General Reconditioning Panda auto box

[stuwilson128]

At my local scrapyard I spotted a Panda with the Dualogic box on it. It seems that the car was scrapped due to the gearbox being unserviceable, however I believe that the issue is with the electronics which change the gears rather than the gearbox itself.

As my wife has a Panda with the Dualogic box I was thinking of getting the gearbox from the scrapped car and having it reconditioned so that we have one as a spare. It may seem a bit extreme to do this, but my wife loves her Panda and will do anything to keep it on the road and with over 108,000 miles on the clock I think it is only a matter of time before to gearbox fails!

My question is who can recondition the Dualogic system (preferably in northern England or southern Scotland) and how much should I expect to pay for reconditioning?

I appreciate that his subject has been covered in depth on another thread but there are so many replies that I am struggling to find the relevant information!

 

[jrkitching]

Actual gearbox failure is most uncommon; it's normally the actuating system that fails, and sadly that's all too often reported here on higher mileage cars.

The most common failure is the actuator itself; spare parts are not available and the actuator is replaced as a complete unit. The pump is another possible failure item, and at that mileage, you'd likely want to replace the clutch while you were in there.

If your wife's car does fail, the failure mode is likely to be the same as that in the car that's been scrapped, so it makes little or no sense to buy one that's already failed; you might as well just repair your wife's car if the worst should happen.

On a car with that mileage, any repair is likely to cost significantly more than the car is worth, even if you were doing all the work yourself. If the actuator does give up, the part alone retails for a whopping £1388.15; add labour and you'll be looking at close on two grand, and that's if other work isn't needed. You can buy it cheaper if you shop around, here for example, but you've still got the problem of finding somewhere to fit it if you can't do it yourself; I personally wouldn't give a job like this to anyone other than a Fiat specialist (though not a franchised dealer).

Before spending any serious money on an older Panda, check (or have someone competent check for you) the rear beam for corrosion; this is another known weakness which will likely cost you somewhere in the region of £1-£1.5k if you don't do it yourself, and it's an MOT failure once serious corrosion has set in. There's little point in throwing those sort of sums on a car that's probably only going to be worth a few hundred pounds once repaired.

 

[DaveMcT]

I generally believe that older cars are worth fixing as the costs of even quite significant repairs are usually much less than the costs of a new car. But at these prices you have to stand back. Sometimes, there's just no point.

I don't subscribe to the thought that an old car is rarely worth the "investment" compared to a newer car. Apart from some classics, cars are always a cost they are negative investments. Do you want to pay your costs in monthly payments (new car) or intermittent in repair costs (old car). There comes a point when reliability and rising costs kill the old car, but that's not necessarily based on what its worth if you try to sell it.


In this special case, you might** be able to fit a manual gearbox. but the work would have to be DIY to make financial sense and I would never buy a car in the hopes that such a thing might be possible. It's almost certainly better to find a manual model. There are many good Pandas out there.

** Has anyone done such a thing on a Panda?

 

[Eklipze3k]

Isn't the gearbox itself identical between the manual and the dualogic, it's just the manual has a stick and cables whereas the dualogic has the actuators and all that gubbins? Theoretically, it would be easy enough to convert a dualogic back to manual if that is the case.

 

[DaveMcT]

That's my thinking. You would need an ordinary box clutch, clutch pedal, & hydraulics gear cables and gear lever, etc.

The issue might be error signals caused by "missing" actuators putting warnings on the dashboard.


Costs done by a garage would be way out of reason but DIY could be possible.

 

[chris3234]

Isn't the gearbox itself identical between the manual and the dualogic, it's just the manual has a stick and cables whereas the dualogic has the actuators and all that gubbins? Theoretically, it would be easy enough to convert a dualogic back to manual if that is the case.

Sure I remember somewhere reading that the dashboard clock's aren't transferable between an auto and manual so would need them changing at the very least
Not 100% on that however

 

[DaveMcT]

Sure I remember somewhere reading that the dashboard clock's aren't transferable between an auto and manual so would need them changing at the very least
Not 100% on that however

Then you run into the compatibility issues of Fiat locking the ECU, clocks and immobiliser together. Over time its getting ever more difficult to swap major stuff between cars. This is just another example.


I mean - the Wheeler Dealers swapped the auto box for a manual in a 1970s Nissan 240Z. All the brackets were there so it was a straight forwards in/out job and wiring was simple. Today you might have the brackets etc but everything else would be non compatible.

 

[chris3234]

Then you run into the compatibility issues of Fiat locking the ECU, clocks and immobiliser together. le.

I think thats more of a security/insurance thing
So you can't just smash the ignition barrel and out change put a different ECU in with accompanying imobliser chip to drive the car away could get a lot of cars stolen that way

 

[DaveMcT]

I think thats more of a security/insurance thing
So you can't just smash the ignition barrel and out change put a different ECU in with accompanying imobliser chip to drive the car away could get a lot of cars stolen that way

Absolutely true, but it causes big problems if you want to use a manual box in an auto car as the auto car's ECU will see all sorts of faults. Swapping "the box" could entail swapping loads of other (expensive) stuff just to get the car running as it should

 

[stuwilson128]

Thanks for the replies! I think I will leave the box in the breakers and if the box fails on my wife’s Panda I will look at the possible solutions then!

 

[DaveMcT]

Get the gearbox servos on your wife's car properly serviced ASAP with the correct fluid.