Technical PANDA 1.1 Brake fluid flush

[dukeboys]

Panda 1.1 with ABS.
Need the chsnge the fluid its been 4 years.
Can it be done safely using the old pump method or best to have it pressure bled?

 

[jrkitching]

Panda 1.1 with ABS.
Need to change the fluid its been 4 years.
Can it be done safely using the old pump method or best to have it pressure bled?

Yes, and yes; but there's a third way that IMO is superior to either of those, and that is to vacuum bleed it. This method is also the least likely to result in brake fluid ending up where it's not wanted.

And do the clutch fluid at the same time. You use the clutch more often than you use the brakes, and there's less total volume of fluid in the system, so it degrades more quickly than the brakes. This could save you the cost and hassle of changing the clutch hydraulics in the future; both master and slave cylinders are well known for premature failure.

 

[Yolanda]

Panda 1.1 with ABS.
Need the chsnge the fluid its been 4 years.
Can it be done safely using the old pump method or best to have it pressure bled?

If you're on your own pressure bleeding is handy. If you've got a helper, in my case the wife to do the pedal it's just as quick as pressure bleeding.
In my opinion.

 

[koalar]

I now use the abs pump and software for most car

Just tell the pump to to push fluid to a corner, and open the corners bleed nipple, very quick and easy but the software isn't cheap



For home on a budget pumping is as good as anything

Remove as much fluid as possible from the reservoir first, chicken baster works well

 

[DaveMcT]

Before you start check the rear brake cylinders are ok. Any leaks mean you will need new ones.

Pull out the brake pads, open bleed nipple, push the piston back, close bleed nipple. Ideally wedge the piston(s) with a wood block so your system flushing pushes less gunk into the calipers. Don't forget to keep the reservoir topped up. Finally, replace the brake pads and press the pedal to push them onto the discs.

 

[jrkitching]

Pull out the brake pads, open bleed nipple, push the piston back, close bleed nipple. Ideally wedge the piston(s) with a wood block so your system flushing pushes less gunk into the calipers.

A good tip. This isn't essential, and I suspect a lot of folks don't bother, but it can help you get a better flush using less fluid.

But if you do, then you also need to clamp the flexible hose on that side first. Otherwise, there's a risk of pushing the dirty fluid in the caliper back through the pipework, and potentially getting it into the ABS modulator, where it will do no good at all.

I'd also use a proper clamp to push back and hold back the pistons; the pistons often have a tendency to creep out on their own if not held securely.

Obviously the same comment applies when you are pushing the pistons back when changing the pads - and a pad change is a good time to do a fluid change while you're down there.

 

[koalar]

All sound over complicated

The original poster only wants to change the brake fluid

It's a 5 minute job, you don't even have to raise the car, although it's a bit of a maul,.and probably easier to remove the wheel

 

[jrkitching]

All sound over complicated

The original poster only wants to change the brake fluid

There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple.

I'd rather use a simple method which changes 90% of the fluid every two years, than a complicated one which changes 95% of it every four.

But some folks might have their reasons for getting the most complete flush possible, especially on a used car with an unknown history, and this in one way of doing that. You're still not going to get a complete change unless you have a way of cycling the ABS modulator, though.

Same goes for the coolant. You'll only get about 80% out unless you have a fancy way of draining the heater circuit, but if you do it regularly, it'll be fine without that.

It's a 5 minute job

Franchised dealers still want to charge north of £100 for it, though!

 

[DaveMcT]

I drain the coolant, refill with plain water, run the engine to temperature and drain. If Im feeling especially noble I'll do it 2x.

Then add the correct amount of coolant concentrate and top up with water.

Brake fluid - I do the 90% option regularly. No problems so far.

 

[Yolanda]

I do it the same as the video, but 10 pumps per wheel using roughly about 1 Ltr of fluid all told.

 

[koalar]

I do it the same as the video, but 10 pumps per wheel using roughly about 1 Ltr of fluid all told.

It's the way it's been done for 100 years and more than adequate

There's no need to reinvent the wheel, pun intended

 

[The Panda Nut]

I drain the coolant, refill with plain water, run the engine to temperature and drain. If Im feeling especially noble I'll do it 2x.

Then add the correct amount of coolant concentrate and top up with water.

Brake fluid - I do the 90% option regularly. No problems so far.

Add the right amoubt of antifreeze and top up Then the strength will be correct. Topp up with correct mix while bleeding. my OCD tendencies are a pain in the **** LOL

 

[Shuggie]

I now use the abs pump and software for most car

Just tell the pump to to push fluid to a corner, and open the corners bleed nipple, very quick and easy but the software isn't cheap



For home on a budget pumping is as good as anything

Remove as much fluid as possible from the reservoir first, chicken baster works well

@koalar what scan tool do you use with the Panda 169?

Multi ECU Scan (MES) allows various ABS module valves to be operated in turn, and I'm wondering if I can accomplish the same ABS brake bleed using MES without spending money on a complex scan tool that on the whole probably does not offer anything truly useful over MES.

Edit: I should add that the MES brake bleed function in 'Adjustments' fails to execute with my car. Most other functions are fine.

 

[koalar]

@koalar what scan tool do you use with the Panda 169?

Multi ECU Scan (MES) allows various ABS module valves to be operated in turn, and I'm wondering if I can accomplish the same ABS brake bleed using MES without spending money on a complex scan tool that on the whole probably does not offer anything truly useful over MES.

Edit: I should add that the MES brake bleed function in 'Adjustments' fails to execute with my car. Most other functions are fine.

I use wurth online world snooper+ for most vehicles

Does most cars I come across, doesn't bleed a Suzuki alto 2009 though, had to go through the whole push pedal processes as I don't own a vacuum hand pump

Got an easzi bleed however it's spelt somewhere, but it's less reliable than pumping the pedal in my opinion

 

[DTanner]

I recently bought a bleeder kit and thought it worked really well on my Panda 2009 1.2. It was ~£33 on Amazon but worked perfectly: Brake Fluid Bleeder Kit
In case the link drops it is a: DAYUAN 3L Hand Brake Fluid Bleeder Bleeding One Man Tool Kit. I think you can find it cheaper elsewhere (but Amazon provided next day).

You put some brake fluid in the main chamber, screw it onto the reservoir, pump it up and check it holds. Then attach the drain bottle to the brake nipple and open it. Really straightforward.

I tried the manual method (pumping the pedal - with a child helping) and it did not work well for me. Additionally, I accidently broke the clutch slave cylinder (doing some other work) and this worked fine to bleed the clutch hydraulics too. £33 was a bit steep for me but I was working alone in poor conditions (light and rain) and this really saved me a lot of pain.

 

[koalar]

@koalar what scan tool do you use with the Panda 169?

Multi ECU Scan (MES) allows various ABS module valves to be operated in turn, and I'm wondering if I can accomplish the same ABS brake bleed using MES without spending money on a complex scan tool that on the whole probably does not offer anything truly useful over MES.

Edit: I should add that the MES brake bleed function in 'Adjustments' fails to execute with my car. Most other functions are fine.

MultiECUscan is great for certain things, but it's often fails for me also so rarely even fire it up

Doesn't have access to long and short fuel trims on some of the panda range depending on date, which makes it less than ideal for engine running issues

Data logging can be patchy, and poor resolution, sometimes hangs, could be my computer or dongle who knows

 

[koalar]

Add the right amoubt of antifreeze and top up Then the strength will be correct. Topp up with correct mix while bleeding. my OCD tendencies are a pain in the **** LOL

Yep add the correct amount of concentrate first and you can't go wrong

 

[Shuggie]

I use wurth online world snooper+ for most vehicles

Does most cars I come across, doesn't bleed a Suzuki alto 2009 though, had to go through the whole push pedal processes as I don't own a vacuum hand pump

Got an easzi bleed however it's spelt somewhere, but it's less reliable than pumping the pedal in my opinion

@koalar is the Wurth diagnostic tool that you use the same as this one https://eshop.wurth.co.uk/Product-c...plus/31082005160307.cyid/3108.cgid/en/GB/GBP/ ?

 

[koalar]

Yes that's similar to the interface I use, it over a grand to buy

I acquired it secondhand at a bargain price some time ago to work on an A-Class and a smart car, as the seller didn't know what it was

There are some on China sites

Some work, some don't, I can't advise as to which sellers are reputable as they are all technically a knock off

It's a multiplexer, meaning it automatically swaps which lines its reading via relays inside

Just plug it into the obd port and it will access all modules without having to swapping and cables

Also has a black box function, leave it plugged in and set it to record, and it will right the data to a SD card

Same interface works perfectly with Delphi DS150E you just have to flash the firmware

There are now much cheaper options available, but I can only recommend what I use personally

 

[Shuggie]

Yes that's similar to the interface I use, it over a grand to buy

I acquired it secondhand at a bargain price some time ago to work on an A-Class and a smart car, as the seller didn't know what it was

There are some on China sites

Some work, some don't, I can't advise as to which sellers are reputable as they are all technically a knock off

It's a multiplexer, meaning it automatically swaps which lines its reading via relays inside

Just plug it into the obd port and it will access all modules without having to swapping and cables

Also has a black box function, leave it plugged in and set it to record, and it will right the data to a SD card

Same interface works perfectly with Delphi DS150E you just have to flash the firmware

There are now much cheaper options available, but I can only recommend what I use personally

Thanks - that model is just over £300 + VAT from Wurth, but maybe less with a 'new customer' discount. So, maybe cheaper than Autel.

Does your Wurth gadget require a separate subscription payment for the software? As far as I can see, it communicates to a PC over Bluetooth