stripped it down to find it full of carbon but no reason for it to be smoking.

bearings where all fine and under all the crud the turbine and compressor where mint.

but ive rebuilt it with a rebuild kit anyway (bearing/360 thrust bearing/oil seal rings/gaskets/bolts)
removed the old wastegate mount from the compressor housing.
swapped the watercooled core with a aircooled one.
bolted a rosejoint on :)
 

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Munkul said:
nice. Which rosejoints are you using and where did you get em? I suppose anything with bronze bushes will be fine..
Click to expand...

I've had mine a while but you can get them for a couple of quid on ebay.

they are M8 bronze bushes. they are the perfect size for the bolts that hold the core to the exhaust housing so it's all good.
 
Dan said:
I didnt believe that changing the timing 180 degrees would make the slightest difference, but had nothing to lose so gave it a try. Bit of manouvering of cam to do it, but believe it or not there is no contact. :eek: :D :D

According to FAI website the 1.2 exhaust valves are 1.5mm longer, but when measuring they were not, only about .5mm. Seems strange as the fiat idea uses the punto valves, but stilo has shorter ones.

Fingers crossed for no contact when car eventually starts. Thank you very much as always.

And why does it make a difference as haynes says piston can be going up or down.
Click to expand...

good stuff! yes because you do the timing with the crank mid stroke the piston 1 can be either on the way up or down.
 
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craigb244 said:
Got my GT17 turbo today.

I got it cheap as it was very smoky.
stripped it down to find it full of carbon but no reason for it to be smoking.

bearings where all fine and under all the crud the turbine and compressor where mint.

but ive rebuilt it with a rebuild kit anyway (bearing/360 thrust bearing/oil seal rings/gaskets/bolts)
removed the old wastegate mount from the compressor housing.
swapped the watercooled core with a aircooled one.
bolted a rosejoint on :)
Click to expand...

how easy was it to change the core, would the aircooled one be enough to keep the turbo cool?
 
yep... me and munkul spoke about it a few pages back.

the watercooling is only to remove the heat caused by people who turn the engine off without letting the turbo cool (30seconds of idle is usually enough!)

with it you are just pumping VERY hot water into the cooling system.


as for the swap... pretty simple... all parts of the GT series turbos are interchangeable. all I had to do was smooth out the lip on the core just before the area where the turbine seal is... the seal was catching on it when fitting the turbine for some reason.(could be that the rebuild/upgrade kit has seals that are a bit tighter)

I also noticed that the watercooled core never had a heat shield behind the turbine while all the aircooled ive seen have and the one other watercooled did have one to (it was a diesel vvt) I fitted a shield anyway as i imagine that stop a lot of heat getting to the core.

I have enough photos to make a guide if interested?
 
craigb244 said:
yep... me and munkul spoke about it a few pages back.

the watercooling is only to remove the heat caused by people who turn the engine off without letting the turbo cool (30seconds of idle is usually enough!)

with it you are just pumping VERY hot water into the cooling system.


as for the swap... pretty simple... all parts of the GT series turbos are interchangeable. all I had to do was smooth out the lip on the core just before the area where the turbine seal is... the seal was catching on it when fitting the turbine for some reason.(could be that the rebuild/upgrade kit has seals that are a bit tighter)

I also noticed that the watercooled core never had a heat shield behind the turbine while all the aircooled ive seen have and the one other watercooled did have one to (it was a diesel vvt) I fitted a shield anyway as i imagine that stop a lot of heat getting to the core.

I have enough photos to make a guide if interested?
Click to expand...

ye if you could make a guide that would be super, but even a few photos would be great :)
i have a different turbo (ihi rhf4 i no its no great but only going to run 0.3 or 0.4 bar) but its water cooled so the change to aircooled would be great for me :cool:
 
Generally, water cooled ones have ball bearings, so will spool up quicker. I'd not recommend running a ball bearing type turbo (with water cooling) without it -- it'll work, but the cooling actually does some work in keeping the bearings within tolerance and my guess is they'll die a fair bit sooner without.
 
ball bearing turbos run with only a tiny bit of oil (they have a 0.5mm restrictor iirc) so the oil plays no part in the cooling.

but all cars from the past few years have had watercooled turbos just to save trouble on warrenty claims and make them last longer for people who dont know how to look after turbos or cars in general.

also there is a lot of talk on weather ball bearing turbos do infact lower lag... personally I cant see it as most the lag is caused by inertia of the wheels rather then drag which is not much at all.

standard oil bearings are fitted to most cars used in motorsports even if they came with ball bearing turbos as they are MUCH better at handling high loads or excessive rpms (you cant anti-lag BB turbos!)
 
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