General Rubber belt cvt gearboxes and washing machines - The thread ;-)

[Bernievarian]

... Interestingly I also notice that whilst motor pulley is a grooved pulley - like an alternator pulley - the drum pulley is smooth
and flat, no grooves, drives by friction on the inside of the belt. That surprised me.

Hi Jock, made this new thread so we can leave the pissing contest going on its own way with politicians would bees, while sharing and enjoying our good old memories. Anyone warmly welcome to join !!

The reason for the multigrooved washing machine pulley is to allow very small belt bending (would 'wraping' be correct ?) radius, and still offer a significant pulley to belt contact surface to avoid slipping, where it's obviously not needed @ the drum side, thanks to its big Ø ...

BRs, Bernie.

 

[portland_bill]

Great start to a thread, well done. We await someone poking it with a sharp stick.

Washing machines.
Other than Bosch and Miele, most are from the same factory in Italy (Merloni ?). All as rubbish as each other.
I've not had to replace a pump for some time now, the printed circuit boards have a shorter life then any mechanical components. Usually cheaper, and so much quicker, to buy another, than to have a repair.
The last one, one printed circuit board gave out, advised that both should be replaced together as they damage each other. Quote, around £300, with a 2-3 week wait.
New machine delivered next day (AO.com) for less than £200. And cheaper than the monthly 'insurance' warranties.

Older machines could have two wheels at the back. Lift the front a little, and wheel it out of its hole. Now we have to walk them out, risking severe injury. It was recommended to me to place it on a sheet of hardboard, to enable an easy slide. That didn't work.

Belt drives.
Started in the motor trade in 1972, school holidays, weekends. Small garage was a DAF car dealer, so got to know the cars and transmissions well. They could be very quick if driven properly, although most owners would never explore the performance. My 1108 DAF 66 would go very well, showing 97mph on the speedo on occasion. The Marathon model was quicker, as were the later 1300s. I've still got the thick feeler gauge for correct belt adjustment, somewhere.

 

[varesecrazy]

My Grandad always drove Auto's

So had a 33 and 66 in my memory

Last one failed overtaking a line of 'slow' traffic
Around 80mph uphill on an A road

I recall the volvo (renault?)340
Saw one 3 cars up in a scrapyard

Unshielded 6" wide belts front to rear
An odd sight then ..and now

 

[Maybemaybenot]

I tend to go for the £50 from Gumtree washing machines. Had two in the last 12 years so working out so far. A Bosch, now a Daewoo! Hopefully not jinxed now.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I recall the volvo (renault?)340
Saw one 3 cars up in a scrapyard

Unshielded 6" wide belts front to rear
An odd sight then ..and now

I don't think the belts where quite as you remember but terrifying non-the-less

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHlGM6P8IA8

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I've been very busy today. First off Mrs J had to go to the Doc for her regular blood test sample to be taken. I was feeling stressed out about this but it turned out to be very well organized. Talk into a speaker at the surgery door - that's new. What was previously a manual door is now automated so it opens itself and then the inner door does the same. I stayed outside whilst Mrs J went in. Computer check in by touch screen disabled, now check in with staff at the desk - just like it was years ago, very civilized! Phlebotomist, all masked, visored and gowned up, took her straight in without her going into the waiting room and she were out on the street again within 5 minutes without having touched anything! Very impressed.

I have a supply of good quality disposable masks I bought for spray painting and, although we don't wear them all the time Mrs J elected to wear one and plastic gloves for this visit. The Phlebotomist was very impressed and said he believed we should all be wearing them!

Then My older boy rang to say he'd done our big shop for us so we jumped in the car and went over to his house to collect. We don't have any contact, plastic gloves on and he puts the bags at the end of his path then goes back to stand on his front doorstep whilst we pick up. We then have a bit of a chat with us at the kerbside and them on their doorstep. It's very hard to be so close to them, especially my wonderful young grandson, and not give him a hug and slip him some sweeties!

A very disturbing thing happened on our way back through town though. With very few cars in evidence I was doing the 20 mph thing when a very new Mondeo came up fast behind with a large Hyundai SUV behind him. The Mondeo went screaming past on the wrong side of the road and the Hyundai shot past on my left side (2 lane bit of road). By the time we got to the next lights they were out of sight. Why?

Anyway, just finished wiping the packages with bleach wipes and putting the supplies away and having our meal. Come across this thread so thanks for starting this thread Bernie and for explaining about the multi V belt.

I absolutely "get" what you are saying about circuit boards PB. The main reason why we had a new boiler when the kitchen was done -10/12 years ago now - was because the circuit board in the old one failed during the makeover and the price of repair was "silly"

As you know PB, I also worked in a wee family owned (as most were) DAF garage. When I started the boss drove a 55 Marathon which he replaced with a 66 Marathon. The 66 was definitely more civilized but I preferred the 55 all day long.

When I first started I got very distracted with the use of that pulley distance guage. It was really almost impossible to get both pulleys gap'd the same. Then the foreman said "c'mon sonny, (I felt a bit miffed at that as I'd been married for 5 years and had a son already!) I'll show you how it's done" He put the car up on the 4 poster and dropped the belt guards. Got hold of the car and "threw it" at the ramp stops at one end. It bounced back from them to the rear stops and then came to rest above us. "Now, just by eye, see if the smaller of the two gaps is roughly the same as the guage" if it is, you're done. If not, adjust it and remember to "walk" the car back and forward each time you do so the belts can resettle. Worked a treat and I never used the guage again. We also had to look at the side of the belts for them breaking up and check to see both pulley gaps were roughly equal. If there was a really noticeable difference in the gaps the car would pull to one side at low speed.

Charlie, I remember the boss being shocked when returning from a DAF dealer event somewhere and telling us he'd seen a 66 badged up as a Volvo! Wasn't long after that they revealed the takeover. We never sold the Volvo versions (complicated story) and the boss took on Polski Fiat. Oh deary deary me! the less said about that the better!

Maybemaybenot, We've only had one microwave our entire married life. bought from the first Lidl store we ever shopped in back in 1998 and Mrs J still has the reciept and guarantee safely squirreled away. Guess what? it's a Daewoo!

Must stop now, Mrs J has just found a Montalbano episode we've not watched on catch up! As always, kindest regards to you all. Jock

 

[portland_bill]

I absolutely "get" what you are saying about circuit boards PB. The main reason why we had a new boiler when the kitchen was done -10/12 years ago now - was because the circuit board in the old one failed during the makeover and the price of repair was "silly"

Our boiler was fitted in November 1995, and is still working well.
It had to have the inner flue tube replaced due to corrosion. This had upset teh pressure sensors, so the associated relay block had to be replaced too. Just over £100, done by a local plumber. That was a few years back now.
Then more recently the fan motor seized. Got one off Ebay, fitted it myself in an hour or so. It is only the gas stuff we should not touch, the mechanical and plumbing stuff is fine. Nothing as complex as under the bonnet of a car these days.
Sadly, the seizing motor had upset the relays on the circuit board, so it would then start up, run the fan for a few seconds, then fire up the flames, and immediately turn it all off again. Not much heat to the water then.
An internet search showed it as a common problem, a result of the seizing motor.
Choices:
1. Send circuit board away for repair, turnaround 5 days. Cost £60
2. Order reconditioned board, pay surcharge, refundable on return of old one. Delivery, 2-3 days. Cost the same £60 after surcharge refunded.
3. Drive 8 miles to the plumbase distribution centre (just luckily local) and get a brand new genuine potterton one. £148.
Weather cold, near freezing actually, no other heating apart from one fan heater and an electric fire.
So we paid the money, went for a drive. 45 minutes round trip. Fitted and working within 20 minutes of arriving home.

Washing machine circuit boards though - no diagnosis structure, no easy source for replacements, scrap the machine.

Got hold of the car and "threw it" at the ramp stops at one end. It bounced back from them to the rear stops and then came to rest above us. "Now, just by eye, see if the smaller of the two gaps is roughly the same as the guage" if it is, you're done. If not, adjust it and remember to "walk" the car back and forward each time you do so the belts can resettle.

We had a pit. Always did belts over the pit, always rolled the car back and forth to settle the belts.
Did my own 66 adjustment. Rear end on stands, just roll the wheels to settle the belts. Have to roll both wheels together, so lying under the car, arms outstretched, easy to pull muscles. Luckily don't have any!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Portland Bills post re boilers brings to mind our old boiler. That pre dated circuit boards by at least 25 years and died beauase the lower bearing in the fire pot was made of something like bakerlite which eventually gave up. I suspect that boiler was 40 to 50 years old when it was finally dumped. It go fairly temperamental and refued to light up. The routineended up as
1. Switch on allow the motor to run for 10 seconds to dump a load of parafin
in the fire pot.
2. Switch off
3. Remove front cover
4. Undo great big brass wingnut and remove front inspection cover,
5. place a sheet of new paper in the fire pot
6. Rapidly replace the inspection panel
7. Replace the front cover
8. Switch on
9. Leg it to safe distance

Mostly after this it would go for the rest of the day without and issues. Its final swan song was to blow the front panel / cover back off with a fairly large explosion after the missus had done the routine while I was off and away. I think she ran it too long before adding the newspaper.... On return I was instructed to stop being a miser and buy a new one.... Suffice to say the new one used half the oil or less. It must be getting on for 20 now and has so far been OK just a regular service each year. I think I get more like my Dad as I get older. Normal folk just replace things like this.

 

[varesecrazy]

I don't think the belts where quite as you remember but terrifying non-the-less

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHlGM6P8IA8

That video only shows front end.. with the mounts for a coverpanel

The ones I saw were rear axle and forward.. ALL BARE

LONG time ago though

Similar era I saw the Strada with all the Bosch gubbins.. so long ago I cannot recall what it was for.. it would coast

The Golf of the same idea was slagged off by Chris Goffey driving around Oxford..

'Beardy topgear..'

 

[PuntoHowTo]

That video only shows front end.. with the mounts for a coverpanel

Nope that’s the back of the car, note which side of the wheels the mud guards are on.

There are plenty of other videos showing the same thing but basically there was a normal drive shaft leading up to the front pair of pulley wheels/gear wheels (I have no idea what you call them) the bands are not very long but they are stupidly thick in some of the videos I found

 

[Bernievarian]

... Washing machine circuit boards though - no diagnosis structure, no easy source for replacements, scrap the machine ...

Older generation PCBs were quite simple and going down to the component wasn't a big deal. At that time, the relays logic and cam programmers was kind of limitating the device possibilities (and therefore its complexity).
The basics hasn't change since, but the logic and programing has been stuffed in a tiny µ-chip and power contactors been replaced by Mosfets or Triacs.

I've been repairing tons of those PCBs and I can tell the issues are always(ish) located at the same component(s). Most of the time a quick visual inspection will already give you an hint of where to investigate further: brownish area is sign of excess heat; as the cicuits are generally not under-dimensioned, they shouldn't overheat, so we face here a possible weak soldering point, or relay's internal contact getting bad. Capacitors are also good candidates as they don't age very well. Of course, things are not always that simple, but usually the default has a single cause.

Internet or repair café's and a good dose of common sense should help you Guys to save a bunch of money, so you can pamper your other half with nicer things than new white goods ...

BRs, Bernie.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Older generation PCBs were quite simple and going down to the component wasn't a big deal. At that time, the relays logic and cam programmers was kind of limitating the device possibilities (and therefore its complexity).
The basics hasn't change since, but the logic and programing has been stuffed in a tiny µ-chip and power contactors been replaced by Mosfets or Triacs.

I've been repairing tons of those PCBs and I can tell the issues are always(ish) located at the same component(s). Most of the time a quick visual inspection will already give you an hint of where to investigate further: brownish area is sign of excess heat; as the cicuits are generally not under-dimensioned, they shouldn't overheat, so we face here a possible weak soldering point, or relay's internal contact getting bad. Capacitors are also good candidates as they don't age very well. Of course, things are not always that simple, but usually the default has a single cause.

Internet or repair café's and a good dose of common sense should help you Guys to save a bunch of money, so you can pamper your other half with nicer things than new white goods ...

BRs, Bernie.

That's interesting Bernie. I doubt if my electronic ability would be up to that though. On reflection I think I was probably poorly advised on the need for a new boiler. The plumber who did the pipework on our new kitchen was seldom there at the same time as our friend the kitchen fitter so our friend was never involved with the boiler decision. Perhaps he would have advised me differently?

The old boiler was a Potterton Neta Heat and I've just come across this:https://ignite-heating-spares.mysho...a1YTaF9IUJ4ZEbvjuYqHqOzCnSFJ45vxoCxbMQAvD_BwE which looks, from what I remember of it, like the part we needed. On the other hand the Potterton was nearly 20 years old and had also suffered a main gas valve problem the year before so probably wouldn't have been reliable. We now have a Worcester Bosch which is very much more economical with the gas but looks much more complicated on the occasions I've seen it with it's front off for servicing.
regards
Jock

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Great start to a thread, well done. We await someone poking it with a sharp stick.

Washing machines. New machine delivered next day (AO.com) for less than £200. And cheaper than the monthly 'insurance' warranties.

Older machines could have two wheels at the back. Lift the front a little, and wheel it out of its hole. Now we have to walk them out, risking severe injury. It was recommended to me to place it on a sheet of hardboard, to enable an easy slide. That didn't work.

Dear PB, after all the acrimony on that other thread, your first comment on here, for some reason, struck me as very funny. I'm now waiting, with great anticipation, the arrival of said person with "pointy stick".

"insurance" warranties (correctly quoted by you in parentheses) was something we gave up many years ago. Despite the hawkers of such schemes claims, you never save money in the long term. The wee local guy will usually repair for far less than the long term cost of your "insurance".

Those older machines with the two wheels at the back were a very good idea. I really can't see why they stopped it? can't be saving much by doing so? However our new kitchen, with it's built in units, is going to be a whole new "ball game" if I have to ever remove one - especially as the laminate flooring that Mrs J insisted upon - after the kitchen was installed - ends just under the front of the units thus forming a very nice wee lip which the unit's feet are, I just know, not going to want to easily ride over!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Capacitors are also good candidates as they don't age very well.

As posted a few days ago in the what made you smile thread, I recently repaired my living room sound bar which had randomly stopped working with little warning, refused to power on. It is 6years old so was going to chuck it and get a new one, but as we’re in lockdown decided to give it a look.

Was immediately obvious two caps had expanded on the power supply, so jumped on eBay. Spent less than £5 on some new high end capacitors which arrived in a couple of days. Replaced the two that had gone and the thing was working fine again. Just counting the replacement parts I actually used. The total cost of repair was about £1.50. Got some spares in case it ever happens again. had been eyeing up a £380 replacement, so realistically I did save myself quite a lot of money

Even to have replaced like for like would have been about £160.

When I was a kid my parents had one of the first combi boilers. The pcb in that was forever going wrong. I remember it looking like a prototyping breadboard by the time my parents came to sell the house, worryingly they never, ever had the boiler serviced. But when they wanted to move they had to get a gas safety Certificate, therefore the dodgy boiler finally got scraped.

 

[Maybemaybenot]

I've been repairing tons of those PCBs and I can tell the issues are always(ish) located at the same component(s). Most of the time a quick visual inspection will already give you an hint of where to investigate further: brownish area is sign of excess heat; as the cicuits are generally not under-dimensioned, they shouldn't overheat, so we face here a possible weak soldering point, or relay's internal contact getting bad. Capacitors are also good candidates as they don't age very well. Of course, things are not always that simple, but usually the default has a single cause.

Internet or repair café's and a good dose of common sense should help you Guys to save a bunch of money, so you can pamper your other half with nicer things than new white goods ...

BRs, Bernie.

A couple of years ago I bought an older amplifier that was top of the range when new & about £2500. All metal weighs about 15kg with lovely fluted heatsink sides & a copper coated chassis. It was sold as spares as it would power up to a degree but no sound. Cost me £10 plus a little postage as was a shop with fixed rates lol!
Once taken apart (boy could you see where the money went) 2 minutes with a soldering iron fixed the obvious dry joint on the HV circuit and it's been perfect ever since.

 

[portland_bill]

A couple of years ago I bought an older amplifier that was top of the range when new & about £2500. All metal weighs about 15kg with lovely fluted heatsink sides & a copper coated chassis. It was sold as spares as it would power up to a degree but no sound. Cost me £10 plus a little postage as was a shop with fixed rates lol!
Once taken apart (boy could you see where the money went) 2 minutes with a soldering iron fixed the obvious dry joint on the HV circuit and it's been perfect ever since.

As it is an amplifier, your neighbours may not describe it as 'perfect'. They would probably have preferred it as it was when received.

 

[Maybemaybenot]

As it is an amplifier, your neighbours may not describe it as 'perfect'. They would probably have preferred it as it was when received.

Fortunately I have my own postcode

 

[portland_bill]

Dear PB, after all the acrimony on that other thread, your first comment on here, for some reason, struck me as very funny. I'm now waiting, with great anticipation, the arrival of said person with "pointy stick".

That's what I was aiming at, made me smile again with your highlighting it. So far, peaceful.

 

[chris3234]

That's interesting Bernie. I doubt if my electronic ability would be up to that though. On reflection I think I was probably poorly advised on the need for a new boiler. The plumber who did the pipework on our new kitchen was seldom there at the same time as our friend the kitchen fitter so our friend was never involved with the boiler decision. Perhaps he would have advised me differently?

The old boiler was a Potterton Neta Heat and I've just come across this:https://ignite-heating-spares.mysho...a1YTaF9IUJ4ZEbvjuYqHqOzCnSFJ45vxoCxbMQAvD_BwE which looks, from what I remember of it, like the part we needed. On the other hand the Potterton was nearly 20 years old and had also suffered a main gas valve problem the year before so probably wouldn't have been reliable. We now have a Worcester Bosch which is very much more economical with the gas but looks much more complicated on the occasions I've seen it with it's front off for servicing.
regards
Jock

I assume it's one of those newfangled combi boilers?

They are much more complex then older types partly as they combine most of the partsinto the boiler


Olders one that heat a tank of water have pump's control valves ect separate in from the main boiler unit

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I assume it's one of those newfangled combi boilers?

No it's not chris. We did think about a combi but then remembered the troubles my youngest boy had with one in a flat he rented - It wouldn't hold pressure and every time it did this it stopped working. Then, shortly before our kitchen was done, our next door neighbour had a combi fitted to replace his old Potterton gravity system and they had leaks all over the place - apparently the combi runs at much higher pressure. So we kept our hot water tank and gravity system just added a new condensing boiler. It's been ok except for a pipe blockage in the recirculatory system which meant taking down some of the kitchen and utility room roofs. I've also added a proper 1.5 bar pumped shower as the gravity system doesn't give enough pressure for a vigorous shower. I like that I can easily replace the circulatory pump, zoning valves etc myself if they ever give trouble. Even the shower pump will be easy enough to do.

I am very lucky in that the chap who does my yearly maintenance is very friendly and doesn't mind me watching what he's doing and asking questions. One thing which quite surprised me is that every year he partially dismantles the condensing system and flushes out what looks like sandy deposits. He told me that if you don't do this the condensing system can eventually block up and then the boiler will shut down. He also said many service contracts don't include this and "extra" money can be made from then attending the subsequent "breakdown" - and no, he's not using it to charge me any extra for servicing. In fact he charges slightly less than a couple of local companies I rang to get a feel for what it should cost.

Next door still has ongoing problems with their combi and the one in the flat was never properly sorted out in the 18 months my boy lived there. I think what we've got will do just fine.