I have a 2008 Panda Dynamic 1.2, owned 3 three years, mileage 130,000. Clutch failed recently, local (trustworthy) garage replaced clutch. But now crunches when selecting reverse. Garage then replaced Master Cylinder, Slave Cylinder and pipework. But still crunches when selecting reverse. Occasionally it will engage smoothly, but there are no special conditions when this happens. Gearchange has always been smooth prior to the new clutch installation. Any ideas as to what is causing this? Has the garage damaged something when removing and refitting gearbox?
Technical 2008 Panda Gearchange issue
- Thread starter TerryF
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Technical
2008 Panda Gearchange issue
Clutch drag
If you wait until the wheel fully stop
Put the clutch pedal all the way to the foor, no carpet under the pedal
Wait 5 seconds
Does it still crunch
If it does the. Garage has messed up
We could try and diagnose it but at end of the day it's up to the garage to fix it
If you wait until the wheel fully stop
Put the clutch pedal all the way to the foor, no carpet under the pedal
Wait 5 seconds
Does it still crunch
If it does the. Garage has messed up
We could try and diagnose it but at end of the day it's up to the garage to fix it
A miracle cure! Easily and quietly goes into reverse after 5 seconds with the pedal down; it also makes it easier to get into first. I don't know why it works but I assume the new clutch needs bedding in? And will it gradually improve? Anyway, thanks Koalar that's saved me a few sleepless nights!
Best regards
We now know what the problem is
The friction plate is grabbing onto the flywheel too long after it been asked to be released
We have a work around by pausing it gives it more time to free itself
It's almost certainly not a hydraulic fault, nothing is ever 100% but it's pretty close
The first two causes that came to mind are
Too much grease on the input splines while it was fitted, which has been flung on to the friction plate
Which will probably burn off and eventually improve
The second is oil from the input shaft doing the same, and this will get worse
It's fairly easy to test for there's an inspection hole
If it's wet on the inside
@irc or @portland_bill may have some other ideas
The friction plate is grabbing onto the flywheel too long after it been asked to be released
We have a work around by pausing it gives it more time to free itself
It's almost certainly not a hydraulic fault, nothing is ever 100% but it's pretty close
The first two causes that came to mind are
Too much grease on the input splines while it was fitted, which has been flung on to the friction plate
Which will probably burn off and eventually improve
The second is oil from the input shaft doing the same, and this will get worse
It's fairly easy to test for there's an inspection hole
If it's wet on the inside
@irc or @portland_bill may have some other ideas
Had similar effects with cheaper clutch brands when there was a shortage of LUK after Brexit. (Even fitted a couple myself as there were few options available)
If pedal action feels OK and there is no goop in the inspection hole, then this could well be the cause.
Some improve with use, some don't seem to get any better.
Most people just put up with it as they don't want to pay again, and technically there is nothing wrong with the work that was done.
If pedal action feels unusually low then it could be clutch fork or bushes, but a "trustworthy local garage" would (or should) have fixed it (or at least mentioned it) when the box was off, and I'd be fairly surprised if they over-greased the splines, although it is possible. Same goes for checking the surface of the flywheel.
If pedal action feels OK and there is no goop in the inspection hole, then this could well be the cause.
Some improve with use, some don't seem to get any better.
Most people just put up with it as they don't want to pay again, and technically there is nothing wrong with the work that was done.
If pedal action feels unusually low then it could be clutch fork or bushes, but a "trustworthy local garage" would (or should) have fixed it (or at least mentioned it) when the box was off, and I'd be fairly surprised if they over-greased the splines, although it is possible. Same goes for checking the surface of the flywheel.
The centre plate (friction plate) should move freely on the gearbox shaft splines. This is normally checked during installation, and it would be disappointing if still fitted when sticky. However, it can be damaged as the gearbox is lifted into place. If the gearbox weight is allowed to hang on the centre plate, it will bend it. It will then flex continually in use and fail, usually spectacularly, within a few months.
If a cheap clutch was fitted, or a reconditioned one, it may just not be releasing properly.
If the cover assembly is dropped, it can detension the spring straps that hold the pressure plate to the diaphragm spring. This leads to drag when the pedal is pressed, as the pressure plate continues to touch the centre plate. Such droppage can occur anywhere from the production facility to the fitter. Good suppliers will exchange these without quibble, as it canot be proven where it was dropped.
Sometiimes a garage will get a new clutch, fit it, clean up the old one, and return it as 'not needed'. The supplier puts it back on the shelf, and the next purchaser does not notice. You and your garage, could be victims of this. Not common, but does happen.
The whole system should work immediately, little will change due to 'bedding in'. Make sure you have advised the garage of the problem. If still present after a week, it needs taking out and fixing, at their expense.
If a cheap clutch was fitted, or a reconditioned one, it may just not be releasing properly.
If the cover assembly is dropped, it can detension the spring straps that hold the pressure plate to the diaphragm spring. This leads to drag when the pedal is pressed, as the pressure plate continues to touch the centre plate. Such droppage can occur anywhere from the production facility to the fitter. Good suppliers will exchange these without quibble, as it canot be proven where it was dropped.
Sometiimes a garage will get a new clutch, fit it, clean up the old one, and return it as 'not needed'. The supplier puts it back on the shelf, and the next purchaser does not notice. You and your garage, could be victims of this. Not common, but does happen.
The whole system should work immediately, little will change due to 'bedding in'. Make sure you have advised the garage of the problem. If still present after a week, it needs taking out and fixing, at their expense.
OK thanks. I'll see what happens after a week, but will tell garage that all is pending.
Forgot to ask in earlier post...
The line "clutch failed" - was that clutch slipping, clutch pedal getting hard to press, or a "it just went suddenly" kind of failure?
As @portland_bill says, it should work to your satisfaction, but if you're going from, for example, a really heavy clutch pedal before, to a "barely need to touch it" clutch pedal after, it may help to understand the difference in "experience".
Conversely, a sudden-type failure may have caused other damage (which definitely should have been investigated by the garage), or excessive clutch slip may have "blued" the flywheel surface, again something that should have been investigated and possibly required action.
The line "clutch failed" - was that clutch slipping, clutch pedal getting hard to press, or a "it just went suddenly" kind of failure?
As @portland_bill says, it should work to your satisfaction, but if you're going from, for example, a really heavy clutch pedal before, to a "barely need to touch it" clutch pedal after, it may help to understand the difference in "experience".
Conversely, a sudden-type failure may have caused other damage (which definitely should have been investigated by the garage), or excessive clutch slip may have "blued" the flywheel surface, again something that should have been investigated and possibly required action.
Well, unless you were massively over-revving it on the way to the garage, it's unlikely to be damage making it crunch. 130k on one clutch is pretty fair (assuming it's the first one, of course).
Time to discuss it with the garage.
Time to discuss it with the garage.
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I would be suspicious of the gearbox input shaft seal. They go hard with age. Oil leaks along the shaft and gets thrown onto the clutch. Fiat made it hard to replace the seal but it can be done. A 2008 1.2 gearbox probably has the small input bearing which is known to run dry and further affecting the seal.
There's an easy check for that bearing. Run fully warmed engine engine at idle speed in neutral and listen for rattles. If the noise goes away when a helper presses down the clutch pedal, you have a problem with the gearbox input bearing. If no change - no worries.
There's an easy check for that bearing. Run fully warmed engine engine at idle speed in neutral and listen for rattles. If the noise goes away when a helper presses down the clutch pedal, you have a problem with the gearbox input bearing. If no change - no worries.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
I wouls say thats definitelyb a do it at the same time job after 30K. Especially as they are accessible. Good shout
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