Technical Panda 169 front sill corroded - MOT fail

[koalar]

No idea on this company but they are the cheapest new can find with a quichek search


Probably not worth the secondhand route last time I looked the cheapest was £150ish

You need to budget for some brake pipes as well

 

[AnthonyH]

No idea on this company but they are the cheapest new can find with a quichek search


Probably not worth the secondhand route last time I looked the cheapest was £150ish
View attachment 477110



You need to budget for some brake pipes as well

How long would it take a competent DIY mechanic to do this on a driveway?

 

[lukish]

Thank you very much Koalar. So welding a patch is really not an option then? :-(

 

[koalar]

How long would it take a competent DIY mechanic to do this on a driveway?

Depends on you equipment and skill, luck and so on

It should only be a few hours

But there will almost certainly be some problems on the way

With a few problem, it could still be done in a day, fingers crossed

But It the sort of job I would normally split, I would strip everything off first, see what needs replacing, I would clean and grease everything while waiting for the orders parts, reassembly is then pretty quick especially if you can rope someone in to help lift it back up, or you have two hydraulic jacks

 

[AnthonyH]

Depends on you equipment and skill, luck and so on

It should only be a few hours

But there will almost certainly be some problems on the way

With a few problem, it could still be done in a day, fingers crossed

But It the sort of job I would normally split, I would strip everything off first, see what needs replacing, I would clean and grease everything while waiting for the orders parts, reassembly is then pretty quick especially if you can rope someone in to help lift it back up, or you have two hydraulic jacks

No doubt i'd split this into a few weeks lol.

Whats the likely issue with brake lines?

@lukish​

Patching it up isn't an option in my opinion, sadly, its just too far gone. If patched while its on the car - it wouldn't be strong/rigid enough. And if you could get it strong enough by patching that'd require it coming off the car. And if its off the car, just replace it. Its worth getting more opinions though, i'm no welding expert...

 

[lukish]

Any idea of the cost to have it done by a mechanic?

 

[koalar]

No doubt i'd split this into a few weeks lol.

Whats the likely issue with brake lines?

@lukish​

Patching it up isn't an option in my opinion, sadly, its just too far gone. If patched while its on the car - it wouldn't be strong/rigid enough. And if you could get it strong enough that'd require it coming off the car. And if its off the car, just replace it.

Yes brakes, you can cheat there a coupling halfway down under a plastic guard, then replace everything

Here's how I deal with rusty brakes

https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/koalar-random-thoughts.503176/post-4721929 it does require a good quality brake flare spanner that fits nice and tight

Stub axle studs and they can be corroded in, a gentle, tapping with something very heavy like a sledge hammer

 

[AnthonyH]

Yes brakes, you can cheat there a coupling halfway down under a plastic guard, then replace everything

Here's how I deal with rusty brakes

https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/koalar-random-thoughts.503176/post-4721929 it does require a good quality brake flare spanner that fits nice and tight

Stub axle studs and they can be corroded in, a gentle, tapping with something very heavy like a sledge hammer

A lot of good stuff in those posts, bookmarked.

 

[AnthonyH]

Any idea of the cost to have it done by a mechanic?

£600 for a new one.

Maybe they'd patch it, you'd have to ask if it'd be MOT worthy.

 

[koalar]

Any idea of the cost to have it done by a mechanic?

Half a day ramp time, plus parts

Unfortunately it's not going to be cheap

Garages vary a lot, someone might be desperate for the work, the best thing is to phone around, my guess is over £500 someone on here got a garage to modify and fit an axle to a 100hp can't seem to find the thread to find out how much they were charged,

 

[irc]

... It the sort of job I would normally split, I would strip everything off first, see what needs replacing, I would clean and grease everything while waiting for the orders parts, reassembly is then pretty quick especially if you can rope someone in to help lift it back up, or you have two hydraulic jacks

Definitely.
Assume all brake pipes (including flexis) will need replacing, along with at least some hub studs and nuts. If you have to mangle a few to get them off, it can be a pain to find replacements in a hurry.
Also, you will need to transfer the brake pipe stand-off clips (without breaking them), or find other suitable methods for supporting the brake pipes.
If your rear brakes are anything other than perfect (shoes, cylinders and back plates) it might be worth trying to get a complete better set from a scrap yard. I have come across a few Pandas where the back plates are disintegrating around the holes where the retaining pins go.

After the first couple i was involved in threw up some unexpected problems, I decided the risk of something delaying progress was too high, so from then on I have built up complete assemblies (up to and including the brake pipes as far as the join under the passenger seat) before starting the replacement.
It then becomes a simple meccano job (8 bolts and 2 brake pipes) and brake bleed, with no delays, leaving me with a pile of spare parts to sort through ready for the next one.
It also has the advantage that I can sub-contract the actual replacement to a local garage if my ramp is unavailable.

 

[koalar]

Thank you very much Koalar. So welding a patch is really not an option then? :-(

Missed this one

Yes it can be welded, but it's likely to cost way more

There is an option to get a donor axle and cut the spring pans off and swap them for the rusted out ones

But there three major hurdles I see, a decent secondhand one is nearly £100, finding and cost of a competent welder and fabricator, alignment

Where as a new axle is £115 delivered to your door

I prefer to repair than just throw new parts on, but in this case it doesn't not appear to be the cost effective route this time

 

[irc]

I don't think my MOT tester would pass it unless it was an invisible repair - despite having had repaired beams pass some years ago (not on Pandas, admittedly)
Apparently now "welded repairs" to suspension components are a fail.
I will check the MOT regs when I get a chance, but he's never steered me wrong before.

 

[AnthonyH]

So welding a patch is really not an option then? :-(

I checked MOT regulations and welded patches to cover the holes would be an MOT fail.

The exception has been highlighted by Koalar - "where the original part was assembled by welding". i.e. the pans are welded to the axle.

So you could buy another axle, cut the pans off it and weld those to the old axle. But its just not worth it, so you're going to need another axle.

What are you going to do?

Send it to a garage? Have a go yourself?

 

[koalar]

I don't think my MOT tester would pass it unless it was an invisible repair - despite having had repaired beams pass some years ago (not on Pandas, admittedly)
Apparently now "welded repairs" to suspension components are a fail.
I will check the MOT regs when I get a chance, but he's never steered me wrong before.

Correct

Learnt something new today

Comes under suspension etc

He not steered you wrong

Also looks like 4x4 with rotten rear subframes are now scrap, we had a few patched in the past

 

[jrkitching]

Any idea of the cost to have it done by a mechanic?

If you're not able to change the rear beam yourself, then I'd strongly suggest you scrap this car.

The amount of work that will be needed just to get it to the point where it would pass an MOT is just not worth it for the amount of useful life you'd likely be adding to this car. Even if you manage to get it through this year, there's no guarantee it'll pass next time.

From the pictures you've posted, I think this one is just too corroded to be worth trying to save. There will almost certainly be a lot more rust in the box sections you can't see, and if you had a serious crash in it, there's a fair chance this car would kill you. IMO it's not worth either the expense or the risk.

Sorry if this comes across as negative, but I think it needs to be said.

 

[AnthonyH]

@lukish​

Before doing anything else you need to go through the car with a fine toothcomb and find every bit of corrosion.

Post more pictures of what you find.