General panda 4 by 4 turbo it's here

[Herts Hillhopper]

Oh Alan...So near and yet so far. Sorry to hear - you were coming across here like a kid with a new toy!

I too am torn. I'd go and buy the Watford one tomorrow, but the cash sitting in the bank is earmarked for an extension to the house (already underway) and a new kitchen. I bought a pre-owned 4x4 just last Feb and love it to bits. (I've added over 18,000 miles since then - gulp). Maybe next time I'll find a Cross (maybe the Watford one will be sold as 'ex demo' at a tempting price...)

Mind you Alan, you didn't drive it (so far as we know). So you didn't get to see how much slower it was than your MJ, how much more it revs on a motorway run, how it runs out of 'puff' on a long incline, how much it really doesn't make sense for everyday use. (But then, I put that all to one side, driving nearly 50 miles round a day in mine, because it always puts a smile on my face... and occaisionally I seek out a byway 'just because I can')

So, who's next...? I feel a man from Sunderland may be tempted?

Pete

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Ashame Alan. One door closes and another always opens though. You never know, you could bag a bargin another time, or even find out that you won't want a Cross due to some massive problems or recalls they have.

Jon.

 

[Alan.D]

Blimey Alan, i'm so sorry to hear that.

I could tell how excited you were about it and it seemed to be pretty much in the bag. Am absolutely gutted for you as I know how much you wanted it and so close too...

What an absolute nightmare. I wonder if i'll have the same problem?

Have a big :hug:

I hope not

I'm gutted Pete but even going for the original deal was going to be like buying a brand new MJ & petrol dynamic together which made no sense but I wanted it that much, (I have wanted one since the day they were released 4 yrs ago and even enquired into importing a LHD one before finally giving up and ordering the MJ) the Dealer in Carlisle said wait a couple of years and come back, where the dealer in EK said you want it I'll sort something out and see if you can drive it away by the middle of the week. Don't get me wrong they were taking money off of the Cross left right and centre trying to sort it they even called Fiat asking if they could class it as a demonstrator to pre reg it & take some more money off. Also like you I could now go back and get it on another new car deal but it would be complete stupidity to do so as I have 3 panda's already the MJ, the Sisley and the Italia 90. I wish I had the cash sitting but unfortunately also like you it has gone into so many other different things.

I never drove it as it was still PDI (Pre delivery inspection) but know there is a vast difference in speed MJ 0-60 12s Cross 0-60 18s but owning a Panda has got nothing at all to do with wanting a quick car I still have the Sisley don't forget, mind you my daughters 1.2 punto was even slower than that. But for real sluggishness nothing beats a 750cc Panda like the Italia90.

Anyway it's all Fiats fault, if they had released them when originally planned back in 05 I would never have had this problem.

 

[Alan.D]

Ashame Alan. One door closes and another always opens though. You never know, you could bag a bargin another time, or even find out that you won't want a Cross due to some massive problems or recalls they have.

Jon.

I look at it as a modern Sisley but won't wait another 16yrs to get one

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I look at it as a modern Sisley but won't wait another 16yrs to get one

 

[The Sultan]

LittlePip... Now that Alan D has posted some detailed photos, I see what you're saying. The differential housing is different - and there's a couple of extra 'units' sticking out of the side too.

The driveshaft does indeed meet in a different way. Mine has a black 'lump' at the end of the driveshaft (that I've always assumed is a flexible coupling, rather than the viscous unit, but I'm happy to be told I'm wrong). The Cross's diff is longer and so this part is apparently not there in Alan's photos. I was under the impression that the viscous unit was inside the front part of the diff housing.
What are the two metal cans on the side? (Not the ones the driveshpaft connect to - in front of there) These coincide with where the flexible mounts are on mine (and in Alan's photo, one of these mounts can still be seen on the offside side of the casing)
Here's the similar view taken under my car (didn't have the luxury of a nice clean white floor to lie on so not so easy to take), and a side-on view too for later comparison. I could try using the ePER system to identify the parts, but it won't run under Firefox on my Mac... any PC users fancy trying it?
Pete
[oops - photos too large to upload. I'll have another go!]

erm yea that thing on the front of yours is the viscouse coupling

the cross has no viscouse

the big bits on the side are the mountings

there is some electronic connections to it and what looks like an electronic power take up to the rear activated buy the abs when the front slips

then the abs to control tourque to rear wheels

i'm not sure exactly what it does in the two modes it can be in eld on or off

i'm auming when it's on it will introduce rear drive if the front slips and use abs to controll as before

then with it off it may remain 2 wheel drive not sure

it's similar to the diff on the sedici 4 wheel drive with electronic rear diff

not sure if there is a front to rear diff also trying to understand how it wouldn't all end up knotting up here

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

So is the cross a 4x4 that can be put into 2x4 at the flick of a switch. I mean the normaly mk3 4x4 does is automatically through the viscouse diff, but on the cross is it enguaged differently?

So then. What are the pro's and cons between the cross and conventional mk3 4x4, no-one has really compaired them yet

Jon.

 

[Alan.D]

Na the Cross does not have a switch from 2-4wd like the classic and is almost the same as the Mk3 4x4 Only difference is the Locking diff which should make harder off road conditions easier.

Problem with most 4wd's is that both front and rear diffs are the same as a 2wd axle if one wheel is up in the air or on a very slippery surface the wheel opposite does nothing and the one in the air spins so even on a 4wd it can become two wheel drive but one wheel spinning on the front axle and one wheel spinning on the rear axle. With the cross mechanism this shouldn't happen as it stops the opposite wheel from spinning by adding some braking force to it

Some 4wd's have a manual locking diff mechanism making it a true 4wd it's simmilar to a limited slip diff only it's not limited cause they are locked in place. The locking system has to be disengaged before going back on road or the diffs will blow appart when trying to turn a corner.

 

[The Sultan]

panda cross

Engine 1.3 Multijet
No. cylinders, arrangement 4, in line, front, transverse
Bore x stroke (mm) 69.6x82
Capacity (cc) 1248
Compression ratio 18 :1
Max power: bhp-EEC (kW-EEC) 70 (51) at rpm 4000
Maximum torque Nm-EEC (Nm-EEC) 14.8 (145) at rpm 1500
Timing (drive) 2 OHC with mechanical tappets
Fuel system common rail multijet direction injection with electronic control, turbo and intercooler
Ignition by compression

TRANSMISSION
4x4 engaged by viscous coupling – two differentials ELD (Electronic Locking Differential) that cuts in below 30 km/h to brake wheels without grip (slipping) and transfer torque to the other wheels on the same axis.
Gears: 1st 3.909:1; 2nd 2.158:1; 3rd 1.345:1; 4th 0.974:1; 5th 0.744:1; Reverse 3.818:1; Final drive ratio 4.062:1

STEERING
Type rack and pinion with electric steering
Turning circle (m) 10.5

BRAKES D (disc)
Front: mm D 257X22 ventilated
Rear: mm D 240x11 (solid)

SUSPENSION
Front independent, MacPherson with lower wishbones anchored to a subframe; stabiliser bar connected to the shock absorber
Rear Independent with tie rods secured to a subframe with stabiliser bar

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase (mm) 2305
Front/rear track (mm) 1387/1382
Length/width/Height (mm) 3581/1611/1643
VDA luggage capacity* (dm3) with one-piece or split rear seat: 200 / 855 (to the roof) with sliding
split rear seat: 230 with seat fully forward / 780 (to the roof)
WHEELS
Tyres Alloy wheels with 175/65-15 tyres (cannot be fitted with chains)

ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT (12V)
Battery capacity (Ah) 50
Alternator: maximum current (A) 75
Alternator with Climate Control: (A) 90

CAPACITIES – WEIGHTS
DIN kerb weight (kg) 1090
Fuel tank capacity (litres) 30
Payload including driver 445
Max towable weight 900

PERFORMANCE
Top speed (km/h) 150
Acceleration (sec): 0 - 100 km/h 18
Incidence angle (standard A) 24°
Exit angle (standard A) 42°
Slope angle (standard A) 24°
Minimum ground clearance
(standard A) 165 mm (under-engine guard)
Climbable gradient 50%

EEC FUEL CONSUMPTION (l/100 km)
Pursuant to EC Directive 1999/100
urban cycle 7.0
extra-urban cycle 4.4
Combined cycle 5.3
Exhaust emissions CO2 (g/km) 141

that explains it italspeed wins again

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Little Pip's list just confirms what's been said all along:

2 differentials - yes, one at the front and one at the back (like all 'mark 3' Panda 4x4s)

ELD - yes, but by putting the brakes on on a wheel that is slipping, and only on the rear, because...

Viscous Coupling between propshaft under car and the rear diff that only 'enagages' the rear drive if the front wheels slip or spin. (so 4x4 is automatically, and variably, selected via the viscous coupling as and when needed)

(ELD can only 'cut in' if its been turned on using the dashboard switch - when on, the switch lights up. Exceed 30km/h (18mph) and it automatically switches off again)

 

[Geordie Amanda]

I have just seen on the Drivethedeal site that they can do a Sedici 1.9 MJ Eleganza for just UNDER £12K…..the same price as a cross without discount!!!!

 

[Alan.D]

There are quite a few little 4x4's available for less than the cross but I would still have the Cross :slayer:

 

[ScoobyChris]

I have just seen on the Drivethedeal site that they can do a Sedici 1.9 MJ Eleganza for just UNDER £12K…..the same price as a cross without discount!!!!

Just get the Panda 100hp and put the £4k difference towards additional running costs! You don't really need a 4x4, or you'd be in a Defender

Chris

 

[udtrev]

Just get the Panda 100hp and put the £4k difference towards additional running costs! You don't really need a 4x4, or you'd be in a Defender

Chris

With that defender does the price include the optional trailer (to carry all the bits that fall off it ? )

 

[306maxi]

I know 0-60 isn't everything, but 18secs is worrying. 13.5 in the MJ is on the slow side already but another 5secs? I just think you are going to have your foot welded to the floor just to try and keep up with traffic.

You should try driving an original 500. Top speed of 61mph on a good day with the win not blowing a headwind otherwise you can forget ever getting to 60

 

[Geordie Amanda]

Just get the Panda 100hp and put the £4k difference towards additional running costs! You don't really need a 4x4, or you'd be in a Defender

Chris

I might need a 4 x 4 for when I am travelling at 3 in the morning in mid winter up in Scotland. My old Scoobys were pretty good for this

i do like the Laura Croft idea of a Defender though

 

[ScoobyChris]

i do like the Laura Croft idea of a Defender though

LARA! Tsk! I have to confess to coming very close to buying one of them but was put off as it was based on a 110 and not a 90, and it also had Hill Descent Control which is not very Land Rovery!

And what are you up to at 3am in mid-winter in Scotland? Old habits die hard, eh

Chris

 

[Geordie Amanda]

LARA! Tsk! I have to confess to coming very close to buying one of them but was put off as it was based on a 110 and not a 90, and it also had Hill Descent Control which is not very Land Rovery!

And what are you up to at 3am in mid-winter in Scotland? Old habits die hard, eh

Chris

I am a sheep pimp for sad Briskodians

Fancy a Swaldale?

Anyhoo, the Road tax on a Defender is soooo much higher than a Cross

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

You don't really need a 4x4, or you'd be in a Defender

The Panda 4x4 is one of the most capable 4x4's available when it comes to angles and that techno mumbo jumbo

Why would you want a chelsea tractor anyways. I've always wanted a Panda 4x4 to wind the farmers at college in their 4x4's up

 

[The Sultan]

The Panda 4x4 is one of the most capable 4x4's available when it comes to angles and that techno mumbo jumbo

Why would you want a chelsea tractor anyways. I've always wanted a Panda 4x4 to wind the farmers at college in their 4x4's up

the old pandas are so good you can dance round a land rover seriously no problem