Technical Still getting stuck in gear 😭😭😭

[sherbsville]

Hey everyone! Long time no see.

I was planning on starting to do things on bubbles next month, including digging out the mot advisories, but yeah...here we are.

For about 18 months, when the car gets hot, she gets stuck in gear. The only thing I can do, is stop and turn her off and on again. Obvs this sucks when it happens at speed.

Last year I posted asking for advice, and I changed the clutch slave cylinder. I've avoided long journeys, cos the clutch scares me. It has been fine...until now. I've recently done several 20-30 min journeys, and had a nightmare each time. Today I did a 15 min journey (it's hot out), and it happened. I had to coast into the carpark in neutral as couldn't change gear. I've had to come off the slip road in neutral too. Which is why I was too scared to see if changing the slave had fixed the issue...it hadn't.

I think the next thing I was told to try, was changing the master cylinder. How hard is that to do? Prior to doing the slave last year, I had no car maintenance experience. Taking the battery out was the worst bit. Does anyone have any tips for changing it, and good guides pls? I didn't change the connector bit, and still have some weird swirly straw shaped thing that came in the box with the slave. Idk what it's called.

Thankyou, and hope your're all well!

 

[chris3234]

Is this a manual box or the automatic?

 

[sherbsville]

Is this a manual box or the automatic?

manual.

 

[John202020]

The master is simple to replace, pull the clip wiggle pipe free, under dash pop off the master push rod remove the bolts and remove, simply reverse order to replace.
The only fly is, you need to remove the battery/tray again to allow you to bleed the slave, you've checked the connector under the passenger wing?
Bleed lots through like a 250ml bottle worth ish?
If you can select gears engine off without issue then it's a clutch or its control issue

 

[sherbsville]

The master is simple to replace, pull the clip wiggle pipe free, under dash pop off the master push rod remove the bolts and remove, simply reverse order to replace.
The only fly is, you need to remove the battery/tray again to allow you to bleed the slave, you've checked the connector under the passenger wing?
Bleed lots through like a 250ml bottle worth ish?
If you can select gears engine off without issue then it's a clutch or its control issue

nooooooooo, dont make me take the battery tray out again. whhhhhy?! thing is, i was thinking that this morning.i will need to bleed it. its soooo stoopid.

i havent checked the connector, but im not losing fluid.

oooh ok, that doesnt sound too bad. i have the bendy straw shaped thing that came with the slave. i havent actually looked at proper pics of the master one yet, but does it come with a new connector? i remember everyone said to leave the old one on when I did the slave, as it's a nightmare. i was thinking I'd put the new bendy straw thing on.

Yes, I can change gears fine with the engine off.

Thankyou!

 

[sherbsville]

I've just spent an hour and a half trying to find a vid or pics that shows how to do it. Does anyone have any that would help pls? The only vids I found were american, and they didn't have a separate clutch fluid reservoir.

Also, I've been looking up the part, and am confused by the connector that everyone says is hell. do I need to buy one seperately? Does it come with, and just isn't in the pics?

What's a reputable online shop? I will NEVER use halfords again. There's £40 price difference between some shops, and idk what's legit. I was gonna get luk, as the slave is luk.

Thankyou!

 

[sherbsville]

Found metal and plastic connectors if I need a new one. Which is better pls? ty. The man used this one in his vid.

 

[rmjbn1]

I'm sorry to hear a new slave didn't solve your problem.

If gear change is fine with engine off, and
If clutch fluid level is good,
Then I'd agree clutch master cylinder is the next obvious culprit.

Unless it's the clutch itself - pedal would typically start to feel heavier to operate if clutch is worn out. Pedal feel should be fairly light and constant throughout its travel.

I would only replace that connector if you're sure it's leaking.

General advice would be as above, to leave the pipes in place and connect a new master cylinder to the old pipe.

I haven't found a guide yet but will have a look.

Shop4Parts is good, discount code if you're donated to the forum, but they do have a threshold for free postage.

Otherwise I would use a local independent motor factors

 

[rmjbn1]

 

[John202020]

Remember once you've had something apart, it will come apart far more easily as you've done it before and the bolts are "loose" especially if you greased them before putting back, so come apart simply?

 

[AnthonyH]

I've never understood how a master cylinder fails? It just looks like a reservoir or bottle to me.

 

[AnthonyH]

Hey everyone! Long time no see.

I was planning on starting to do things on bubbles next month, including digging out the mot advisories, but yeah...here we are.

For about 18 months, when the car gets hot, she gets stuck in gear. The only thing I can do, is stop and turn her off and on again. Obvs this sucks when it happens at speed.

Last year I posted asking for advice, and I changed the clutch slave cylinder. I've avoided long journeys, cos the clutch scares me. It has been fine...until now. I've recently done several 20-30 min journeys, and had a nightmare each time. Today I did a 15 min journey (it's hot out), and it happened. I had to coast into the carpark in neutral as couldn't change gear. I've had to come off the slip road in neutral too. Which is why I was too scared to see if changing the slave had fixed the issue...it hadn't.

I think the next thing I was told to try, was changing the master cylinder. How hard is that to do? Prior to doing the slave last year, I had no car maintenance experience. Taking the battery out was the worst bit. Does anyone have any tips for changing it, and good guides pls? I didn't change the connector bit, and still have some weird swirly straw shaped thing that came in the box with the slave. Idk what it's called.

Thankyou, and hope your're all well!

Did you bleed the slave? It might be worth doing again before you change the master.

 

[rmjbn1]

Did you bleed the slave? It might be worth doing again before you change the master.

+1 I would start by bleeding the clutch.

Any air in the system will stop the clutch from fully disengaging, making it hard or impossible to change gear.

As John says, now you've had the battery tray out before it'll be much easier the second time

 

[jrkitching]

I've never understood how a master cylinder fails? It just looks like a reservoir or bottle to me.

I think you may be confusing the master cylinder and the master cylinder fluid reservoir.

The latter is indeed just a bottle, but the master cylinder contains a moving piston and seals; usually it is the seals which fail, allowing fluid to leak past the piston.

 

[AnthonyH]

I think you may be confusing the master cylinder and the master cylinder fluid reservoir.

The latter is indeed just a bottle, but the master cylinder contains a moving piston and seals; usually it is the seals which fail, allowing fluid to leak past the piston.

You are correct! I briefly googled and know the difference now.

I suppose the piston can get stuck, or leak.

Can't say i've ever seen one or know where they are!

 

[Ralf S.]

Hang on though.

If you can change gear with the engine off, then it's more likely a clutch problem.

I presume that when the gears get stuck you pump the pedal and that doesn't make any difference... Then switching the engine off allows you to change gear (select neutral). and it's fine for a while until it gets moody again?

If you had a moody master cylinder, then pumping the pedal would get some kind of reaction... and it would do exactly the same moodiness as soon as you started driving the car again. It doesn't know it has to be moody just sometimes and not others.

On the other hand, if your clutch pressure plate fingers are falling to bits, the release bearing can jam. Releasing it (with an engine off and putting it in neutral) gives it a chance to re-seat itself and if you're lucky it ends up on "good" pressure plate fingers, and it works again until it jams again.

How many miles has your clutch done? 500 clutches seem to fail from around 50,000 miles.. (town car = lots of gear changes) although 60k is more typical and some fellas can run them to 80k..

It's rarely the friction plate that wears out. Either the pressure plate fingers wear (worst case is that they start falling out of the bottom of your clutch bell-housing) *or* the release bearing wears out. Some clutch kits only come with the 2 plates.. and a garage in a rush/plucky amateur will not replace the release bearing if one is not supplied in the new clutch kit box. So... 90% it's your clutch, not the master cylinder.

If I'm unlucky.. then the master cylinder is easy to replace.

If it was me, I would replace the whole assembly including the Quick-Detach connector at the end. If you separated the connection joint when you fitted the slave, it should come undone (you "lift" the nylon collar and pull it apart.. easier off the car).

If you never fitted the QD connected to the slave, (just the slave using the old pipe and leaving the old QD connector untouched) you should still have it (new and shiny) so fit it now.

If the clutch still jams afterwards... *I told you it's the clutch*


Ralf S.

 

[John202020]

How many miles has your clutch done? 500 clutches seem to fail from around 50,000 miles.. (town car = lots of gear changes) although 60k is more typical and some fellas can run them to 80k..

It's rarely the friction plate that

If it was me, I would replace the whole assembly including the Quick-Detach connector at the end. If you separated the connection joint when you fitted the slave, it should come undone (you "lift" the nylon collar and pull it apart.. easier off the car).

our clutch is on 102,000, you're right the release bearing is complaining
When I did the slave I also did the master and all new pipework, note even brand new the quick connector is quite hard to get apart

 

[rmjbn1]

I agree, could be the clutch is worn out.

But would this be fine when cold then develop symptoms when hot?

From OP's previous thread, car was taken to a couple of garages for diagnosis and they couldn't find anything wrong.

Presumably garage would have noticed a release bearing complaining or worn out clutch?

Master cylinder also much easier to change than a clutch, especially DIY & on a limited budget.

There are complete pre-filled hydraulic systems for the clutch, bit more expensive, but a good way of being sure.

I still think my course of action would be:
1. Bleed clutch
2. Replace master cylinder (or whole system as suggested by Ralf)
3. Replace clutch

 

[rmjbn1]

Actually, that's a good point Ralf makes:

If you get a new master cylinder, it should (you might want to check) come with new pipe including one half of the qd connector.

So, as you still have the other half of new pipe (the weird swirly straw thing that came with your slave cylinder)...

...you'll then have complete new pipe to connect together

 

[The Panda Nut]

I hope you have not upset the O rings on a pipe end.That would cause a leak though. I have bled a panda clutch with the battery tray in place but its tight. Metal or plastic pipe connectors?? I would use either as its basically low pressure and not safety critical. My LUK master came pre filled with reservoir and top pipe. Take care if you change the reservoir. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN the reservoir fixing bolt and break it like I did!!