Technical Panda Won't turn over at all after stall - CODE light on

[ManicGTI]

Hi all! Whilst taking Nephew for driving lesson tonght he stalled it at a roundabout - he tried to restart and nothing...it won't even turn over. Totally out of the blue, mid journey.

Locks/ lights work, turn ignition on and dash lights up fine, but the CODE light flashes a few times then and stays on (with main key and spare). Battery is new.

From what I understand from other threads, if it was just an immob issue (ie Key), it would allow it to turn over but not start? In my case it won't attempt to turn over at all. I've been recovered home but I'm struggling to work out what to do next.

Any thoughts? Sadly I can't find the CODE card in the pack of stuff from the previous owner to try that option but i'm not convinced it's the keys.

The Panda is a 2008 100hp.

Any suggestions welcome!

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi

Check the main Battery to Chassis
EARTH cable.

 

[koalar]

As per @varesecrazy

If you turn the car to crank and you see some or all of

Missing battery charge
Missing oil
Missing engine check
Immo on

The engine block has gone to battery voltage

Quick test is to measure the voltage between the battery negative terminal and the engine block while cranking

Should be below 0.2V but 0.5V wouldn't be a problem

Here's mine at 12V

Assuming it's over 0.5v the. Battery, battery tray and clutch slave have to come out all very simple


Have you got tools, multimeter

Or

Will you be using a garage

In the UK we weren't given the CODE

 

[ManicGTI]

Initially I'll be looking myself, I bought this car as a cheap runabout for Ulez/teaching nephew to drive so don't want to drop too much time/money into it. I have most tools and vaguely competent with a multi meter - I retrofitted a 2.5 Subaru Engine to my T3 VW Camper earlier in the year. That said, I'm not used to working on cars of this era...with immobilisers and more complex looms!

Thanks, I'll check block voltage. My immob light comes on first key turn, after all the usual check lights come on and back off (not just crank position).

The car came with a knackered slave and battery, so I swapped them out for new a few months ago.

 

[ManicGTI]

Quick test is to measure the voltage between the battery negative terminal and the engine block while cranking


Should be below 0.2V but 0.5V wouldn't be a problem

Here's mine at 12V

Assuming it's over 0.5v the. Battery, battery tray and clutch slave have to come out all very simple

So, that was a great suggestion...I have more or less full battery voltage at the block, both with ign on, and cranking. all the warning lights (apart from immob) do come on, but go out again. Intermittently it's showing a high coolant temp warning, but the engine is cold so that must be spurious (and wasn't happening yesterday or when the issue occurred).

I'll check the Battery-Chassis earth. I have loads of spare cables anyway as i've been setting up leisure battery + solar in the van recently.

 

[ManicGTI]

Earth strap...looks tatty but not falling apart. Kicking myself for not just shorting it with a jump lead before pulling it all out to check, but can't see the point in reinstalling it in this state.

Anyone know the CSA on the factory one so I sort out a replacement? I have some 25mm2 cables I can try for the time being and replace with a braided strap later.

I'm till very confused what could have happened mid journey to cause this.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Sadly I would say check the cam belt has not let go

 

[ManicGTI]

Sadly I would say check the cam belt has not let go

Umm, Is this to a different thread?

Just hooked up a 35mm2 Battery cable in place of the earth strap, put battery in loose and it fired straight up (albeit with a engine check light)!. Hopefully that'll clear once i've bolted it all back up properly and done a few cycles.

Thanks all! I'll order a 25mm2 Braided strap to replace the old one, hopefully that's sufficient.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Umm, Is this to a different thread?

Just hooked up a 35mm2 Battery cable in place of the earth strap, put battery in loose and it fired straight up (albeit with a engine check light)!. Hopefully that'll clear once i've bolted it all back up properly and done a few cycles.

Thanks all! I'll order a 25mm2 Braided strap to replace the old one, hopefully that's sufficient.

Sorry

 

[DTanner]

Hi @ManicGTI ,
I have no specific advice to offer over the others but did recently tidy the earth strap on mine. I did two things:
1) I soaked the strap in vinegar for 20 mins and it cleaned it right up. I rinsed it off and dabbed it dry and reinstalled it. Mine started out looking similar to yours
2) While I was there I added a second strap (I think it was completely unnecessary but I had one). I just threw it onto one of the clutch slave cylinder bolts. Measuring resistance showed it was a good connection.

The image shows the final install.

While there wire brush or tidy up the chassis ground points and check effectiveness by measuring resistance between a metallic lump of the engine and the battery negative post (with the harnessing attached). It should be very low. Did you measure the resistance before removing the strap - would be good to know if it was improved with work you did.

 

[koalar]

Umm, Is this to a different thread?

Just hooked up a 35mm2 Battery cable in place of the earth strap, put battery in loose and it fired straight up (albeit with a engine check light)!. Hopefully that'll clear once i've bolted it all back up properly and done a few cycles.

Thanks all! I'll order a 25mm2 Braided strap to replace the old one, hopefully that's sufficient.

Should be

Shame I can't find the official specs though

 

[koalar]

Earth strap...looks tatty but not falling apart. Kicking myself for not just shorting it with a jump lead before pulling it all out to check, but can't see the point in reinstalling it in this state.

Jump as in battery jump leads are very hit and miss on getting a good enough connection to carry over 100 amps, which is why it's not a good diagnostic test, but great for getting you home, I have tried the lifting eye and failed, probably the paint. The gear selector bracket works

 

[varesecrazy]

I wasn't anticipating a braided cable..

Last one I had was a 1989 tipo.. It vaporised

Not as quickly as on my 127 sport though.. I dropped a 13mm spanner in the dark

That spanner was Glowing Cherry before the Braided cable went 'poof'


Saved the car no doubt!

 

[ManicGTI]

I just blasted with some degreaser and bolted up the spare cable for the mo. Have ordered a couple of braided cables from eBay to replace properly.

The other earth cables from battery look fine, is there any others hidden somewhere I should check while I'm in there?

 

[koalar]

I just blasted with some degreaser and bolted up the spare cable for the mo. Have ordered a couple of braided cables from eBay to replace properly.

The other earth cables from battery look fine, is there any others hidden somewhere I should check while I'm in there?

Yes, no, sort of

You have the main large earth from the battery to the chassis rail

Then the chassis rail to the gearbox

All the other earths are much smaller and rarely give any problem, normal gauge wire usally plugged into a little black box bolted to the body,


The only other that gives trouble is the power steering bolted directly to the top of the battery negative post, it doesn't ever need replacing but the ends sometimes news cleaning up with a scotchbrite pad or similar.

 

[varesecrazy]

OK.. I will post this IN CASE it is useful

I am 90 % certain that Braid isn't factory..

So am left to summise your factory Black cable. BATTERY CHASSIS G. Box is probably useless.. and the braid was added as a Stop. Gap

The factory black cables get moisture in and the Copper innards turn to green mush..

 

[g8rpi]

Cause of the failure when the car was stalled was probably the sudden movement of the engine and gearbox due to torque reaction as the clutch came up breaking the remaining connection of the lead.

Taking the lead out to clean the braid is a waste of effort. If it starting to look frayed just fit an new one.

Robert.

 

[koalar]

OK.. I will post this IN CASE it is useful

I am 90 % certain that Braid isn't factory..

So am left to summise your factory Black cable. BATTERY CHASSIS G. Box is probably useless.. and the braid was added as a Stop. Gap

The factory black cables get moisture in and the Copper innards turn to green mush..

Fiat keep changing the design

My 2011 is braided

My 2005 and 2006 had black leads sealed at the end so they could never give a problem

Earlier punto were a black cable with open ends, water entered the cable and they rotted from the inside, this type gave a lot of trouble, I don't know if they were ever fitted to the early pandas

So fiat had a problem, fixed the problem and now back to problem to be fair the braided normally look bad but still work well past 10 years,

 

[The Panda Nut]

My 2011 is braided too. It looked rough but was in decent enough condition when inspected. I have cleaned it and greased it and expect it will do a long time yet. The gearboxend fixing bolt and the lug to which bolted however was in bad state and required more attention to make good.

 

[Yolanda]

Earth strap...looks tatty but not falling apart. Kicking myself for not just shorting it with a jump lead before pulling it all out to check, but can't see the point in reinstalling it in this state.

Anyone know the CSA on the factory one so I sort out a replacement? I have some 25mm2 cables I can try for the time being and replace with a braided strap later.

I'm till very confused what could have happened mid journey to cause this.

View attachment 429874

Does my 1200 8 valve have this braided strap, if so where is it situated.