Tuning turbo time!

[arc]

Arc, the throttle body on a single TB setup is typically the last big restriction in the inlet track before the runners/inlet ports, this means it's having the biggest effect on the way air flows into & out of the plenum chamber. Also for minimum restriction of airflow you'll want a TB to be larger than the boost pipe. Yes a larger TB will push the torque further up the rev range but it'll also let you make more torque as an absolute figure at that higher rpm.

but if the air has come out of a 32mm2 hole, then fed into 32mm2 pipe and then fed into a 32mm2 hole that expands out into the plenum.. what benefit is a 40mm2 TB going to have? especially when you consider that 20 odd mm down the line it expands into the plenum anyway?

 

[Munkul]

a 32mm2 hole is a lot smaller than a 32mm dia hole

 

[arc]

leave me alone, it's been a long day

 

[StoneNewt]

but if the air has come out of a 32mm2 hole, then fed into 32mm2 pipe and then fed into a 32mm2 hole that expands out into the plenum.. what benefit is a 40mm2 TB going to have? especially when you consider that 20 odd mm down the line it expands into the plenum anyway?

it's more like
32mm Ø pipe > 32mm Ø with a piece of metal in it obscuring the air path & added turbulence > 32mm Ø pipe with disturbed airflow smoothing its self out > plenum

 

[craigb244]

erm this can go on for ever... the only way would be to flow bench every set up. as much as i would love to find out i dont have ££££ to spend... what i do have is loads of TB's... so once the map is done i can try each one and use my arse dyno to say what feels best.

 

[StoneNewt]

erm this can go on for ever... the only way would be to flow bench every set up. as much as i would love to find out i dont have ££££ to spend... what i do have is loads of TB's... so once the map is done i can try each one and use my arse dyno to say what feels best.

I was trying to explain why you want your TB to be a a bit bigger than the boost pipe dia and what a larger TB will do approximately.

As for the arse dyno, it's a very subjective & non-accurate measure... for seat of your pants power of all my manifolds the one that feels the most powerful was actually the weakest but due to it being hard to drive with it actually felt the most powerful, the current manifold I run conversely delivers the most controllable but weakest feeling delivery while managing to develop the most power & is a very close 2nd for peek torque.

 

[Munkul]

buy a Gtech

 

[craigb244]

thought about it... decided i would only use it once or twice then it will collect dust... aint there someone on here who bought one recently?

just been on the phone to the exhaust place... cars in tomorrow at 10!

 

[Munkul]

yeah... i got one, had it in the car a week, then took it out

in my defence its pretty pointless using it for timing when the roads are cold and wet though.

 

[randomizered]

I was seriously considering it, then changed my mind and have borrowed Aarons Hence how i know i can do 7.46 0-60 There's to be had from that as well!

I also think its not an item you will use all the time

 

[StoneNewt]

buy a Gtech

I'll take a DD2 Pro + does so much more

 

[craigb244]

I was seriously considering it, then changed my mind and have borrowed Aarons Hence how i know i can do 7.46 0-60 There's to be had from that as well!

I also think its not an item you will use all the time

fancy seeing if you can borrow it again some time in the future and we can try a few runs with each TB. it wont be the best but should answer our question

 

[randomizered]

I havn't returned it yet. I have some time off work around the 25th, so maybe then? PM me near the time

 

[Munkul]

I also think its not an item you will use all the time

yep, more of a thing used once in each car you have, or after every engine mod/tweak.

fancy seeing if you can borrow it again some time in the future and we can try a few runs with each TB. it wont be the best but should answer our question

as long as you can get good repeatability with timing runs, should be ok.

The DD2pro+ is about 3 times the price, so you would naturally expect it to be better

 

[Brooky]

Point is that we don't tend to like revy NA cars with nowt at the bottom end

Wash you mouth out

 

[Brooky]

i had to do loads of research on metals for college... thats why I say stainless is better.
stainless is a pretty poor conductor. while aluminium is a VERY good one (they dont make kitchen pots and pans, computer heat sinks, cylinder heads/radiators out of it for no reason)

Not sure on the Titanium. guess it will greatly depend on the type. if it is cheap then i guess it will only contain a small amount of titanium and bend pretty easy. but even then there are alloys that are VERY stiff. so unless you know the type you cant other then trying.

I dont have a clue on the type of titanium, apparently its coated with allsorts of fancy materials, and its by far not cheap. but its light, very light.:devil: the reason ill be using it.

Throttle bodies, im making ITBs for my revvy N/A, and probably a manifold with one big TB like john is making for my other project, which will be turbo'd

 

[allanhelen]

They are out there -- compare -- say, a VAD graph with one of the EVO cars.

But -- and Martin's car may be (as the most developed EVO car out there) a good example of why it can be better to move the torque peak along, maybe flatten it out.

Thanks for the concern
I have already trimmed the boost so that it doesn't really kick in until over 2250rpm but even so sudden full throttle at almost any speed in any gear even on the move will result in loss of traction. but after the LSD goes in and a bit of RR time hopefully that will be better

 

[fingers99]

Originally Posted by craigb244
i had to do loads of research on metals for college... thats why I say stainless is better.
stainless is a pretty poor conductor. while aluminium is a VERY good one (they dont make kitchen pots and pans, computer heat sinks, cylinder heads/radiators out of it for no reason)

But they make pots and pans out of stainless, too! The issue is also one of whether you want the heat dumped out of the pipe quickly, too. Stainless is fairly good at retaining it.

Originally Posted by craigb244
Not sure on the Titanium. guess it will greatly depend on the type. if it is cheap then i guess it will only contain a small amount of titanium and bend pretty easy. but even then there are alloys that are VERY stiff. so unless you know the type you cant other then trying.

It's free! While it is apparently coated with all kinds of bizarre exotics it welds pretty well (by Ti standards) after they have been removed, so I'd think it is very pure. When you put snips through it it feels somewhere between stainless and a high carbon steel (but not a fully tempered one, or the snips just wouldn't work). It smears strangely under the influence of the die grinder.

I may try welding up a tail can (patterned on a Jetex one) at the weekend if the Orange one behaves itself and decides to idle properly.

 

[Slosei]

thats why iv got the boost pipe NOT going over the engine or manifold:yum:
iv decided to have the new turbo moved more to the gear box side have the manifold ceramic coated, mainly cos in the old manifold small cracks are visible, and to balance the weight at the front
Zak

 

[craigb244]

But they make pots and pans out of stainless, too! The issue is also one of whether you want the heat dumped out of the pipe quickly, too. Stainless is fairly good at retaining it.

have you ever used a cheap stainless pot or pan???? there shocking they take AGES to heat up. mum bought some then took them back and bout another set that have a aluminium and copper insert at the bottom

but in all fairness i doubt what you make the VERY short induction from will effect power thats even noticeable on a dyno. so long as its not sitting on the manifold