Seems no-one reads the manual any more.....

[portland_bill]

huge speedo just incase the one behind the wheel isn't enough

The MINI was designed to mimic the original, so the speedo was placed centrally. This was done on the original mini to save cost as it works for right and left hand drive. This was common to lots of vehicles until we decided that having it in front of us was easier to see at a glance, leaving more time to keep our eyes on what was developing outside, that might bite us! Many vehicles now place the speedo in the centre, selling it as a feature, when it is actually a cynical cost-saving point. The extra digital readout in the MINI is to avoid lawsuits from people crashing while looking at the central speedo instead of where they are going.

the car uses the phone as it's internet connection so facebook data is pulled from the facebook app, twitter from the twitter app

You'll have to work hard to convince me that this is necessary for the proper function of the vehicle. We need fewer distractions in the car, not more.

post a tweet, .... such as "its 23degrees C and i'm driving in my mini" or "driving in my mini and we have 3.2 gallons of fuel left"

Critical stuff! Glad you and the recipients are really concentrating on the road ahead.

I can't see tablets or smart phones actually replacing the in care dash

So its only a toy then.

 

[AndyRKett]

if you go for an integrated sat nav the central speedo is deleted however you then get a second analog speedo fitted next to the rev counter, well if you get done for speeding you can't say you weren't warned.

Maybe on the older cars but all the newer ones are the same as mine above the satnav just appears on the screen in the middle and you still keep the giant speedo

 

[StevenRB45]

Maybe on the older cars but all the newer ones are the same as mine above the satnav just appears on the screen in the middle and you still keep the giant speedo

Ok very probably as tbh I find mk1 (which I recall had only one speedo) and mk2 binis interchangeable, however if they continue along the same lines with the mk3 version it'll have both a digital and analog fuel gauge, a clock, a sun dial, and also a digital clock.

 

[AndyRKett]

The MINI was designed to mimic the original, so the speedo was placed centrally. This was done on the original mini to save cost as it works for right and left hand drive. This was common to lots of vehicles until we decided that having it in front of us was easier to see at a glance, leaving more time to keep our eyes on what was developing outside, that might bite us! Many vehicles now place the speedo in the centre, selling it as a feature, when it is actually a cynical cost-saving point. The extra digital readout in the MINI is to avoid lawsuits from people crashing while looking at the central speedo instead of where they are going.

this i know in addition many cars are moving to central speedos on top of the dash usually digital read outs the large dial is supposed to be a retro throw back not the main speed read out hence the digital dial

You'll have to work hard to convince me that this is necessary for the proper function of the vehicle. We need fewer distractions in the car, not more. ~



Critical stuff! Glad you and the recipients are really concentrating on the road ahead. ~



So its only a toy then.

of course none of this is necessary for the proper function of the car its all gimmicky / toy, but i will say that posting tweets facebook updates etc takes no more distraction than changing the radio station or resetting the trip computer.

the point is that Sludgeguts said about putting a tablet on the dash as a reconfigurable display for all the cars functions, this is to show that many manufactures are already building highly integrated technology in to cars, the ferrari 458 has colour displays which swap info about depending how you have it set up and the S-class mercs have essentially one big screen which can be configured in a multitude of different ways.

my point is in the future cars will have the technology built in but will rely of features of smart phones to provide additional functionality in a safe easy to manage system. where as having a tablet as i said above you could be playing games on it while traveling on the motor way or watching youtube.

the mini system uses the phone but once plugged in you don't have to touch the phone for all the features mentioned above to be available so less likely to get teenages who do use facebook twitter etc driving dangerously trying to do things on their phone

 

[StevenRB45]

Going away from warning lights.

It would be possible to take multi function displays far further than they are now very easily but its a question of safety. It would be entirely possible to replace the instrument panel in its entirety with a colour screen that could then be configured to display whatever you want, a recreation of a stack rev counter and a digital speed read out for when you're feeling sporty, your sat nav if you're lost, a normal dash for those who don't give a crap...you could even do what Renaults r link does when you can select an engine sound to pipe through the speakers and perhaps combine that with the gauges. So have a picture of a classic 911 dash in front of you, while the stereo plays in a throttle position and rev matched flat 6 sound track.
But it's a safety nightmare, if its that configurable what's to stop someone hacking it so all their car displays while they drive along is cat videos from youtube..or porn. Or perhaps it could be hacked maliciously to display the wrong speed...

 

[portland_bill]

Or perhaps it could be hacked maliciously to display the wrong speed...

I think this is happening already. Most of the other road users I encounter appear to have a different speed readout than mine, judging by their different interpretation of the limits.

 

[sludgeguts]

my point is in the future cars will have the technology built in but will rely of features of smart phones to provide additional functionality in a safe easy to manage system. where as having a tablet as i said above you could be playing games on it while traveling on the motor way or watching youtube.

the mini system uses the phone but once plugged in you don't have to touch the phone for all the features mentioned above to be available so less likely to get teenages who do use facebook twitter etc driving dangerously trying to do things on their phone

So, manufacturer replaces the dash with a tablet - they are obviously going to leave all its functions intact so that whilst it is sat in the dock on the dash, you can also play angry birds/watch cat videos on YT while you are hurtling along the motorway.
Yeah, of course this is going to happen.

I imagine certain safeguards will be put in place to block certain features when the device's gps detects motion.

BTW. What's to stop these idiots playing call of duty on their smartphones whilst driving at 70mph+?

 

[sludgeguts]

But it's a safety nightmare, if its that configurable what's to stop someone hacking it so all their car displays while they drive along is cat videos from youtube..or porn. Or perhaps it could be hacked maliciously to display the wrong speed...

Like everyone thought it was a great idea to have remote keyfob entry, start etc until someone discovered that a cheapo tv remote control watch thingy was able to 'learn' these codes & the thieves could then come back later & help themselves :devil:

I imagine there would be some collaberation between the tablet (BTW, I say 'tablet' but imagine what will be used will be the auto industry equivalent) and the car's onboard computer. Maybe to be used in conjunction with keyless start?
Maybe the car can only start if the dash is docked, the keyfob is in the car AND the body computer has 'scanned' to make sure the dash AND keyfob's essential files are as they were when last used?

 

[StevenRB45]

If it were to be done, and all displays went digital not just the stereo, ancillary equipment (eg suspension settings and heated seats) and sat nav functions as is the norm on high end cars I wouldn't see the screen for the dials being removable. This would lead to all sorts of weird and wonderful new problems. Not being able to drive home cos someone has nicked your tablet for example, also if it does all the high end tabletty things and is not just a screen and is easily removable you couldn't effectively leave your dash board in the car for fear an oik would steal it as while gauges not attached to a car have little value a high end touch screen tablet is worth having.

 

[AndyRKett]

if talking about tablets you need to consider who is going to make them, Apple? samsung or some other android based system. and How big?
Once you've done this you have to design the car to accommodate it, some way of securing it in the car in a dock or holder.
Once you've done that the decision is set in stone ten years later you'll still need a ten year old tablet to fit the car.

As for locking out features when in motion via GPS, this would make the tablet a bit useless to use on the bus/train/walking round the house.

Really puts a downer on going out for an evening if you have to carry a phone set of keys and a great big tablet around with them not really compatible with the tiny handbags and lack of pocket that most women have on a night out.

as StevenRB45 pointed out someone nicking your tablet is going to render the car useless but also if you drop it while getting out or something you'll suddenly find your car immobile and face a £500+ bill to get it going again which in an older car is going to effectively right it off

Historically car manufactures have tried to steer away from having removable radio fronts which are comparatively cheap, I can't see they will want to trust the whole security and functionality of the car to a very expensive piece of technology that can be easily stolen, damaged, hacked etc

 

[sludgeguts]

if talking about tablets you need to consider who is going to make them, Apple? samsung or some other android based system. and How big?
Once you've done this you have to design the car to accommodate it, some way of securing it in the car in a dock or holder.
Once you've done that the decision is set in stone ten years later you'll still need a ten year old tablet to fit the car.

As for locking out features when in motion via GPS, this would make the tablet a bit useless to use on the bus/train/walking round the house.

Really puts a downer on going out for an evening if you have to carry a phone set of keys and a great big tablet around with them not really compatible with the tiny handbags and lack of pocket that most women have on a night out.

as @StevenRB45 pointed out someone nicking your tablet is going to render the car useless but also if you drop it while getting out or something you'll suddenly find your car immobile and face a £500+ bill to get it going again which in an older car is going to effectively right it off

Historically car manufactures have tried to steer away from having removable radio fronts which are comparatively cheap, I can't see they will want to trust the whole security and functionality of the car to a very expensive piece of technology that can be easily stolen, damaged, hacked etc

What's with this fixation about 10 year old tablets?
The tablet thing was simply an analagy, I had already said about my thread regarding using my smartphone as a digital dash (post #20 ) (which was https://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lounge/316165-better-dashboard.html) and
"I imagine there would be some collaberation between the tablet (BTW, I say 'tablet' but imagine what will be used will be the auto industry equivalent)..."

Yeah, what a great idea, let's all dust off our old spectrum to run the car!

The car would come fitted with the 'dash' (OK, not calling it a tablet anymore) The 'dash' is preconfigured to your car & only your car - in much the same way as a keyfob & key etc are programmed to your car. maybe the car comes with operating system pre loaded onto CD, along with the special codes for your car (like a windows PC) - so 'dash' breaks, buy a new one & use the CD to reload the operating system (or app or whatever), enter the long authentication code & away you go?
So, when you sell the car, the 'dash' is sold with it.
When you buy a new car, it comes with a new 'dash'.
If it breaks during the meanwhile, a new 'dash' would simply be configured to your car via the barcodes in your handbook (Or similar - much like the keys & fobs at the moment)
The new 'dash' will be able to display all the crap as shown in the image http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rd-lights.html
But will be configurable - to a degree.
It might have some internet capabilities - perhaps to stream music from your cloud box thingy or internet radio - BUT NOT to watch driving porn or play angry call of bird duty.
It will probably have built in satnav app (maybe via a one-off fee to your fave satnav company or free android (Or similar) satnav app.
It might have auto emergency call in case of accident/breakdown (iirc, one of my old dashcams had this function - bluetooth to phone & auto call from G sensor info - had to shut that one off as it flashed up over every pothole:bang:.

Also, you talk about the price of a new tablet just to get your car going, how many people lose or break their keys & end up paying hundreds for replacement?
If most/all manufacturers went this route, the tab- sorry, 'dash' would be cheap as chips - you can pick up an android tablet for around £50 with the latest operating system, faster processors are a touch dearer.
It might be that a breakdown company could 'loan' a new 'dash', which would get you home. You could prove car ownership by paying for the rental with your credit card/pin number & this rental 'dash' would only allow you to see basic info - speed, fuel, indicators, fault codes.

And as for "carrying a great big tablet around..." Would manufacturers not utilise all that space they have just gained - by taking out all the old clocks, the radio etc - to create a secure 'cubby' wherein the 'dash' can be stored on a pivoting mount? As you walk away from the car, the fob goes out of range, the cubby closes & locks & the alarms set (or something like that).

 

[sludgeguts]

This is why I said tablet

I have had the exact same ELM unit connected to the OBDII port in my 500 for 6 months, the power draw is so low you never need to unplug it (Ok if you are going away for a couple of weeks may be wise to), but not necessary

I left my car at the airport with it still plugged in for 2 weeks and it started no problem when I got back, so in normal use I cant see the need for a switch,

The Torque software is very good and for as its only a couple of quid its a real bargain.

I have a 7" Nexus tablet on the dashboard as a display which is great for speed and all the other displays.

perhaps manufacturers would go back to a dashboard resembling the original mini (a couple of shelves!) - but instead of the one great big clock, have a digital [something that resembles a tablet but isn't a tablet] 'dash'

 

[sludgeguts]

Perhaps one day, a car will be left/right hand drive using an xbox controller?
with the 'dash' in the middle so it can be viewed from either seat?

(got the idea from james Bond's BMW 750iL in 'Tomorrow Never Dies' ?)

 

[AndyRKett]

What's with this fixation about 10 year old tablets?
The tablet thing was simply an analagy, I had already said about my thread regarding using my smartphone as a digital dash (post #20 ) (which was https://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lounge/316165-better-dashboard.html) and
"I imagine there would be some collaberation between the tablet (BTW, I say 'tablet' but imagine what will be used will be the auto industry equivalent)..."

Yeah, what a great idea, let's all dust off our old spectrum to run the car!

The car would come fitted with the 'dash' (OK, not calling it a tablet anymore) The 'dash' is preconfigured to your car & only your car - in much the same way as a keyfob & key etc are programmed to your car.
So, when you sell the car, the 'dash' is sold with it.
When you buy a new car, it comes with a new 'dash'.
If it breaks during the meanwhile, a new 'dash' would simply be configured to your car via the barcodes in your handbook (Or similar - much like the keys & fobs at the moment)
The new 'dash' will be able to display all the crap as shown in the image http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rd-lights.html
But will be configurable - to a degree.
It might have some internet capabilities - perhaps to stream music from your cloud box thingy or internet radio - BUT NOT to watch driving porn or play angry call of bird duty.
It will probably have built in satnav app (maybe via a one-off fee to your fave satnav company or free android (Or similar) satnav app.
It might have auto emergency call in case of accident/breakdown (iirc, one of my old dashcams had this function - bluetooth to phone & auto call from G sensor info - had to shut that one off as it flashed up over every pothole:bang:.

Also, you talk about the price of a new tablet just to get your car going, how many people lose or break their keys & end up paying hundreds for replacement?
If most/all manufacturers went this route, the tab- sorry, 'dash' would be cheap as chips - you can pick up an android tablet for around £50 with the latest operating system, faster processors are a touch dearer.
It might be that a breakdown company could 'loan' a new 'dash', which would get you home. You could prove car ownership by paying for the rental with your credit card/pin number & this rental 'dash' would only allow you to see basic info - speed, fuel, indicators, fault codes.

And as for "carrying a great big tablet around..." Would manufacturers not utilise all that space they have just gained - by taking out all the old clocks, the radio etc - to create a secure 'cubby' wherein the 'dash' can be stored on a pivoting mount? As you walk away from the car, the fob goes out of range, the cubby closes & locks & the alarms set (or something like that).

So you propose something which is coded only to that one car, limited in its function to just car stuff. some degree of configuration, able to display all the lights on the daily mail article and could be locked away inside the dashboard to prevent it being stolen

once you start locking the thing away inside the car you might as well just stick with the current system of built in systems

why do I keep talking about 10 year old cars? well a car built ten years from now is going to have much better technology available so its unlikely a tablet made ten years from now would be compatible with today's cars, so break your 10 year old tablet/dash then you're faced with an expensive repair bill for something thats not been made in years

Yes keys are expensive to replace but I've dropped my keys dozens of times without them ever breaking, dropping a tablet isn't going to fair so well

 

[sludgeguts]

So you propose something which is coded only to that one car It's a blank canvas, the coding would be done by the manufacturer/garage, limited in its function to just car stuff. Yeah, so idiots can't play call of warfare birds or watch kitty porn at 70mph - and car stuff like displaying any and every function from the body computer - speed, diagnostics, plus internet radio/stream music from your cloud storage, satnav - maybe even some google capability? some degree of configuration, able to display all the lights on the daily mail article It wouldn't need to display all the lights - just flag 1 warning triangle in the corner of the screen, leaving you to checkout the problem at the roadside or at home - depending on what that problem is (like carrying your own code reader) and could be locked away inside the dashboard to prevent it being stolen

once you start locking the thing away inside the car you might as well just stick with the current system of built in systems Except a digital 'dash' would be far more configurable. It could be centrally mounted on a moveable arm - so suited to left or right hand drive (but I already said that) and this adjustment would make the whole screen more visible - much of my current dash is hidden behind the steering wheel (I cannot see the indicator lights, the relay is whisper quiet & the mechanism doesn't do a good job of cancelling the indicator) & the speedo is hard to read accurately since it only shows 20, 40, 60, 80 mph etc (with tiny markings to indicate speeds inbetween at 2mph increments)

why do I keep talking about 10 year old cars? well a car built ten years from now is going to have much better technology available so its unlikely a tablet made ten years from now would be compatible with today's cars, I still like to play chips challenge on my Win 7 laptop (and that was designed for win 3.1 (?) back in the early 90s. My ancient Archos 7" player still manages to play newly downloaded films. The USB3.0 on my PC still accepts my very old USB MP3 player - old and new computer stuff can still work.so break your 10 year old tablet/dash then you're faced with an expensive repair bill for something thats not been made in years Again, the new dash would be a blank canvas - rather like building your own PC. Once built, you then decide on the operating system of your choice. Would a new system using the latest multicore processor etc not be able to run windows 98?. IF (for example) the industry were to go down the tablet route, why would a replacement be expensive? If they decided it was to be a specific item & used the same product in every car, the unit cost would be a few pounds due to mass production.
We are already seeing some co-operation with the introduction of the OBD port. What happens to your modern car in 10 or 15 years time if it has to go in for diagnostics? Will the garage say "sorry, it's too old for our modern equipment? No, I reckon a diagnostic machine in 2030 will have some reverse compatibility for today's OBD port - or maybe there will simply be an adapter - like the one I use to plug my android phone into an iphone dock on a stereo.

Yes keys are expensive to replace but I've dropped my keys dozens of times without them ever breaking, dropping a tablet isn't going to fair so well

Then again, if the 'dash' is in a mount inside a reasonably secure cubby, you wouldn't ever need to remove it, and if you ever did, you'd be very careful with it - in much the same way as you wouldn't be gormless with your laptop. As I said - in the text you conveniently forgot to highlight - "As you walk away from the car, the fob goes out of range, the cubby closes & locks & the alarms set (or something like that)." (and the tech is already out there to perform those actions.