Technical Overheating madness
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Technical Overheating madness
Finally got the rail out - the power of the hammer!
The impellor looks ok - see photo.
Should it be able to be turned by hand? Can't seem to.
Is it possibly seized? (No screeching noises in the past)
I want to fix this - don't want to have to borrow the wife's Golf
Should it be able to be turned by hand?
No.
timing belt will stop it from moving (by hand)
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If T/belt was to be disconnected and then turned by hand you should be able to move the pulley and watch the fan work
However - the bearing in the middle don't look great.... rust when there should be anti-oxidising stuff in your anti-freeze
If you turn the engine over by hand you should see it moving Camera phones come in handy here to watch for movement while you crank it
Ziggy
However - the bearing in the middle don't look great.... rust when there should be anti-oxidising stuff in your anti-freeze
If you turn the engine over by hand you should see it moving
Camera phones come in handy here to watch for movement while you crank it Ziggy
sponger
Member
Finally recieved a new seal for the water rail and put it back together.
Also managed to get a compression tester delivered that fits the smaller sized plugs.
Have carried out a compression test to see if its the head gasket.
Does anyone know what the readings should be?
I got 195, 190, 195, 175. Left the tester on for 2 mins after each test and got uniform drop of 20 per cylinder.
Even with these readings, could the head gasket be gone??
It was tested cold.
Also managed to get a compression tester delivered that fits the smaller sized plugs.
Have carried out a compression test to see if its the head gasket.
Does anyone know what the readings should be?
I got 195, 190, 195, 175. Left the tester on for 2 mins after each test and got uniform drop of 20 per cylinder.
Even with these readings, could the head gasket be gone??
It was tested cold.
175 is on the LOW side ..but certainly not awful,
so they tailed off after 2 mins under compression..??
every failure of a FIRE I've done has been a blown " fire-ring" so leaks between 2 x bores = 2 x LOW cylinders
you've Def. NOT got that..,
with your other cooling ??'s I would just get it ( visibly) water-tight and do a few short runs..,
Charlie
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Hmmm 175 was a little lower be t its okay if it runs fine
The next step id go is a coolant pressure test to find out if the cylinder goes into waterlog mode
Ziggy
The next step id go is a coolant pressure test to find out if the cylinder goes into waterlog mode
Ziggy
sponger
Member
Cheers for the replies.
I take it the pressure readings were about right? (the cars done 200,000km)
I was going to re-bleed the system and take it for a tentative run and see if the problem accurs again. As I've done nothing except flush it I expect it will heat up again.
What is the procedure with a pressure test? What tools do I need to source for that?
Thanks
I take it the pressure readings were about right? (the cars done 200,000km)
I was going to re-bleed the system and take it for a tentative run and see if the problem accurs again. As I've done nothing except flush it I expect it will heat up again.
What is the procedure with a pressure test? What tools do I need to source for that?
Thanks
Charlie, exact what happened to old engine being a F.I.R.E engine and blowing between cyl1 and cyl2 I remember figures being low too...
I think it was something like 20psi and 21psi
Now if OP had those readings I'd advice scrappy or new engine!
But 175 ain't a number for raising alarm bells is it? I mean if the engine is happy leave it, a saying don't fix what's not broke! But for your own wellbeing and bank balance keep an eye on that cylinder if it gets worse or better.
Benny
I think it was something like 20psi and 21psi
Now if OP had those readings I'd advice scrappy or new engine!
But 175 ain't a number for raising alarm bells is it? I mean if the engine is happy leave it, a saying don't fix what's not broke! But for your own wellbeing and bank balance keep an eye on that cylinder if it gets worse or better.
Benny
Probably best to find a garage to do it. The cheapest pressure testers out there are probably these and then, I've not checked for the presence of a FIAT fitting!
Wet compression test (add 5mm of oil to the cylinder immediately before you test it) may help track down the cause of the low reading.
Generally overheating = stuck thermostat, air leak, inoperative radiator fan, gunked up radiator.
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Wait general overheating symptoms fingers? Whilst stuck stat being at the top of the chain , but usually if a car has overheated once or more deserves to be examined as you say wet test, I've done this enough times on cars not just fiats. Now as fingers did say take it to garage for that, unless you are real creative and make your own pressure bleeder (some have accomplished this!).
Anyway some other symptoms of overheating = airlock (air in sys) , cracked cylinder head (due to too much overheating, can happen!) , hg has blown yet no visual signs of mixing of coolant 9/10 it happens! Water pump is failing or has seized worth checking, punctured hose or clip, causing air to get in or out so lack of pressure and fluid, etc. Start with basics , then work your way up to big stuff! Heck, grab Haynes and you'll be well on your way!
Benny
Anyway some other symptoms of overheating = airlock (air in sys) , cracked cylinder head (due to too much overheating, can happen!) , hg has blown yet no visual signs of mixing of coolant 9/10 it happens! Water pump is failing or has seized worth checking, punctured hose or clip, causing air to get in or out so lack of pressure and fluid, etc. Start with basics , then work your way up to big stuff! Heck, grab Haynes and you'll be well on your way!
Benny
1st thing iwouid of done is replaced thermostat.
it couid be jammed closed,
But no one listens, peoples like to carry on running it like a empty pan on gas stove,.
it couid be jammed closed,
But no one listens, peoples like to carry on running it like a empty pan on gas stove,.
sponger
Member
Thanks for the continued replies.
Am I right in thinking that if, after the engine has started heating up, the top coolant pipe which has been cold can only recieve hot water once the thermostat has opened?
Because this happens I have presumed that the thermostat is functioning properly - can it still be f..d?
I put it all back together yesterday and started it up. Engine warning light on, but ran ok. Left it idling for 10mins or so to see what happened.
Water was obviously circulating as top and bottom pipes and the radiator heated up. Heater was blowing hot air no problem. BUT.. the fan never kicked in and as it was obviously getting hot I switched it off.
The fan works - disconnected the temp.sensor and fan kicked in, so know the fan itself works. Could the temp.sensor itself be faulty or should I be looking elsewhere?
After it cooled down I checked the coolant level and it was exactly the same as when I started.
Cheers, and a happy new year to you all.
Am I right in thinking that if, after the engine has started heating up, the top coolant pipe which has been cold can only recieve hot water once the thermostat has opened?
Because this happens I have presumed that the thermostat is functioning properly - can it still be f..d?
I put it all back together yesterday and started it up. Engine warning light on, but ran ok. Left it idling for 10mins or so to see what happened.
Water was obviously circulating as top and bottom pipes and the radiator heated up. Heater was blowing hot air no problem. BUT.. the fan never kicked in and as it was obviously getting hot I switched it off.
The fan works - disconnected the temp.sensor and fan kicked in, so know the fan itself works. Could the temp.sensor itself be faulty or should I be looking elsewhere?
After it cooled down I checked the coolant level and it was exactly the same as when I started.
Cheers, and a happy new year to you all.
How high does it get to on temp Gauge
before you have to turn it off,
is any of the Rad hoses preasurising?
is the little hose on metal water rail getting hot ?
Rad fan shouid be kicking in if your temp is high
is temp gauge telling you lies ?
Top hose on my 16v takes about 3-4 mins before it gets hot sometimes longer. (thermostat opening time) thus sat on idle,
(cold british weather,)
before you have to turn it off,
is any of the Rad hoses preasurising?
is the little hose on metal water rail getting hot ?
Rad fan shouid be kicking in if your temp is high
is temp gauge telling you lies ?
Top hose on my 16v takes about 3-4 mins before it gets hot sometimes longer. (thermostat opening time) thus sat on idle,
(cold british weather,)
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sponger
Member
Unfortunately the temp gauge (along with the fuel gauge!) don't work properly. (old display unit gave up the ghost ages ago, luckily? sourced a free 2nd hand replacement with lack of fuel/temp being the price!)
The rad hose are firm when squeezed and yes, little hose on water rail getting hot.
Top hose getting hot in about 3-4mins like you suggest is normal.
If the fan isn't cutting in when it should it could explain the over heat when going slow/in traffic. But when it overheated the first time the fan was on when I got out to check under the bonnet.
Could it be an intermittant temp sensor malfunction?
Should I replace it anyway and see if that's the problem?
Thanks for your patience
(old display unit gave up the ghost ages ago, luckily? sourced a free 2nd hand replacement with lack of fuel/temp being the price!)The rad hose are firm when squeezed and yes, little hose on water rail getting hot.
Top hose getting hot in about 3-4mins like you suggest is normal.
If the fan isn't cutting in when it should it could explain the over heat when going slow/in traffic. But when it overheated the first time the fan was on when I got out to check under the bonnet.
Could it be an intermittant temp sensor malfunction?
Should I replace it anyway and see if that's the problem?
Thanks for your patience
Hard to guess from here now mate,
no temp gauge,
no rad fans kicking in
is it actualy overheating?
back to original complaint coolant overflow from expansion 1st post,
(My Fiat Punto 80HLX 16v(year 2000) was idling a bit roughly when I pulled up after a 50km trip on open roads. Upon popping the bonnet there was a very thin stream of coolant coming out the top of the expansion tank cap.)
is the cap all good?
any hissing noticed from cap?
if so replace cap and see how it goes it may be fubar,
you need temp gauge working mate,
no temp gauge,
no rad fans kicking in
is it actualy overheating?
back to original complaint coolant overflow from expansion 1st post,
(My Fiat Punto 80HLX 16v(year 2000) was idling a bit roughly when I pulled up after a 50km trip on open roads. Upon popping the bonnet there was a very thin stream of coolant coming out the top of the expansion tank cap.)
is the cap all good?
any hissing noticed from cap?
if so replace cap and see how it goes it may be fubar,
you need temp gauge working mate,
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sponger
Member
The cap looks good. No hissing. No coolant leak even when it overheated getting home that first time.
Any idea whether the temp. sensor could be the reason for the fan not kicking in? Am as sure as can be that the temp was getting up when I tested it.
Am sure it was overheating the first time as the red warning light on the temp gauge came on. (i use the reserve light on my fuel tank to know fuel status too).
Is the temp sensor the only part that tells the ecu to turn the fan on? Or does it go through a relay or some other part that I should be checking as well?
Can't see myself being able to get a functioning temp gauge - new unit $NZ1800 (900 quid) and second hand ones hard to source. Am very jealous of the availability and price of spares in the UK!
Any idea whether the temp. sensor could be the reason for the fan not kicking in? Am as sure as can be that the temp was getting up when I tested it.
Am sure it was overheating the first time as the red warning light on the temp gauge came on. (i use the reserve light on my fuel tank to know fuel status too
).Is the temp sensor the only part that tells the ecu to turn the fan on? Or does it go through a relay or some other part that I should be checking as well?
Can't see myself being able to get a functioning temp gauge - new unit $NZ1800 (900 quid) and second hand ones hard to source
. Am very jealous of the availability and price of spares in the UK!The cap looks good. No hissing. No coolant leak even when it overheated getting home that first time.
Any idea whether the temp. sensor could be the reason for the fan not kicking in? Am as sure as can be that the temp was getting up when I tested it.
Am sure it was overheating the first time as the red warning light on the temp gauge came on. (i use the reserve light on my fuel tank to know fuel status too
Is the temp sensor the only part that tells the ecu to turn the fan on? Or does it go through a relay or some other part that I should be checking as well?
Can't see myself being able to get a functioning temp gauge - new unit $NZ1800 (900 quid) and second hand ones hard to source
I was going to query if the RED overtemp. light worked..that's reassuring..!!
could you rig-up an additional temp gauge..??,
the thermostat misbehaving would still be #1 culprit in my book..
however there would be a ?? as to whether the temp sensor is not kicking in fan.., BUT reads for RED overtemp light..,
can anyone advise if they use different inputs:idea:,
Charlie
The cap looks good. No hissing. No coolant leak even when it overheated getting home that first time.
Any idea whether the temp. sensor could be the reason for the fan not kicking in? Am as sure as can be that the temp was getting up when I tested it.
Am sure it was overheating the first time as the red warning light on the temp gauge came on. (i use the reserve light on my fuel tank to know fuel status too
Is the temp sensor the only part that tells the ecu to turn the fan on? Or does it go through a relay or some other part that I should be checking as well?
Can't see myself being able to get a functioning temp gauge - new unit $NZ1800 (900 quid) and second hand ones hard to source
(The cap looks good)
they always do mate, but the cap is not just a cap it has a pressure relief side,
icouid say go buy anew one and try but that wouid be like me telling you to slap a bet on a 3 legged horse. same with changing thermostat.
you need to find someone in motor trade /decent garage and start the with important thing, have car tested for headgasket failiure, to rule that out,
Right I've read thru the posts....
Now, anyone with an ounce of sense would know to test thermostat as its a likely culprit for overheating, been there myself and seen other cars have same problem.
Now depending on how long you've ran whilst overheating you may of done more damage to the engine than you realise. So I would not only test stat but also get it booked in for a compression test, yes everyone's fear!! been there also with a beaut 20psi on cyl1 and 2
Hopefully for you it only needs a new stat and not a new headgasket!
Benny
Now, anyone with an ounce of sense would know to test thermostat as its a likely culprit for overheating, been there myself and seen other cars have same problem.
Now depending on how long you've ran whilst overheating you may of done more damage to the engine than you realise. So I would not only test stat but also get it booked in for a compression test, yes everyone's fear!!
been there also with a beaut 20psi on cyl1 and 2Hopefully for you it only needs a new stat and not a new headgasket!
Benny
sponger
Member
Cheers Benny and oldhammer
Haven't run it long when overheating.
Re tested compression cold and hot figures same as before. 195,190,195 175cold after warmed up 210 on each one.
Even with these figures could the head gasket be gone??
Still doesn't answer why my fan now doesn't cut in when it should although the fan works fine when temp.sensor is removed. Have found an old thread where someone had overheating problems and after going through head gasket change,stat change and temp.sensor change it turned out to be the connector to the tempsensor rather than the sensor itself so am currently looking at that. If this turns out to be the problem I will be very happy
Thanks for continuing to reply to someone who obviously has no idea what he's doing:worship:
Haven't run it long when overheating.
Re tested compression cold and hot figures same as before. 195,190,195 175cold after warmed up 210 on each one.
Even with these figures could the head gasket be gone??
Still doesn't answer why my fan now doesn't cut in when it should although the fan works fine when temp.sensor is removed. Have found an old thread where someone had overheating problems and after going through head gasket change,stat change and temp.sensor change it turned out to be the connector to the tempsensor rather than the sensor itself so am currently looking at that. If this turns out to be the problem I will be very happy
Thanks for continuing to reply to someone who obviously has no idea what he's doing:worship:
