Renewing brake pipe/flex? How to stop master cylinder reservoir draining

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

In college I was taught, when doing brake hydraulics, to block possible leaks from open pipes by pinching off the flex hoses. This works quite well but I've always been uncomfortable with doing this and maybe causing damage to the hose, especially if it has to be left on for any length of time (or if the hose is quite old) perhaps while you wait for a part. Then I learned to put a crisp packet over the master cylinder filler and screw the top down tight over it. In theory the vacuum so created stops fluid leaking and actually it works quite well and is useful when you are changing the flex hoses themselves. Works better on some than others depending on the design of cylinder reservoir. However it can still leak slowly over an extended time and with modern ABS brakes the last thing you want is air getting into the ABS module. So here's a wee tip many of you more experienced folk will know but probably those who haven't worked on vehicles professionally won't. Rather than describe it in words I'll just post this video:



Remember not to push the pedal down much more than half way to avoid pushing the seals into a part of the cylinder where it wouldn't go in normal operation as doing so can damage the seals.

Edit. Why a crisp packet? I hear you all asking. Because for some reason brake fluid doesn't seem to "melt" the plastic they are made from.

 

[bugsymike]

Of course some of us already have the propriety tool as in video I picked this up at a bodyshop auction, it's fully extends and is useful to hold accelerator pedal at certain revs etc. also I have seen similar uses at MOT Stations when doing certain smoke tests.
Re the brake pipe clamps, I recall a boss lending a clamp to a good customer , who later came back complaining about it damaging the pipe, he was using it on the metal pipe!!!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Of course some of us already have the propriety tool as in video I picked this up at a bodyshop auction, it's fully extends and is useful to hold accelerator pedal at certain revs etc. also I have seen similar uses at MOT Stations when doing certain smoke tests.
Re the brake pipe clamps, I recall a boss lending a clamp to a good customer , who later came back complaining about it damaging the pipe, he was using it on the metal pipe!!!

Aye Mike, assuming folk know what they are doing on cars is very dangerous! Just one of the reasons I pretty much don't lend tools.

PS. I don't have one of those tools but I do have a selection of wooden poles which I use. I've seen the metal tool used and often thought about getting one. probably too late now though as I'm definitely in decline as far as physical powers are concerned and I've managed fine with the poles for years!

 

[The Panda Nut]

In college I was taught, when doing brake hydraulics, to block possible leaks from open pipes by pinching off the flex hoses. This works quite well but I've always been uncomfortable with doing this and maybe causing damage to the hose, especially if it has to be left on for any length of time (or if the hose is quite old) perhaps while you wait for a part. Then I learned to put a crisp packet over the master cylinder filler and screw the top down tight over it. In theory the vacuum so created stops fluid leaking and actually it works quite well and is useful when you are changing the flex hoses themselves. Works better on some than others depending on the design of cylinder reservoir. However it can still leak slowly over an extended time and with modern ABS brakes the last thing you want is air getting into the ABS module. So here's a wee tip many of you more experienced folk will know but probably those who haven't worked on vehicles professionally won't. Rather than describe it in words I'll just post this video:



Remember not to push the pedal down much more than half way to avoid pushing the seals into a part of the cylinder where it wouldn't go in normal operation as doing so can damage the seals.

Edit. Why a crisp packet? I hear you all asking. Because for some reason brake fluid doesn't seem to "melt" the plastic they are made from.

I was going to suggest cling film or a mechanics glove.

 

[bugsymike]

Aye Mike, assuming folk know what they are doing on cars is very dangerous! Just one of the reasons I pretty much don't lend tools.

Back in the 70s we had an old mechanic who if someone asked to borrow a tool, would beckon them all the way in to the back of the workshop and point to a sign he had made on the wall "The man who lends tools is out!" . I recall at his bench was a large chunk of brass with cuts and marks in it, it turned out if the bosses father came into the workshop the old mechanic would start filing away at this piece of brass to look busy and the bosses father would look at what he was doing and say something along the lines "Oh! good man, carry on". Don't think that would work these days.
Strangely enough when he finally retired and they replaced him with younger mechanics the work they turned out wasn't as good, as he really did know his job.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Back in the 70s we had an old mechanic who if someone asked to borrow a tool, would beckon them all the way in to the back of the workshop and point to a sign he had made on the wall "The man who lends tools is out!" . I recall at his bench was a large chunk of brass with cuts and marks in it, it turned out if the bosses father came into the workshop the old mechanic would start filing away at this piece of brass to look busy and the bosses father would look at what he was doing and say something along the lines "Oh! good man, carry on". Don't think that would work these days.
Strangely enough when he finally retired and they replaced him with younger mechanics the work they turned out wasn't as good, as he really did know his job.

I think I've previously mentioned that I did a number of years instructing in light vehicle repair and maintenance? There was a fair bit of administrative duties involved in this and I remember being once stopped by a much older instructor in a corridor who asked me what I was doing. i started to tell him and he stopped me almost right away. "What do you notice most about me" he asked. I hadn't a clue what he was talking about and said so. "You need to always look as if you're 'on a mission" he said. "Then no-one is going to query what you're doing. Never just walk about empty handed - do you notice I always have a bundle of files tucked under my elbow"? Take a hint lad! And do you know he was right. he had a reputation as a hard worker who was always "very busy" as a consequence he was well thought of by management. I suspect he couldn't have told you in any great detail what was in any of the files, but it made him look ever so busy! It's all about image in this mad modern world isn't it?

 

[bugsymike]

And do you know he was right. he had a reputation as a hard worker who was always "very busy" as a consequence he was well thought of by management. I suspect he couldn't have told you in any great detail what was in any of the files, but it made him look ever so busy! It's all about image in this mad modern world isn't it?

100% agree, before I became foreman of that dealership one day the then foreman and myself were doing identical work on to different ramps, apart from him grabbing the best ramp (he had the Bradbury four poster wheel free and I had the old chain driven "Coronation" ramp so you can guess how old that was! He was ranting and raving about how hard the job was and everyone thought he must have had to do a really horrible job, whereas I quietly got on and finished before him on the identical car doing the same job!
Mind you he was the same guy who when I saw an identical brake spanner to my missing one he picked it up and showed me his two marks confirming it was his, until I turned it over and showed him the extra mark I had put on all my spanners! That shut him up

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

People who steal other's tools? Absolutely despicable! I've been very lucky and really never had to deal with this except on one occasion when the chap in the bay next to me tried to say my Britool 1/2 inch AF combination was his despite the fact pretty much all his tools were Facom! Ironic that the Britool brand name is now owned by Facom and modern Britool branded stuff seems to be considered as their more budget brand!

Old ramps? that "faster fit" store I worked in was all drive in bays. The end bay was slightly larger and had a 4 poster in it, used almost exclusively for MOTs. At the other end of the shop was a two Poster. I think originally the two end bays had been just flat floors with no lifts and that two poster was a later add on. The other bays had single post hydraulic chassis lifts. These consisted of a single large diameter central pillar which was the ram with an "H" shaped platform on top with adjustable arms on the ends of the "H". The rams were oil operated with the pressure being applied from the shop compressor. They were not great to use because the middle section of the "H" shape and the bulk of the ram itself made it very difficult to work on exhausts etc (which was a big part of our business) I think the original business model assumed we would do a lot of tyres (our main raison d'etre) and brake jobs, with oil changes etc. I don't think they realized our weather and salty roads caused so many exhaust problems. One of the biggest problems though was that you couldn't control where the ramp stopped with any great precision. Put the car over it and adjust the arms. turn on the air supply - which was a screw tap, looked like a plumbers gate valve - and the ramp would rise quite slowly. Turn off the valve and the ramp would continue to rise by anything up to about 6 inches before pressures equalized! same if you were trying to control where it stopped on the way down. We all used to fight over the two poster!

 

[bugsymike]

Facom is good and I believe used by the French railways etc. but my Britool spanners are still going strong 54 years on.
The first garage I worked at, you had to drive around the outside through some sliding doors onto two long girder channels, everything else was done with jacks. They also had a WW2 bomb hoist as an engine crane cable operated, the youngsters of today don't realise how good they have it. The second garage along with the ramps I mentioned before had an out door air over oil H shape one as you mention, within limitations it worked OK until the time a Scottish lad came to work for us, raised a Renault 16 on it to fit a tailbox having forgotten to put the handbrake on or chock the wheels, all good until he went to push the new silencer on and shoved the car off the ramp! With two front wheels hanging in mid air it jammed the centre pillar so it couldn't be dropped down to the ground, we had a fairly new Epco engine crane that the marine department used for lifting V6 Mercury outboards, I got this to take the weight of the front of the Renualt and with a bit of waggling got the ramp down, inbetwwen all this the customer came up the drive , took one look and walked away again. The Scottish lad who was quite a good singer and guitar player then concentrated on those skills.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

It's great reminiscing isn't it Mike? Then you remember the things that put a chill down your spine. For instance we were in the habit of blowing out brakes and brake drums with the compressed air pistol - all drum brakes back in those days, Anglias, A55 and 60, Hillman minx, etc, etc. This produced thick clouds of black dust, laden of course, in those days, with asbestos from the linings. If you blew your nose the snotter looked like black paint! I remember too the strong metalic taste it left in the back of your mouth.This was very common practice back in those days and we all did it. However I'm not aware of any of my old chums dropping off their perches with lung cancer or breathing diseases. I've always wondered if it's because it was such a fine dust, compared, say, to the residue carpenters were subjected to when sawing up asbestos sheet for roofing etc, I'm sure a saw would produce much bigger fibre sizes?

Off to do some weeding now, but I'll come back to this when/if the rain comes on.

 

[bugsymike]

It's great reminiscing isn't it Mike? Then you remember the things that put a chill down your spine. For instance we were in the habit of blowing out brakes and brake drums with the compressed air pistol - all drum brakes back in those days, Anglias, A55 and 60, Hillman minx, etc, etc. This produced thick clouds of black dust, laden of course, in those days, with asbestos from the linings. If you blew your nose the snotter looked like black paint! I remember too the strong metalic taste it left in the back of your mouth.This was very common practice back in those days and we all did it. However I'm not aware of any of my old chums dropping off their perches with lung cancer or breathing diseases. I've always wondered if it's because it was such a fine dust, compared, say, to the residue carpenters were subjected to when sawing up asbestos sheet for roofing etc, I'm sure a saw would produce much bigger fibre sizes?

Off to do some weeding now, but I'll come back to this when/if the rain comes on.

I did speak to my family Doctor about the asbestos many years ago, he said as it was "hard" asbestos it wasn't a problem, though I would say he wasn't correct on several of his diagnosis's, fortunately he did stay long!