Technical Panda Evo2 timing belt replacement.

[Razamamaz]

This is how the bumpers look before tightening to the specified torque, but I tightened the nut very firmly with a flat wrench.

This is how it looks after tightening to 28Nm torque.
The best part is that the pulley did not move, the tension is the same, but the bumpers shifted because it seems like the nut was pulling on the center of the tensioner.

 

[koalar]

Too far out that is

If you haven't got the tool to hold the centre while you torque it up

Guess how much it's going to move


Try about here

Then torque it up

Might take a few goes but you should be able to get it pretty close

 

[Razamamaz]

I did it this way: I used a 3/8 socket. I was able to apply it when I had the Seger pliers on the tensioner. I held the bumper settings firmly by hand while using the Seger pliers, and with the other hand, I tightened it to the specified torque with a torque wrench. I then turned the engine two more times, and unfortunately the bumpers shifted a bit. That's how it looks.

 

[koalar]

I would call that good enough

They do not always line up 100% after a couple of turns

 

[Razamamaz]

Nic nie ruszyłem, a kiedy obróciłem wał korbowy o pół obrotu, napinacz powrócił do końcowych pozycji. Może tak ma naciskać, a zakres pokazany na akceptację jest akceptowalny?

 

[koalar]

Yes it's acceptable

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes it's acceptable

As you can see I'm back from a strenuous afternoon with the grandchildren - early bed for me I think! I agree with koalar totally, the line up you show in your picture is quite acceptable. In fact if you subsequently look at one after maybe 18 months/10,000 miles you'll find that the marks have moved enough that you notice it - not as much as your picture of the original tensioner though. Same thing if you look at them when the engine is fully up to temperature - no doubt due to expansion of the block and head causing the crankshaft and camshaft centre lines to move apart very slightly. I once amused myself by watching the pointers as I was rotating the crankshaft and you can see them moving slightly as the crankshaft is turned. If you watch them when the engine is running they seem to "flicker" as they move slightly. So, yes you want to get them lined up as good as possible, but a small difference such as your picture shows, is of little or no significance.

 

[Razamamaz]

I would like to thank you for the help and support that I have constantly received from you. The car started very nicely, I waited until the coolant filled up because I wanted the silicone to properly seal on the water pump. Unfortunately, the check engine light came on, but after the third start, it disappeared. Then I started the engine several times and the check engine light did not come back. I wonder what the cause was. This tensioner could still swing even more but it was always within the bump stops, and at some point the bump stops were perfectly set (depending on the pivot point). I will check that unfortunate tensioner again sometime. I still have to bleed the cooling system, but that will be tomorrow. I have one more question for you: you probably use MultiECUScan, right? Is it possible to check engine operating parameters with it and based on those data determine if everything is okay regarding the timing belt?

 

[koalar]

I would like to thank you for the help and support that I have constantly received from you. The car started very nicely, I waited until the coolant filled up because I wanted the silicone to properly seal on the water pump. Unfortunately, the check engine light came on, but after the third start, it disappeared. Then I started the engine several times and the check engine light did not come back. I wonder what the cause was. This tensioner could still swing even more but it was always within the bump stops, and at some point the bump stops were perfectly set (depending on the pivot point). I will check that unfortunate tensioner again sometime. I still have to bleed the cooling system, but that will be tomorrow. I have one more question for you: you probably use MultiECUScan, right? Is it possible to check engine operating parameters with it and based on those data determine if everything is okay regarding the timing belt?

If it's a tooth out you will see a camshaft correlation error on any scanner

Also if the phonic learn is out it will flash the check light

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I would like to thank you for the help and support that I have constantly received from you. The car started very nicely, I waited until the coolant filled up because I wanted the silicone to properly seal on the water pump. Unfortunately, the check engine light came on, but after the third start, it disappeared. Then I started the engine several times and the check engine light did not come back. I wonder what the cause was. This tensioner could still swing even more but it was always within the bump stops, and at some point the bump stops were perfectly set (depending on the pivot point). I will check that unfortunate tensioner again sometime. I still have to bleed the cooling system, but that will be tomorrow. I have one more question for you: you probably use MultiECUScan, right? Is it possible to check engine operating parameters with it and based on those data determine if everything is okay regarding the timing belt?

If it's a tooth out you will see a camshaft correlation error on any scanner

Also if the phonic learn is out it will flash the check light

Thinking about the CEL which came on briefly. Keep an eye out for that when you go for a longer drive maybe at above city speeds. Have you driven it any distance yet and especially at above, say, 40mph, for more than just a few minutes? If the ECU needs a relearn due to the new belt then the CEL will start flashing, but often not until you've taken it for a decent drive at varying speeds. If it does this it'll need scanning and, although what it very likely needs is a "phonic wheel relearn" the codes recorded will be for an engine missfire - so don't let that mislead you. Lots of people have posted about this from time to time on the forum. The big "give away" about it not being a misfire is that you'll have no misfire symptoms. In my experience though, if you've not slackened the camshaft pulley bolt (which I understand you have not?) Then I've never worked on one yet which needed a relearn done. If a relearn is needed you'll need dedicated equipment (MES for instance) to do it with.

 

[Razamamaz]

Hello again, I didn't reply for a while because I was at work, and today I wanted to bleed the cooling system. Unfortunately, without success. The coolant heated up to 90 degrees, then the fan turned on. I opened the bleed valve located near the heater core, added some throttle, some air came out followed immediately by coolant, but then it stopped leaking. Unfortunately, the air coming from the vents is still cold. I tried a few more times but without success. Now, with the engine warm, I can open the bleed valve near the heater core, rev the engine, and not even a drop of coolant comes out. I once replaced the thermostat and managed to bleed it very quickly, even though I also drained all the coolant. I checked if there were any leaks around the water pump (I didn't notice any). What else is worth checking? Regards to the forum members.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hello again, I didn't reply for a while because I was at work, and today I wanted to bleed the cooling system. Unfortunately, without success. The coolant heated up to 90 degrees, then the fan turned on. I opened the bleed valve located near the heater core, added some throttle, some air came out followed immediately by coolant, but then it stopped leaking. Unfortunately, the air coming from the vents is still cold. I tried a few more times but without success. Now, with the engine warm, I can open the bleed valve near the heater core, rev the engine, and not even a drop of coolant comes out. I once replaced the thermostat and managed to bleed it very quickly, even though I also drained all the coolant. I checked if there were any leaks around the water pump (I didn't notice any). What else is worth checking? Regards to the forum members.

Usually they bleed out pretty easily, but just now and again you'll get one that decides to be "difficult" - looks like this is your turn! Increasing the head height of coolant when filling often helps. Here's a post I made some years ago when I did a belt on Becky, our 2010 1.2 Panda: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/beckys-timing-belt-all-done.459967/ Hope it's helpful or at least maybe given you food for thought.

 

[Razamamaz]

Today I checked the fluid level; it is slightly below MAX, and of course, the system is still airlocked. I blew through the reservoir and heard some gurgling somewhere in the system. I checked if any oil had increased (the head gasket is damaged), but the level was fine. I will try your method or buy a new reservoir cap, drill it, and use a manual pump to build pressure up to about 1 bar, which should probably push the air out of the farther parts of the system.

 

[koalar]

Drain it

Open both bleed screws, assuming you don't have a version an external expansion bottle


Pour the coolant in very slowly until it comes out the radiator bleed screw, tighten

Continue pouring very slowly until it comes out of the heater matrix pipe bleed screw, continue until it comes out bubble free,

As long as you pour slowly, should be close enough for the heaters to be working

If they are not we need to diagnose what went wrong

A quick and dirty test would be to leave the heater bleed screw off and rev the engine, it should produce a jet of coolant

 

[Razamamaz]

So, drain all the coolant, pour it slowly while waiting for it to overflow through the bleed valve at the radiator, then close it, continue filling and wait for it to come out through the bleed valve at the heater. Alternatively, if it doesn't flow out, try blowing into the reservoir and it will come out at the heater. Maybe I'll do it like you once advised in another topic, to raise the front of the car on my version from the passenger side so that the expansion tank is higher, and then slowly fill the coolant. I will also do a test for the presence of CO2 in the cooling system (hopefully it's not that).

 

[koalar]

The radiator fill is higher than the bleeds, just keep filling till it runs out bubble free


Problems normally only occur if you glug the coolant in, or don't open the radiator bleed screw

 

[Razamamaz]

Gentlemen, yesterday I was working on bleeding the system. I wanted to use the idea of extending the expansion tank (to make it the highest point in the cooling system), but I didn't have a suitable hose. I raised the front of the car and warmed it up to 90 degrees. The thermostat opened to the large circuit because the hose going to the heater was even scalding hot, but the hose coming from the heater was not even slightly warm and was soft without fluid. I decided to try driving 10 km to see what would happen. When I returned home, the hose coming from the heater was already warm, and fluid appeared. Then I unscrewed the bleeder valve on the heater, and fluid started to leak out. It even started blowing quite warm air. This morning, I checked the fluid level and had to top it up slightly. I went to work and turned on the warm air, but it still is not the final temperature. While running, I unscrewed the bleeder valve on the heater again, and fluid immediately started leaking out. I wonder if the problem might be with the heater core itself. Actually, lately the weather here in my country has been very warm, and I hadn't used the warm air before the timing belt replacement. The coolant temperature gauge rises smoothly and stops at 90 degrees, and the radiator fan also turns on. I have already driven 100 km, and the engine has power and runs nicely. The only thing is that when I start it after a longer stop, something squeaks (a slipping sound) near the timing belt or V-belt. I replaced the V-belt, so I will try to remove it after a longer stop, start the engine without the V-belt, and check if the squeaking persists. Maybe it's the belt or improper tensioning of the belt by the alternator.

 

[koalar]

Undo the two hoses from the heater matrix

Attach a hose

See if water flows freely and clear through

It's how I flush them

 

[koalar]

Does your car have Aircon


If it hasn't it likely the alternator belt needs tightening slightly, don't go too mad otherwise the life of the alternator bearing will be reduced

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Gentlemen, yesterday I was working on bleeding the system. I wanted to use the idea of extending the expansion tank (to make it the highest point in the cooling system), but I didn't have a suitable hose. I raised the front of the car and warmed it up to 90 degrees. The thermostat opened to the large circuit because the hose going to the heater was even scalding hot, but the hose coming from the heater was not even slightly warm and was soft without fluid. I decided to try driving 10 km to see what would happen. When I returned home, the hose coming from the heater was already warm, and fluid appeared. Then I unscrewed the bleeder valve on the heater, and fluid started to leak out. It even started blowing quite warm air. This morning, I checked the fluid level and had to top it up slightly. I went to work and turned on the warm air, but it still is not the final temperature. While running, I unscrewed the bleeder valve on the heater again, and fluid immediately started leaking out. I wonder if the problem might be with the heater core itself. Actually, lately the weather here in my country has been very warm, and I hadn't used the warm air before the timing belt replacement. The coolant temperature gauge rises smoothly and stops at 90 degrees, and the radiator fan also turns on. I have already driven 100 km, and the engine has power and runs nicely. The only thing is that when I start it after a longer stop, something squeaks (a slipping sound) near the timing belt or V-belt. I replaced the V-belt, so I will try to remove it after a longer stop, start the engine without the V-belt, and check if the squeaking persists. Maybe it's the belt or improper tensioning of the belt by the alternator.

That does sound like your heater core may be partially blocked. Some circulation does seem to be taking place though which is good because it's likely that, with the help of a hose and some good pressure of mains water, you will be able to back flush the core. As you'll have noticed, the coolant flows from the engine through the hose with the little bleed screw then through the core and back into the system through the return pipe. Of course you want to apply the flush to the return pipe not the feed - the one with the bleed screw - or all you might do is compact any debris into the core. Of course it's worth considering that back flushing the core may cause it to leak which gives you a whole new level of aggravation!

Regarding the squeak. Removing the belt and seeing if that stops it is exactly what I'd do. From your explanation I gather your engine has an adjustable alternator mounting rather than a spring loaded tensioner bearing and fixed alternator mountings? If so it may well be just that the tension is insufficient but check the bottom of the pulley grooves for contamination packed in which might stop the belt settling right into the grooves. Unlikely but worth checking.