Technical 2010 1.1 panda timing error

[Ashpanda]

Hi guys I wonder if someone can help me with a timing issue I have. I have timed a 1.1 panda 2010 - on the cam pulley I have aligned it with marking at approx 9pm. The crank pulley I just can’t find a marking . I have used the mark on the flywheel at 0 - the car starts but doesn’t drive properly .. can anyone help me please or does anybody of a panda specialist in Leicester or surrounding area who I can take the car to . Thanks in advance guys

 

[koalar]

There isn't one

You either make your own

Or use the locking kit, once it's lost it's the only options as the camshaft pulley is keyless

 

[jrkitching]

You either make your own

Making my own timing marks is my preferred way of doing it, but it has to be done before you remove the old timing belt.

Once it's removed, you'll need to buy the correct locking tools.

I don't recommend starting the engine again until you've timed it correctly.

I've lost track of the number of posts where independent garages have removed the old belt, then looked in vain for timing marks.

 

[Ashpanda]

Making my own timing marks is my preferred way of doing it, but it has to be done before you remove the old timing belt.

Once it's removed, you'll need to buy the correct locking tools.

I don't recommend starting the engine again until you've timed it correctly.

I’ve started the engine.. it revs up fine but as soon as you drive it feels like it’s bogging down.

 

[Ashpanda]

There isn't one

You either make your own

Or use the locking kit, once it's lost it's the only options as the camshaft pulley is keyless

I understand the 3 piece timing tool won’t help as I need an extra piece … do you have a link on Amazon for the correct timing kit ?

 

[koalar]

If it was running fine before and you you haven't undone the centre bolt of the cam pulley only need two bits

You need the third if the pulley been undone

 

[Ashpanda]

If it was running fine before and you you haven't undone the centre bolt of the cam pulley only need two bits

You need the third if the pulley been undone

I got the car as a non runner - it looked like the tensioner had failed .. I timed it with cam pulley mark at 9pm ish … and crank pulley with the mark I thought was correct again at 9pm ish … it ran fine but uphill was bogging a bit … so then retimed it again and now it won’t even drive properly …

 

[koalar]

This kit is what I use, it does everything

There not timed a top dead center but at all pistons at half mast

As these are interference engines,

 

[jrkitching]

As these are interference engines

If you bought this with a snapped belt, retime it using the timing tools and then do a compression test.

Don't try to run the engine again until you've done this, or you could make a bad situation worse.

Fingers crossed for you that nothing has broken internally.

 

[Ashpanda]

If you bought this with a snapped belt, retime it using the timing tools and then do a compression test.

Don't try to run the engine again until you've done this, or you could make a bad situation worse.

Fingers crossed for you that nothing has broken internally.

I thought it wasn’t an interference engine so I thought it would be fine retiming it ..

 

[koalar]

I thought it wasn’t an interference engine so I thought it would be fine retiming it ..

All round oil cap are interference so evo2 onwards

However there only just, depends on carbon build up

RPMS

How far out

But you'll normally get away with it

Especially if you've done the two revolutions by hand with the plugs out first

 

[jrkitching]

On the 1.1 Euro 4, it's very marginal - perhaps the tennis equivalent of hitting the chalk.

Much of the time, you can get away with it; but do a compression test once it's retimed to give yourself a bit more peace of mind.

As I said before, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

[koalar]

I am pretty sure if it's one tooth out the engine starts and runs

But the engine check light comes on

The engine will not rev past 3K rpm or so

At least that's what happens with the 2011 1.2


If it's half a tooth out the engine check light should blink at higher revs

 

[jrkitching]

I am pretty sure if it's one tooth out the engine starts and runs

Running a couple of teeth out isn't going to damage anything.

But IIRC this belt snapped in service in circumstances unknown to the OP. If the engine were running at high rpm under load at the time, it may be a different story.

All the OP can do at this point is retime the belt correctly and then see if all is well. Right now, there's not much point in trying to guess whether the engine has been damaged. It's a possibility, but by no means certain, and no one can say for sure, either way.

 

[koalar]

Running a couple of teeth out isn't going to damage anything.

But IIRC this belt snapped in service in circumstances unknown to the OP. If the engine were running at high rpm under load at the time, it may be a different story.

All the OP can do at this point is retime the belt correctly and then see if all is well. Right now, there's not much point in trying to guess whether the engine has been damaged. It's a possibility, but by no means certain, and no one can say for sure, either way.

I was trying to save money and time

And not have to replace the o rings and gasket

The timing can be checked electronically

It has both a cam and crank sensor

I never tried on the 1.1 but it certainly works fine on the 1.2

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi guys I wonder if someone can help me with a timing issue I have. I have timed a 1.1 panda 2010 - on the cam pulley I have aligned it with marking at approx 9pm. The crank pulley I just can’t find a marking . I have used the mark on the flywheel at 0 - the car starts but doesn’t drive properly .. can anyone help me please or does anybody of a panda specialist in Leicester or surrounding area who I can take the car to . Thanks in advance guys

Good afternoon everyone. I've been following this with great interest and hoping you more knowledgeable folk can enlighten me.

As many on here will know we've had Pandas in the family for years, right back to the first one which was a 750 OHV with points etc. Our present one is a 2010 1.2 eco dynamic. Back in the day when I worked as a mechanic I would run into them occasionally, although not many. So, I'm very familiar with the older 999cc engines with the timing marks on the crank and cam pulleys, we've run several of those. I'm also familiar with the later 1.2 without marks on the cam pulley, but all the engines I've worked on, right back to the Panda Parade in my Avatar picture, have had marks on the crank pulley. I've done just one with the VVT cam pulley which, of course has no cam pulley marks, but again, it had marks on the crank pulley. In fact our present 2010 1.2, although it doesn't have the VVT pulley - it has a solid cast cam pulley - has no marks on the cam pulley. Of course the engines without the cam pulley markings must be timed with the locking tools unless you're certain the cam pulley is locked to the cam in the correct position. (probably best we don't get sidetracked into arguments about that here though) This applies to any with the unmarked cam pulley of course - like our present 2010 1.2. So my question is, did they make some of these 1.1 motors, or any of the FIRE engines, without markings on the crank pulley? I've not come across one yet and it's puzzling me.

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi Jock,
1.1 with "square" black push in oil filler plug .
Cam sprocket keyed to cam and has a timing mark.
Crank sproket has timing mark in addition too the pip to locate the pulley.
Some cam belts have white lines to line up with the timing marks on sprockets-makes life very simple.

Timing marks are not with all pistons same height in bores as with later engines/locking tools


Best
Jack

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi Jock,
1.1 with "square" black push in oil filler plug .
Cam sprocket keyed to cam and has a timing mark.
Crank sproket has timing mark in addition too the pip to locate the pulley.
Some cam belts have white lines to line up with the timing marks on sprockets-makes life very simple.

Timing marks are not with all pistons same height in bores as with later engines/locking tools


Best
Jack

Thanks Jack, that confirms what I thought I knew, Nice to have you confirm it. However what interests me is that posts made here would seem to suggest that some of the 1.1 engines have no marks on the CRANKSHAFT pulley? I've never seen this, even the VVT engines have marks on their crank pulleys although they are not used now (presumably because it's the same pulley which was used on the older engines and it would have cost money to produce a pulley without these marks but which was, in all other respects, identical? I'm just puzzled. Cam pulleys on later engines with no marks, Yes. Even my 2010 engine (which is non VVT) has no marks on it's cam pulley although it's not keyed. Never come across a crank pulley with no marks is all I'm saying and that surprised me.

 

[Ashpanda]

Hi guys & gals… retimed using the tools and it’s running sweet as a nut… had to obviously get a new rocker cover gasket as well. Thanks koalar for your advice !!