Post 6
Technical Panda Evo2 timing belt replacement.
- Thread starter Razamamaz
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Technical Panda Evo2 timing belt replacement.
Hello,
I'm only now getting around to changing the timing belt. I bought a timing kit, but I'm a bit concerned about the discoloration on the new belt, visible in the photos I’ve attached. I’m asking because I might still be able to return it. It’s possible that the marks are leftovers from the factory machine. You’ve done this job more than once, so you probably know what this looks like
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I'm only now getting around to changing the timing belt. I bought a timing kit, but I'm a bit concerned about the discoloration on the new belt, visible in the photos I’ve attached. I’m asking because I might still be able to return it. It’s possible that the marks are leftovers from the factory machine. You’ve done this job more than once, so you probably know what this looks like
I started working today and I have a few questions. Currently, the tensioner I have installed surprisingly has no bump stops. It’s possible that someone installed a tensioner from an earlier version of this engine and set the tension in Hz; the new one normally has bump stops. Second thing, I made my own marks. I installed the crankshaft lock, but as you can see, it’s not very precise. Three screws went in lightly, and to screw in the third one I would need to adjust the hole with a file, however, the lock is holding firmly. When you turn the crankshaft, it’s worth unscrewing the spark plugs to feel if everything is okay after assembly. Regards.
Hi. I've only just picked up on this thread and have been reading it right through.
Regarding the 3rd crankshaft bolt not entering the locking tool. have you tightened the other two already? If so you may find the third bolt will go in if you leave the other two just finger tight then, once it's in, compete fully tightening them. If the two bolts already in place are slack and the third still won't go in then my guess would be it's not a very well made tool and I'd be questioning how accurately the whole tool kit has been made. I might feel reluctant to trust it? You do have the "pip" on the crankshaft pulley engaged with the little hole in the timing tool don't you? If so, and you still decide to continue the job using this locking tool, I very much doubt if it would miss that third bolt - by which I mean just tighten the other two up nice and tight and go with that. Personally though, if the tool kit is a cheap "knock off" I'd be questioning the accuracy of it - especially if you're doing the cam seal because then you're going to need to use the camshaft locking tool and I'd be asking myself whether that was of questionable accuracy too? What make is the tool kit you have?
Do I understand that you are fitting a new camshaft oil seal or not? Need to know that before commenting further as it'll greatly affect how you do the job. Without doing the seal it's much simpler than if it has to be replaced.
You say the installed tensioner has no "bump stops"? I'm not sure what you mean? Looking at the picture you show of the old tensioner still fitted to the engine, it's an "automatic" so spring loaded, tensioner - as I'd expect to find on this engine. It's way out of tension as can be seen by the position of the indicator pointers - however this is to be expected on a belt which is near the end of it's service life. The new tensioner you show is correct for this engine - as is the one already on it - Being a different make it's pointers are slightly different that's all. Automatic tensioners set the belt tension "automatically" when rotated until the pointer marks line up - no need for a frequency tool or trying to guess at it. Because of this I'm always pleased when I see this type of tensioner
Regarding the 3rd crankshaft bolt not entering the locking tool. have you tightened the other two already? If so you may find the third bolt will go in if you leave the other two just finger tight then, once it's in, compete fully tightening them. If the two bolts already in place are slack and the third still won't go in then my guess would be it's not a very well made tool and I'd be questioning how accurately the whole tool kit has been made. I might feel reluctant to trust it? You do have the "pip" on the crankshaft pulley engaged with the little hole in the timing tool don't you? If so, and you still decide to continue the job using this locking tool, I very much doubt if it would miss that third bolt - by which I mean just tighten the other two up nice and tight and go with that. Personally though, if the tool kit is a cheap "knock off" I'd be questioning the accuracy of it - especially if you're doing the cam seal because then you're going to need to use the camshaft locking tool and I'd be asking myself whether that was of questionable accuracy too? What make is the tool kit you have?
Do I understand that you are fitting a new camshaft oil seal or not? Need to know that before commenting further as it'll greatly affect how you do the job. Without doing the seal it's much simpler than if it has to be replaced.
You say the installed tensioner has no "bump stops"? I'm not sure what you mean? Looking at the picture you show of the old tensioner still fitted to the engine, it's an "automatic" so spring loaded, tensioner - as I'd expect to find on this engine. It's way out of tension as can be seen by the position of the indicator pointers - however this is to be expected on a belt which is near the end of it's service life. The new tensioner you show is correct for this engine - as is the one already on it - Being a different make it's pointers are slightly different that's all. Automatic tensioners set the belt tension "automatically" when rotated until the pointer marks line up - no need for a frequency tool or trying to guess at it. Because of this I'm always pleased when I see this type of tensioner
Just a quick comment. My locking kit is a Neilsen branded one. Not the very cheapest but also not too expensive. I've used it a number of times on Pandas and my boy's Punto and never had a problem with bolt holes lining up.
Forgot to mention the discoloured cam belt. First off, Gates is a premium brand - my preferred option in fact, I've been fitting them for years and never ever had a problem with one. If that discoloured mark goes right round the belt I'd be inclined to say it's just a result of the manufacturing process. However if you can exchange it easily it might be a good idea to do that - Then, when the new one has the same mark, you can sit with it in your hands and say to yourself and say, "oh well, at least I know now there was nothing wrong with the first one!" 
Been there and done that a number of times This is one of the main reasons why, here in Scotland, I prefer to buy my parts from a local trade supplier rather than on line. It's so much easier just to get in the car and drive the ten minutes or so which it takes to get to his shop.
When you instal the new tensioner it has a locator on the back which has to be correctly engaged with the engine block otherwise it can't be tensioned correctly.
Also, you'll notice the belt runs very much towards the back of the pulleys - as can be seen in your picture of the cam pulley. This is normal. The alignment of the belt on the pulley is controlled by the flanges on the water pump pulley and is not adjustable. I worried about this on the first one I ever did, expecting the belt to run in the middle of the pulley, but they don't, yours looks normal.
By the way. Did you buy a kit which includes the water pump? Unless the water pump has been very recently replaced, I always do the water pump at the same time as doing a belt. If the pump bearings subsequently fail then you've got to do the whole job again just to change the pump. Anyway, the coolant will probably be the better of being renewed and you'll loose most of it when you change the pump which means refilling with new coolant gets that job done too.
Been there and done that a number of times This is one of the main reasons why, here in Scotland, I prefer to buy my parts from a local trade supplier rather than on line. It's so much easier just to get in the car and drive the ten minutes or so which it takes to get to his shop.When you instal the new tensioner it has a locator on the back which has to be correctly engaged with the engine block otherwise it can't be tensioned correctly.
Also, you'll notice the belt runs very much towards the back of the pulleys - as can be seen in your picture of the cam pulley. This is normal. The alignment of the belt on the pulley is controlled by the flanges on the water pump pulley and is not adjustable. I worried about this on the first one I ever did, expecting the belt to run in the middle of the pulley, but they don't, yours looks normal.
By the way. Did you buy a kit which includes the water pump? Unless the water pump has been very recently replaced, I always do the water pump at the same time as doing a belt. If the pump bearings subsequently fail then you've got to do the whole job again just to change the pump. Anyway, the coolant will probably be the better of being renewed and you'll loose most of it when you change the pump which means refilling with new coolant gets that job done too.
These two slots have to line up
Check it's genuine
Gates protects its timing belts against counterfeit | Gates Europe
Discover how to check that you have bought a genuine Gates timing belt.
If it is, fit it
If it isn't sending it back
Another reason to buy from a trusted local factor/supplier I think.Check it's genuine
Gates protects its timing belts against counterfeit | Gates Europe
Discover how to check that you have bought a genuine Gates timing belt.www.gatestechzone.com
If it is, fit it
If it isn't sending it back
I would like to thank you very much for your response. I will not replace the gasket; I haven’t even removed the cover. These are the cheapest locks purchased from an online store and, as you can see, very inaccurate. You were right about the tensioner—when I dismantled it, I saw that it actually has bumpers, just a different type. Ultimately, I left the crankshaft locked this way and made my own marks on the camshafts and the belt. I have already transferred the marks onto the new belt. Now I will clean the area under the water pump. I have one more question regarding the tensioner: the manual says to turn the engine two revolutions at maximum tension of the tensioner, and only then return to the target tension. I read that this procedure may affect the timing shift by one tooth. I'm wondering if I should just set the target tension right away and leave it at that.
As for the tensioner, in this particular engine, I don’t see that it is supposed to mesh with the block.
As for the tensioner, in this particular engine, I don’t see that it is supposed to mesh with the block.
Take out the three bolts
Put them all in just a couple of turns and tighten them down evenly
There will be enough play to allow for the drilling error
I would worry about it anyhow, and leave it as it is it's near enough
Sorry Raz. I was thinking about another, very similar one I did recently. No there's no tab on the back, The spring acts internally against the belt - nothing you can see externally. FIAT recommend you rotate the tensioner until all the spring movement is fully used up, rotate the crankshaft at least two turns to settle the belt and then back the tensioner off until the two pointers line up. I didn't know this on the first couple I did so just lined the marks up and rotated the engine a few times to check valves and pistons weren't touching, recheck the pointers were lining up and fully tightened the locking nut. It worked fine and I had no problems with either car. I've since done it both ways and really can't see the point of the over tightening procedure recommended by FIAT. However, if that's what they recommend then best to do it I suppose?
Be aware that after two - or more - revolutions of the crankshaft the marks you made on the belt will not line up again - but the marks on pulleys and engine casings will.
Regarding being the belt being out by one tooth. If you've made marks on the belt and pulleys and not locked the camshaft - which you can't do without removing the cam cover so I'm guessing this is what you've done? Then, as long as your marks line up on both belt and pulleys then you'll be fine. The problem comes when you've locked the cam and crank pulleys because, although you can remove the old belt with the shafts locked it's impossible to get the new belt on (the right side of the belt being under "fitted" tension) You'll find typically that if you try this the cam pulley teeth are half a tooth out of being able to engage the belt. To get the belt on you have to remove the cam locking tool, rotate the cam pulley half a tooth clockwise, fit the belt and then you will find that as you rotate the tensioner to apply tension to the belt, the cam locking tool will drop back into it's slot. So, not a problem if you've not removed the cam cover and installed the cam locking bar.
Just in case you haven't done it, take the spark plugs out. It makes rotating the crankshaft so much easier but, more importantly, it gives you more feel if something impedes you turning the crank when doing the two turns before trying to start her. By the way, when you're doing those two turns - which, of course, opens and closes all the valves once to check for anything making unintended contact - turn the crankshaft slowly. If you turn it too fast and a valve does contact a piston, the effect of the flywheel will be enough to still bend the valve. Take it slow and steady and be ready to stop instantly if resistance is felt.
Got to go now, Taking the grand children - younger boy's kids - swimming this afternoon so got to drive out into "wildest" Midlothian to be there to pick them up from school. I'll get back to reading about how you've got on at about 20.00hrs this evening, traffic permitting. - Got to come back through the centre of the city as we're calling at my older boy's home on our return journey and he's just on the southern outskirts. We are in the north down near the Leith Docks so not worth trying to go round on the bypass.
Chłopaki, wielkie dzięki za pomoc. Czekam, aż silikon na pompie trochę stwardnieje, potem założę pasek i rozrusznik. Uzupełnię płyn chłodzący za kilka godzin. A tak przy okazji, czy jesteś pewien, że śruba napinacza powinna być dokręcona momentem 28 Nm? Wydaje mi się, że to trochę za dużo jak na tę śrubę.
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M8 nut for the tensioner 28Nm is correct
Gentlemen, I have a problem with one thing. I set the tensioner in the correct position, the bumpers aligned, holding the tensioner using snap ring pliers, I tightened the nut as much as I could with a flat 13mm wrench. The problem occurs when I want to tighten the nut to the specified torque of 28Nm – the center rotates, the bumpers move away, but the best part is that the belt still remains tightly tensioned.
How far out are the bumpers
They don't have to be perfect
They don't have to be perfect
