Technical Panda eco 1.1 2010 misfire The FIX !

[woodchuck]

Hi, newbie so apologise if I don't post this collectively .

Have been following this thread for some time and have replaced everything mentioned ( new coils, plugs, leads, good quality). Have moved all the wires, plugs, connections in the ECU area and the y inter connection in the harness, while engine running.- nuffink.
While driving goes between running like a bird (or a Panda?) to misfiring to extent of not be able to drive up hill.
Have asks to 4 mechanics, including a Fiat trained mechanic, none have suggested anything that improves.

Its a 1.1 2007, 70,000 miles, decent service history, is it time to give up and scrap it. I doubt anyone would buy it with the yellow light of doom alight.

 

[koalar]

Hi, newbie so apologise if I don't post this collectively .

Have been following this thread for some time and have replaced everything mentioned ( new coils, plugs, leads, good quality). Have moved all the wires, plugs, connections in the ECU area and the y inter connection in the harness, while engine running.- nuffink.
While driving goes between running like a bird (or a Panda?) to misfiring to extent of not be able to drive up hill.
Have asks to 4 mechanics, including a Fiat trained mechanic, none have suggested anything that improves.

Its a 1.1 2007, 70,000 miles, decent service history, is it time to give up and scrap it. I doubt anyone would buy it with the yellow light of doom alight.

would help if we knew under what circumstances you experience the problem

for example

fine when cold but fails when hot
okay until I hit bumps

there's loads of reasons for a miss fire. Throwing parts at the problem can get expensive.


if you have some way of reading the sensors and error codes often gives a hint at which direction to take

 

[varesecrazy]

If its Electrical.. then asking a MECHANIC may not be the best route..

 

[woodchuck]

Have a checked every possible conditions and no relation between type of misfire to conditions. Invariably starts and ticks over, misfires usually seems to be worst after running for a couple of miles. Last managed two trips of 50 miles last weekend through atrocious wet weather with only minor misfires. Two days back managed 10 miles and back but only just.
Wouldn't go up hill at all.

Yesterday, fired up fine, ticked up for ten minutes, wagged all the wires and joints again , nowt. Went to turn it off, massive misfire, on the point of stopping.

 

[varesecrazy]

That sounds classic temp.related

Better on a cold start..or in pouring rain

 

[Goudrons]

Misfires can be caused either from an ignition issue, fueling issue or a mechanical issue (like loss of compression).

You need to work through each.

I suffered a fueling issue on our old 1.1.
There was a fault with the pre cat o2 sensors preheater, meant it would start ok until it warmed up a bit, then misfired badly.

When I logged the fuelling with Torque Pro the fuelling loop just wouldn't trip into closed loop after a cold start, just open loop (system fault) and ran like a dog.

If I restarted it hot, it went straight into closed loop and ran ok.


I swapped the O2 sensors over as the pre and post cat sensors are the same, it worked perfectly again.

 

[koalar]

Have a checked every possible conditions and no relation between type of misfire to conditions. Invariably starts and ticks over, misfires usually seems to be worst after running for a couple of miles. Last managed two trips of 50 miles last weekend through atrocious wet weather with only minor misfires. Two days back managed 10 miles and back but only just.
Wouldn't go up hill at all.

Yesterday, fired up fine, ticked up for ten minutes, wagged all the wires and joints again , nowt. Went to turn it off, massive misfire, on the point of stopping.

the fact it starts okay then goes worse

more than likely the compression is okay

more than likely oil isn't leaking into the cylinders via the valve guides

these engines will run on three cylinders but with low power

the fact its almost stalls on idle probably means at times its only running on two cylinders down and doesn't have enough power to go up even gentle slop

any light on the dash ?

 

[woodchuck]

No mechanical problems, no noises, oil fine so has to be electrical.
When it's not misfiring, runs as well could be.
OBD fault reader repeatedly calls PO 352 Ignition Coil "B" Primary/Secondary circuit.

 

[09 johno]

check the plugs on the ECU, remove them spray both sides with contact cleaner , insert and remove a few times to clean the pins then spray once more before final fitting.
lift the wiring harness as it goes into the plugs and support it ( I used a wooden spoon handle tie-wrapped to the top of the ECU).
If everything else is ok, the pins from the plug to ECU are not making contact properly and gets worse when going over bumpy roads the above MAY fix it.

 

[DaveMcT]

Coils are under £20 each. But you can test it by swapping the coils. If the opposite pair shows miss-fire you have found the problem. Change coils both as No2 wont be far behind the first one.

At this price its almost worth swapping them anyway.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=273580337445&_sacat=0

 

[koalar]

Coils are under £20 each. But you can test it by swapping the coils. If the opposite pair shows miss-fire you have found the problem. Change coils both as No2 wont be far behind the first one.

At this price its almost worth swapping them anyway.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=273580337445&_sacat=0

" and have replaced everything mentioned ( new coils, plugs, leads, good quality)."


the thread is getting confusing but I read it as the coils have already been changed.



having experienced a P0352 myself. Which was fine when cold but became undriveable when hot. I would still suspect the coils. On mine even when cold the coils measured differently. With a multi meter I measured the resistance of the two pins under the small connector. I have two cars three coils measured the same. The faulty coil would measure the same but would be slow to wind down to the correct reading. Every time you swapped the test leads round it would take a few seconds to wind down.


its not unknown for new parts to be faulty. Or maybe the wrong coil got changed ?


its unlikely you will have access to an oscilloscope but probing whie failing would give you a answer



I flipped the connector of while it was running on two cylinders. Removing the connector from the faulty coil made no difference to the running. Where as flipping it off from the good coil caused the car not to start.


It also worth looking at the coils and leads while the engine is running at night. Look for a blue spark and listen for a clicking sound. I slight white sparkle is normal especially if the air is damp.

 

[farmer.palmer]

I bought a 2008 panda active 1.1 at auction (Witney) a couple of years ago. As soon as I drove it home it would intermittently cut out with no real pattern. It would always restart again straight away. The usual codes thrown up were either cam sensor or crank sensor, but I never replaced either sensor, having a vague idea it seemed more like a loose connection/wiring fault. I lived with it for a while, every now and then I would try to solve it. Occasionally I could make cut out by moving different areas of the engine loom while the engine was running. But annoyingly even this was not repeatable so it became very hard to identify anyone area of the loom.
Then one day it cut out over a particularly harsh speed bump and wouldn't restart, so I started wiggling the engine loom and trying the key, eventually it started. I got home and removed the entire engine loom and stripped off all the plastic conduit and tape and checked every joint, connector etc but couldn't find anything conclusive. Put it all back together and still the problem existed. Eventually I got pissed off enough with it that I bought a second hand engine loom off a similar car being broken for £50.00 and fitted it. I am pleased to say that it seems to have cured the problem as the car hasn't cut out since (thats blown it).

 

[chris3234]

I bought a 2008 panda active 1.1 at auction (Witney) a couple of years ago. As soon as I drove it home it would intermittently cut out with no real pattern. It would always restart again straight away. The usual codes thrown up were either cam sensor or crank sensor, but I never replaced either sensor, having a vague idea it seemed more like a loose connection/wiring fault. I lived with it for a while, every now and then I would try to solve it. Occasionally I could make cut out by moving different areas of the engine loom while the engine was running. But annoyingly even this was not repeatable so it became very hard to identify anyone area of the loom.
Then one day it cut out over a particularly harsh speed bump and wouldn't restart, so I started wiggling the engine loom and trying the key, eventually it started. I got home and removed the entire engine loom and stripped off all the plastic conduit and tape and checked every joint, connector etc but couldn't find anything conclusive. Put it all back together and still the problem existed. Eventually I got pissed off enough with it that I bought a second hand engine loom off a similar car being broken for £50.00 and fitted it. I am pleased to say that it seems to have cured the problem as the car hasn't cut out since (thats blown it).

Give it a few weeks if it has improved take the old loom totally to bit see if you can find the fault then should be a lot easier out the car especially

 

[AliCaps]

What the OP is trying to describe is a 'splice-joint' which is located in the engine harness near the rear ignition coil.

This has been known to myself and other Fiat techs for years so it's nothing new and it's likely the auto electrician phoned dealer for advice, I take around 5-8 phone calls per day from other garages so lets not slag of the dealer techs, dealerships pay their wages not Fiat.

Anyway re-soldering the crimp connection often works but not all the time and the best bet is to replace engine loom at around £135 which isn't expensive (cost of 2 branded tryes) and takes about an hour.

Errors? yes you often get an injector or a random misfire error this is due to the splice joint powering the coils/injectors and a couple of near by sensors.

Hope that has cleared things up.

Hello,

I've just posted on the newbie thread but this error seems very similar to mine. Have you got any ideas where I might be able to get a new/reconditioned engine harness for a 57 plate, petrol, 1.2 Panda? I purchased one with a similar code but the ECU connector was different when it arrived. My code is: 00552031150. Thanks so much. Ali

 

[DaveMcT]

Hello,

I've just posted on the newbie thread but this error seems very similar to mine. Have you got any ideas where I might be able to get a new/reconditioned engine harness for a 57 plate, petrol, 1.2 Panda? I purchased one with a similar code but the ECU connector was different when it arrived. My code is: 00552031150. Thanks so much. Ali

This thread has already said to call scrap yard/car breakers to see if they have the 1.2 Panda in stock. They can cut off the ECU connector in a few seconds and job done. You will have to confirm it fits your ECU and solder splice the wires.