General New timing belt

[JCRR]

Hello all

Could anyone recommend somewhere to get timing belt and water pump replaced on a 2008 1.2 around Newcastle in North East

Don’t think it’s ever been done. Car has 55k

Thanks

 

[varesecrazy]

Its the same kit as the Ford Ka so plenty of possibilities ;-)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

StevenRB45 is up there in the Newcastle area so may be able to advise on reliable garages? However, as mentioned above, the engine is a very common one found not only in Fiat branded vehicles and many garages will be very familiar with it. It's not a particularly difficult belt to do either but make sure they do a complete kit, including the water pump, because the water pump is part of the drive train so if it fails it may well cause the belt to either skip teeth or come off altogether. A 2008 1.2 engine should be non interference so, even if the belt does skip teeth or actually break, all that will happen is the engine will stop. It won't cause internal damage but might be very inconvenient or dangerous depending on where you are at the time! If memory serves me correctly the recommended change interval on these is 5 years or 70,000 miles (whichever comes first) but it's very rare to hear of one failing even when neglected - which I'm not suggesting is a good idea! Our 2010 1.2 Panda had obviously not had one done when we bought it at around 60,000 miles 8 years old and neither had my boy's Punto (1.4 but an almost identical engine). Our Panda had a very slightly noisy water pump bearing but the belt, whilst showing it's age, would have gone on for some time yet. The boy's Punto probably didn't need doing but I changed it as a precaution (newly bought car with little service history) but also because it's the later VVT engine so is an interference type.

Going forward I tend to be conservative about belt change intervals so tend to watch for when either exceeds 4 years or 50,000 miles and with neither car doing high annual mileages that means I'm typically catching them when they go over the 4 years and then looking for a nice dry warm day to do the job - could be 6 months or more down the line from when the 4 years is exceeded.

OOPs! Yours is a 500 isn't it? Sorry, I'm very Panda/Punto orientated. The 500 was always interference I think (jrk will know for sure) so better not to ignore recommended change info.

 

[chris3234]

Your right at the end jock all the engine's fitted to the fiat 500 are interference type engines
Including all version's for the 1.2 fire engine as they had the 69hp euro 5 spec engine from launch

 

[varesecrazy]

Yes Jock
Apparently they are all interference.

@JCRR
Maybe have a look in the GARAGES section..or SEARCH for you location
Eg. 'Wallsend garage' and see if there has been any information posted ..
good or bad

Do let us know what you have found

Charlie

 

[sams500]

Rather than start another thread I am going to buy the parts and get an independent to fit.

Ebay has SKF and Gates of which the former are considerably cheaper, are they OEM quality as I would like the things to last 5 years

thanks

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Rather than start another thread I am going to buy the parts and get an independent to fit.

Ebay has SKF and Gates of which the former are considerably cheaper, are they OEM quality as I would like the things to last 5 years

thanks

SKF are a very well respected manufacturer - one of the world's largest (look it up on wikipedia) - best known for making ball and roller bearings amongst many other "things mechanical". I'd be astonished if their belts were not right up there with the very best. I'm sure you can buy with confidence. My own preference is for Gates because I've fitted many during my life and never known a problem, but I'd not be worried if I had to use an SKF. This may further reassure you with regard to OE quality of product: https://vehicleaftermarket.skf.com/uk/en/product-assortment/timing-system

 

[Ralf S.]

Gates is probably better known and has a good reputation, so it's the "obvious" choice.. which might be contributing to the extra cost of their kits... but SKF is a specialist in bearings based in Sweden and has been going since 1907. Can't be too shonky.


Ralf S.

 

[chris3234]

Bit far away from the op but a fiat dealership near me had a sign or for timing belt one the 1.2 fire engined 500

Timing belt and water pump for £225 which is a fair good price in my eyes certainly for a main dealership
This was fiat cleckheaton

 

[John202020]

Our Fiat dealer was£225 5 years ago but did not include the water pump, now 13 years old

 

[chris3234]

Our Fiat dealer was£225 5 years ago but did not include the water pump, now 13 years old just stupid not to do the pump for the 20mins extra work and £30 or so in parts

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Our Fiat dealer was£225 5 years ago but did not include the water pump, now 13 years old

Yes, that was the sort of money my main dealer was talking about maybe 4 or 5 years ago and that was with out the water pump too. When I asked about the water pump they said they only recommended it after examining it during the procedure and they wouldn't just do one as a matter of course. Ok, you can see when a pump is leaking perhaps with rough bearings, but I defy you to examine a water pump and be able to say, yes, it's going to last another 5 years and 70,000 miles. Just do the pump every time peeps. Sometimes it would have lasted but sometimes it won't and then, at the very least, you've wasted a large labour charge to strip it all down again and at worst you'll have a big bill (on the VVT engines) for a top end overhaul if the valve timing goes out.

Watch out for what they charge to do the pump as part of the entire operation. The only additional work, if you're having a water pump done at the same time, is for undoing 4 bolts/nuts, removing the old pump and cleaning up the mating faces, applying a little sealant and installing the new pump. Not a big job and not a lot of time involved. My main dealer had the timing belt menu priced as one job and the water pump menu priced as another "stand alone" job - most of the labour to do both jobs is the same because dealing with engine mount removal, belt guards, crank pulley, locking up the crank/cam sprockets etc. etc is the same for both jobs. My dealer added both menu prices together to get the cost of doing a water pump at the same time as the cam belt so, in effect, I was paying for most of the labour charge twice! Their quote pretty hefty! The reception "engineer" just couldn't be made to "see" it and I had to stop a passing mechanic to explain it to him!

PS complete kit of belt, tensioner and pump (Gates) for around £70 timing tools off Ebay £40 and a leisurely day doing it. Just one awkward bolt on the underside of the engine mount which is tight to get at on the Pandas but easier on my boy's Punto - and I could use the same timing tools so only the belt/pump kit to buy for his!

 

[TrevC]

Jock, to be fair surely changing the pump also involves draining the system and disposing of the old coolant, re-filling it with fresh coolant and purging all the air.
Not denying that it's still worth doing, but I can understand being charged the cost of the coolant and another half hour labour?
Glad the 2 cars we have now are chain cam, with no known (to me) issues with the chain drive.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Jock, to be fair surely changing the pump also involves draining the system and disposing of the old coolant, re-filling it with fresh coolant and purging all the air.
Not denying that it's still worth doing, but I can understand being charged the cost of the coolant and another half hour labour?
Glad the 2 cars we have now are chain cam, with no known (to me) issues with the chain drive.

Of course you're right Trev. I think most of us would want to pull the bottom hose thus ensuring most of the old coolant is drained. probably then go on to flush out by connecting a mains hose to the top hose and running water through. Personally I like to disconnect the two heater hoses and reverse flush the heater matrix too. Refill with fresh coolant and bleed through. This can take some time I grant you but you can save a shed load of time by simply jacking up the N/S of the car a wee bit, leaving the bottom hose alone and removing the old pump and letting the coolant drain out of the casting. In fact you can be cleaning the old sealant off at the same time, takes maybe 5 minutes because the pump is totally exposed and you've only the four fixings to unscrew? Then let the N/S back down and jack up the O/S, again doesn't need to be by much, which will stop coolant flowing out of the casting so you can dry it off and degrease it before applying some sealant and fitting the new pump. That can't take more than half an hour and probably less for someone who is doing it often. I'd like to leave the sealant to "go off" overnight before topping up with coolant but this "standing time" surely is not subject to a labour charge? Bleeding through is simple if you've done them before. I remember early attempts at bleeding in my youth and the "pickles" I used to get myself in with airlocks but once you've done it many times it usually goes without problems - must say though I'm a bit "scared" of the twin cooling circuits and dual thermostats on my Ibiza.

So I'd argue, but I'm not getting "excited" about this, that unless you specify a complete change of coolant, it's likely that many garages wouldn't do a complete drain down and would then only require a smallish volume of top up coolant to complete the task - Some might even save the old coolant in a clean drain tin and just refill with that?

At the end of the day decisions have to be made though and those who don't know about these things are likely to go for the cheapest option, especially with the lamentable reputation the garage trade has aquired over the years - which I deeply deplore, carry with shame and try to reverse at every opportunity.