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Panda (Classic) SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica).
- Thread starter pandamonius_maximus
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OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Ah ok, will look it up for one of the other fleet! Discount sounds cool. :slayer:
Now, the car.....
I beleive, that the running problem this car had was due to valve timing. I spent aaaaages checking and double checking and got the timing marks lined up. Ignoring previous markings and looks like it was one tooth out.
It now idles very well, and there seems to be less/no hesitation when operating the throttle. But I have scared myself silly doing this job (I hate cambelts - and its only my first one) so will take me some time to gain faith in my work.
Fingers crossed its problem solved. Will take it down to the garage for someone to check over once ive tweaked the timing.
Anyway, time to chill and forget about it for a moment.
Si
Ah ok, will look it up for one of the other fleet! Discount sounds cool. :slayer:
Now, the car.....
I beleive, that the running problem this car had was due to valve timing. I spent aaaaages checking and double checking and got the timing marks lined up. Ignoring previous markings and looks like it was one tooth out.
It now idles very well, and there seems to be less/no hesitation when operating the throttle. But I have scared myself silly doing this job (I hate cambelts - and its only my first one) so will take me some time to gain faith in my work.
Fingers crossed its problem solved. Will take it down to the garage for someone to check over once ive tweaked the timing.
Anyway, time to chill and forget about it for a moment.
Si
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
need more pics
need more pics
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Timing out a tooth could do it. Be great if that's what it is. I hope we can meet up at SCR sometime this summer. I'll bring my UT along.
Timing out a tooth could do it. Be great if that's what it is. I hope we can meet up at SCR sometime this summer. I'll bring my UT along.
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Sounds like a plan, I hope to have the car ready for next week so summer should be ok. Just going to take me some time to get confidence back and also to iron out some of the last few kinks.
Look forward to seeing the UT too, dont really see many of them about. Is it going to be as quick as mine?
Si
PS i still havent had my run at SCR as I didnt get one last time. Do you just state your name at the ticket desk and they'll dig out the records?
Sounds like a plan, I hope to have the car ready for next week so summer should be ok. Just going to take me some time to get confidence back and also to iron out some of the last few kinks.
Look forward to seeing the UT too, dont really see many of them about. Is it going to be as quick as mine?
Si
PS i still havent had my run at SCR as I didnt get one last time. Do you just state your name at the ticket desk and they'll dig out the records?
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Having turbo cars does bring a larger element of skill and probably much more varied times due to grip/lag issues. There will be a lot of technique to get mine to move off the line at a decent pace! I could see you out dragging me on 1/8 mile due to aforementioned, but I am expecting it to do 14s or something. I hope to have Imprezzas in my sights.
I would defo ring ahead about claiming a run. Probably no formal procedure for such a thing, but I can't help really.Sounds like a plan, I hope to have the car ready for next week so summer should be ok. Just going to take me some time to get confidence back and also to iron out some of the last few kinks.
Look forward to seeing the UT too, dont really see many of them about. Is it going to be as quick as mine?
Si
PS i still havent had my run at SCR as I didnt get one last time. Do you just state your name at the ticket desk and they'll dig out the records?
Having turbo cars does bring a larger element of skill and probably much more varied times due to grip/lag issues. There will be a lot of technique to get mine to move off the line at a decent pace! I could see you out dragging me on 1/8 mile due to aforementioned, but I am expecting it to do 14s or something. I hope to have Imprezzas in my sights.
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
14's ay, that sounds quite interesting getting to fast and furious levels I think I might be in the 15's or perhaps I am getting ahead of myself. It was shockingly quick before I (possibly) sorted its running problem though. Perhaps I'll do a 0-60 to get an idea before hand.
I would defo ring ahead about claiming a run. Probably no formal procedure for such a thing, but I can't help really.
Having turbo cars does bring a larger element of skill and probably much more varied times due to grip/lag issues. There will be a lot of technique to get mine to move off the line at a decent pace! I could see you out dragging me on 1/8 mile due to aforementioned, but I am expecting it to do 14s or something. I hope to have Imprezzas in my sights.
14's ay, that sounds quite interesting getting to fast and furious levels
I think I might be in the 15's or perhaps I am getting ahead of myself. It was shockingly quick before I (possibly) sorted its running problem though. Perhaps I'll do a 0-60 to get an idea before hand.
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
OK well gone for a quick test run and spluttery problem remains but seems to run better marginally. Very odd that the timing being out wasnt the main cause but I havent tweaked the ignition timing yet so perhaps the dizzy just needs some adjustment. It is as I first positioned it when putting the cam belt back on at the moment so could be wrong. Timing is governed by the ignition module of course but if the rotor arm is not where it needs to be I guess this may cause problems. Anyway, just tweaking now hopefully.
In other news (lol), Booked in for its new exhaust build on thursday. So MOT a'OK on the way....
I am going to need a holiday after all this.
Will tidy some things up and grab some photo's of the car so far...
Cheers,
Si
OK well gone for a quick test run and spluttery problem remains but seems to run better marginally. Very odd that the timing being out wasnt the main cause but I havent tweaked the ignition timing yet so perhaps the dizzy just needs some adjustment. It is as I first positioned it when putting the cam belt back on at the moment so could be wrong. Timing is governed by the ignition module of course but if the rotor arm is not where it needs to be I guess this may cause problems. Anyway, just tweaking now hopefully.
In other news (lol), Booked in for its new exhaust build on thursday. So MOT a'OK on the way....
I am going to need a holiday after all this.
Will tidy some things up and grab some photo's of the car so far...
Cheers,
Si
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Ok, still got a problem. But it does seem to be more predictable now.....
Basically it will run ok at first, but after driving for a bit (quicker if i use more right foot), it will splutter (backfire sometimes) and cut out for a couple of seconds with no responce from the throttle atall.
Once its kicked back in it will run very rough and have no power when trying to pull away and will stall at idle.
Then its a case of stopping, and leaving it for a bit and starting and stopping a few times before it comes back to normal again.
This cycle repeats but when it cuts out seems to be triggered by use of the right foot again (although I did manage to get the car to work again once without restarting but by revving it up a couple of times while standing).
Possible causes:
1) Carb floats poorly adjusted so starving it of fuel.
2) Seal on the carb gone as mentioned before (finally got my carb service kit so will go through carb service tomorrow)
3) Maximum pressure safety switch (designed to cut the engine out if the boost pressure goes too high) could be faulty and is cutting out randomly.
4) Again could be fuel pressure regulator - will order one when I have ruled out carb service and float position check
5) Over boosting, or loss of compression? But loss of compression surely cant be intermittant?
6) Fuel vapour lock - or some kind of problem from fuel getting too hot perhaps
This is all I can think of really.
Some clues:
Engine seems to get hot very fast and gets quite hot judging by the length of time the fan stays on for.
Also, its running lean ( plugs are quite light in colour - one more than the rest) which explains why its running hot too and why I am sure its a fueling issue.
Any thoughts guys, thought it best to get a second opinion before I lay into it tomorrow. Just quite concerned as the engine seems to be cooking itself.
Thanks for any help in advance, I am a bit stuck.
Si
Ok, still got a problem. But it does seem to be more predictable now.....
Basically it will run ok at first, but after driving for a bit (quicker if i use more right foot), it will splutter (backfire sometimes) and cut out for a couple of seconds with no responce from the throttle atall.
Once its kicked back in it will run very rough and have no power when trying to pull away and will stall at idle.
Then its a case of stopping, and leaving it for a bit and starting and stopping a few times before it comes back to normal again.
This cycle repeats but when it cuts out seems to be triggered by use of the right foot again (although I did manage to get the car to work again once without restarting but by revving it up a couple of times while standing).
Possible causes:
1) Carb floats poorly adjusted so starving it of fuel.
2) Seal on the carb gone as mentioned before (finally got my carb service kit so will go through carb service tomorrow)
3) Maximum pressure safety switch (designed to cut the engine out if the boost pressure goes too high) could be faulty and is cutting out randomly.
4) Again could be fuel pressure regulator - will order one when I have ruled out carb service and float position check
5) Over boosting, or loss of compression? But loss of compression surely cant be intermittant?
6) Fuel vapour lock - or some kind of problem from fuel getting too hot perhaps
This is all I can think of really.
Some clues:
Engine seems to get hot very fast and gets quite hot judging by the length of time the fan stays on for.
Also, its running lean ( plugs are quite light in colour - one more than the rest) which explains why its running hot too and why I am sure its a fueling issue.
Any thoughts guys, thought it best to get a second opinion before I lay into it tomorrow. Just quite concerned as the engine seems to be cooking itself.
Thanks for any help in advance, I am a bit stuck.
Si
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
oooh, that sounds spookily familiar, grumbleweed developed exactly the same symptoms the other day after we'd been pratting about with the carb. Don't rule out running too rich, I'd swapped a 105 main jet for a 130 I found in a box of bits so it would have been suppin' on lotsa juice. Swapped that back out for a 110 and it's settled down now (although I've still got to sort out the rough idling) Symptoms sound like icing up in the carb so don't know if over fuelling maybe makes it more prone to that??
oooh, that sounds spookily familiar, grumbleweed developed exactly the same symptoms the other day after we'd been pratting about with the carb. Don't rule out running too rich, I'd swapped a 105 main jet for a 130 I found in a box of bits so it would have been suppin' on lotsa juice. Swapped that back out for a 110 and it's settled down now (although I've still got to sort out the rough idling) Symptoms sound like icing up in the carb so don't know if over fuelling maybe makes it more prone to that??
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Its got to be lean though with white spark plugs. If it was running rich then they would be all sooted up. Also running hot is a classic sign of lean mixture. But carb does seem most likely, I will also do a compression test tomorrow in case something odd is going on there though. Want to put my mind at ease!
I might check the jets are correct though, could have been put in the wrong way round by the previous keeper. If none of these suggestions work though I can allways get someone to look at it for me. Allways better to fix it myself I think.
Si
Its got to be lean though with white spark plugs. If it was running rich then they would be all sooted up. Also running hot is a classic sign of lean mixture. But carb does seem most likely, I will also do a compression test tomorrow in case something odd is going on there though. Want to put my mind at ease!
I might check the jets are correct though, could have been put in the wrong way round by the previous keeper. If none of these suggestions work though I can allways get someone to look at it for me. Allways better to fix it myself I think.
Si
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
The jets are correct for the standard car. I even went to the trouble of buying new emulsion tubes as one or more looked a tiny bit scuffed and I thought mixture wasn't right. The thing is that the turbo is not standard, so perhaps the jets need changing. I just don't understand how it was ever working properly for the person that did all the mods on it in that case though.
The jets are correct for the standard car. I even went to the trouble of buying new emulsion tubes as one or more looked a tiny bit scuffed and I thought mixture wasn't right. The thing is that the turbo is not standard, so perhaps the jets need changing. I just don't understand how it was ever working properly for the person that did all the mods on it in that case though.
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Ah ok, I wasnt sure about the turbo. Would explain why it goes so quick when it goes!! Do you have any information on the turbo its got? I cant remember if it was written on some of those old receipts.
Ok so this in mind, the maximum boost switch could be the problem? Or perhaps the fuel regulator is not broken but isnt allowing enough fuelling for the new setup. An adjustable one could help here perhaps - of the correct type suitable for turbo carbs of course.
Do you know if the cam has been modified too? I have a feeling it has. I supose I really should have been asking these questions a while ago!! hahaha!!! I will check the jets in the spare carbs too. maybe the jets that suit the car werent switched over? That would be convienient.
More clues to the puzzle!
Si
Ah ok, I wasnt sure about the turbo. Would explain why it goes so quick when it goes!!
Do you have any information on the turbo its got? I cant remember if it was written on some of those old receipts.Ok so this in mind, the maximum boost switch could be the problem? Or perhaps the fuel regulator is not broken but isnt allowing enough fuelling for the new setup. An adjustable one could help here perhaps - of the correct type suitable for turbo carbs of course.
Do you know if the cam has been modified too? I have a feeling it has. I supose I really should have been asking these questions a while ago!! hahaha!!! I will check the jets in the spare carbs too. maybe the jets that suit the car werent switched over? That would be convienient.
More clues to the puzzle!
Si
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
There's an invoice from Turbo Technics somewhere. I don't know anything else about the engine.
There's an invoice from Turbo Technics somewhere. I don't know anything else about the engine.
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Oh well, thought I should check. Will hopefully get the car to its MOT tomorrow afternoon and then I can drop it off at the engineering place that did the work on my abarth engine. They tune carbs and might have a better idea than me of what is wrong.
I think perhaps the the person responsible for the mods had just used the choke to increase the mixture tbh. I have serviced the carb and adjusted the floats which were wrong as per the workshop manual.
Will get there soon anyway. Going to have a go at fitting the tachometer now.
Si
Oh well, thought I should check. Will hopefully get the car to its MOT tomorrow afternoon and then I can drop it off at the engineering place that did the work on my abarth engine. They tune carbs and might have a better idea than me of what is wrong.
I think perhaps the the person responsible for the mods had just used the choke to increase the mixture tbh. I have serviced the carb and adjusted the floats which were wrong as per the workshop manual.
Will get there soon anyway. Going to have a go at fitting the tachometer now.
Si
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
I have an MOT!!! YAYAAAA that makes up for the fact it doesnt work properly!! hahaha.
I have dropped it off with some specialists so fingers crossed they will find out what is wrong. They tune carbs so should be able to figure it out a lot easier than me!
Perhaps a pint is in order :devil:
Si
I have an MOT!!! YAYAAAA that makes up for the fact it doesnt work properly!! hahaha.
I have dropped it off with some specialists so fingers crossed they will find out what is wrong. They tune carbs so should be able to figure it out a lot easier than me!
Perhaps a pint is in order :devil:
Si
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Well done Simon
I hope that the specialists will at least find the problem if not fix it for you
This is some car!
Well done Simon
I hope that the specialists will at least find the problem if not fix it for you
This is some car!
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Thanks, certainly feel better now the car is MOT'd. Just hope they fix it before too much damage is done. Running lean is turbo engine cancer
Not much is going to happen for a while though, not looking at it till saturday. So I am going to have some time off!!
Si
Well done Simon
I hope that the specialists will at least find the problem if not fix it for you
This is some car!
Thanks, certainly feel better now the car is MOT'd. Just hope they fix it before too much damage is done. Running lean is turbo engine cancer
Not much is going to happen for a while though, not looking at it till saturday. So I am going to have some time off!!
Si
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Good news Si, have one for me.
Good news Si, have one for me
.
OP
OP
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
Holla!!
Got the car back from Maynards in Stroud and am much happier. We spent the whole afternoon looking over it and they found a few things out. There is a fuel delivery shut off valve and it was starving the float chamber of fuel. Probably the wrong one for this car or broken. Anyway, with that removed and blanked off and it doesnt cut out anymore. But it does seem to be struggling to get fuel at times and there is still a missfire so will need a larger needle valve we think.
Lewey, the jets were not right either and have been drilled out for now but will take it back to get the correct jetting. Its no longer running rediculously lean so I feel I can tinker without risking blowing it up now :slayer:
There is an ignition fault too somewhere. When observing the strobe light the ignition was skipping beats!! The guys were saying this looked like what a rev limiter does, taking the timing out of phase. But I expect its likely to be another reason. Perhaps something to do with the distributor. They have asked me to check the rota arm and check the spark isnt tracking. Its a new rotor arm but I have been told by a few people that it is a common fault.
Anyway, enough of the bad stuff...
I have also to discover what power it is developing. Certainly more than I had expected tbh. 135bhp and 150 lb ft torque. And its not running right still, and have been told it could be 150bhp. This sounds a bit too much from 1049cc to be honest!! Overwhelmed actually, but will be very careful with that much power in such a light car.
Here are the power / torque curves:
Holla!!
Got the car back from Maynards in Stroud and am much happier. We spent the whole afternoon looking over it and they found a few things out. There is a fuel delivery shut off valve and it was starving the float chamber of fuel. Probably the wrong one for this car or broken. Anyway, with that removed and blanked off and it doesnt cut out anymore. But it does seem to be struggling to get fuel at times and there is still a missfire so will need a larger needle valve we think.
Lewey, the jets were not right either and have been drilled out for now but will take it back to get the correct jetting. Its no longer running rediculously lean so I feel I can tinker without risking blowing it up now :slayer:
There is an ignition fault too somewhere. When observing the strobe light the ignition was skipping beats!! The guys were saying this looked like what a rev limiter does, taking the timing out of phase. But I expect its likely to be another reason. Perhaps something to do with the distributor. They have asked me to check the rota arm and check the spark isnt tracking. Its a new rotor arm but I have been told by a few people that it is a common fault.
Anyway, enough of the bad stuff...
I have also to discover what power it is developing. Certainly more than I had expected tbh. 135bhp and 150 lb ft torque. And its not running right still, and have been told it could be 150bhp. This sounds a bit too much from 1049cc to be honest!! Overwhelmed actually, but will be very careful with that much power in such a light car.
Here are the power / torque curves:
Re: SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica)
I thought you were expecting about 85 bhp, which is standard y10 turbo power, so I guess this engine isn't standard then?
I thought you were expecting about 85 bhp, which is standard y10 turbo power, so I guess this engine isn't standard then?
