past an 08 Panda with a patch over the sill today
only seen 05 and 06 until now
only seen 05 and 06 until now
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General Sill 2008
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General Sill 2008
They're all starting to go gradually now unfortunately.
I sold my 2004 Punto at the beginning of 2016 when it started showing rust underneath, a short time late it appears to have been scrapped, 4+ years later (2004+4=2008) would stand to reason that cars of this age are showing the effects of time
They will rust out as cars these days are not well looked after by owners. how many do here saying they 'wax-oiled' their car this year, it used to be part of ownership once.
My 1995 Van is rust free underneath due to diligence by previous owners and myself, when I see others of the same year crumbling away.
Same goes for most vehicles, well looked after, wash polish, clearing drain holes and keeping surface corrosion at bay, they will go on for many years. ignore this and as soon as the manufacturers protection fails, tin worm takes over and will destroy your pride and joy in a very short time.
My 1995 Van is rust free underneath due to diligence by previous owners and myself, when I see others of the same year crumbling away.
Same goes for most vehicles, well looked after, wash polish, clearing drain holes and keeping surface corrosion at bay, they will go on for many years. ignore this and as soon as the manufacturers protection fails, tin worm takes over and will destroy your pride and joy in a very short time.
OP
OP
they rust from the inside outward
Cars like the Panda are designed to have an economically useful life of 12-15 years. It's not surprising that 12 year old cars are now showing signs of advanced corrosion. It's not just Fiats, either; most Mk1 Ka's have rusted out by now.
Back in the 1960's, many new cars were in a similar state after just 3-4 years.
IMO once a car has corroded to the point where the sills need plating, the car should be taken out of service. The work needed to restore an adequate level of crash protection once advanced corrosion has set in is simply not economic.
I remember a study done some years ago when they subjected a random sample of cars structurally repaired to MOT standard to the equivalent of an NCAP test. The results were both frightening and horrific; there's no way you'd have wanted to be inside one in a serious collision.
Even today, some accident repaired cars don't fare much better.
Back in the 1960's, many new cars were in a similar state after just 3-4 years.
IMO once a car has corroded to the point where the sills need plating, the car should be taken out of service. The work needed to restore an adequate level of crash protection once advanced corrosion has set in is simply not economic.
I remember a study done some years ago when they subjected a random sample of cars structurally repaired to MOT standard to the equivalent of an NCAP test. The results were both frightening and horrific; there's no way you'd have wanted to be inside one in a serious collision.
Even today, some accident repaired cars don't fare much better.
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I'd disagree. It depends entirely where the corrosion is. Outer sills are none loading bearing, so no issue if patched / repaired. As long as the inners are okay. When I done them on my 4x4 (issue found with a large rock finding the sill while off road and punching a hole in it rather than denting it) the inner sills (the structural load bearing bits) were absolutely fine.
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I Waxoyled the underside of my '70s Suzuki mudguards. 5 years later, the coating was dried up and rust was creeping over. It wasn't enough to matter but not good. I'm sure there are better products.
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Dinitrol for one.
But even Waxoyl will give you way better protection than nothing at all.
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OP
OP
I kind of agree with all the posts above.
The repairs I see aren't done by cutting the old rust out and new metal or new part sill let in.
Sticking metal over the rust hole isn't a safe repair in my opinion and yes I have done it.
front chassis legs are also normally starting with surface rust. I very much doubt the inner sills aren't far behind.
The repairs I see aren't done by cutting the old rust out and new metal or new part sill let in.
Sticking metal over the rust hole isn't a safe repair in my opinion and yes I have done it.
front chassis legs are also normally starting with surface rust. I very much doubt the inner sills aren't far behind.
May not be load bearing but it will fare very badly in side on collision especially if the rust is near door pillar
No it won't. This is my point. Outer sill has no structural load bearing. Chop it off an crash test the car and it'll perform the same. It's the inner sill that structurally load bearing.
If its not load bearing then it'll make very little difference in a crash as it's not part of the actual crumple zone. It's purely cosmetic, but welded into place rather than bolted.
If it was purely cosmetic, you wouldn't need to patch it for an MOT.
The real issue is that if the outer sills are that badly rusted, the whole bodyshell will most likely be significanlty weakened by corrosion elsewhere.
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I’ve mentioned this before on here. Watched a crash test on television some time ago, two identical cars, one brand new and the other three years older. The difference did indeed open my eyes, the older car fared worse than I would have imagined. Not a sign of rust anywhere but hidden metal weaknesses already setting in.
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It's always possible to make a safety case for buying the latest car. If you really want the ultimate then get a Tesla. https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/0...30000-miles-us-average-1-out-of-479000-miles/
Anyone driving a 13 years old Panda has already accepted they are not as safe as someone in bigger more modern car. That does not mean the car is rusty and dangerous, but it does mean we have to be vigilant for age related damage.
Anyone driving a 13 years old Panda has already accepted they are not as safe as someone in bigger more modern car. That does not mean the car is rusty and dangerous, but it does mean we have to be vigilant for age related damage.
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Erm, we are talking about old cars on here. I would be very surprised on how many people on here could afford a Tesla. Driving an ageing vehicle is what this thread is about..
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Our Seat had to be repaired for the MOT this year and I was half of a mind to scrap it on the spot. However the rot was at the extreme rear of the sill and not on a load bearing part. I gave the rear of the sills inner and outer a very hard time with a spiked hammer and could find no other signs of serious corrosion. The car like the Panda was galvanised when new and I was a bit miffed to find rust at all, but daughters don't look after cars and this one has been parked outside unloved for quite afew years. The cause appears to have been a cracked arch liner and a consequent build up of mud. I am satisfied that the repaired car is Ok to run for a year more at least.
I agree that the worm has however started its journey towards a scrap yard but it still looks almost new when cleaned and polished, it still goes and stops OK and its going to cost a small fortune to renew it once its day comes, so I have cleaned and repaired both sills and reapplied factory standard sealant to the entire area. It will shortly get rechecked after 3 months use. When it finally goes I will cut some holes open in the rusting zones and post pics . Will be interesting to see what its like!
I agree that the worm has however started its journey towards a scrap yard but it still looks almost new when cleaned and polished, it still goes and stops OK and its going to cost a small fortune to renew it once its day comes, so I have cleaned and repaired both sills and reapplied factory standard sealant to the entire area. It will shortly get rechecked after 3 months use. When it finally goes I will cut some holes open in the rusting zones and post pics . Will be interesting to see what its like!
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Erm, we are talking about old cars on here. I would be very surprised on how many people on here could afford a Tesla. Driving an ageing vehicle is what this thread is about..
That's the trouble with a throw away society.
all the vehicles i own (including Motorcycles) are between 36yrs and 10 years old, they are all road worthy, taxed and Mot'd. one of the oldest I still run on my 120 mile each way commute, I intend to keep my 11 year old panda going for as long as I can drive. its knowing when new turns to workhorse to classic and at what stage to invest more time caring for the vehicle and structure(which dosn't always mean expensive).
to buy a New vehicle is a bit like a student loan, you will end up being in debt for the rest of your life..............
